I think Region primary staff officers should be full Colonels

[DogCollar]

Reading this thread, I'm still not sure what "problem" the increase in rank solves?  Is it being rewarded better for performing thankless tasks?  If so, then everyone should wear stars!  I don't see a problem with the present system.

[Dragoon]

One could argue that such a system would incentivise folks to do the tough jobs at Region, especially if, like Wing CC's the grade wasn't permanent unless they successfully completed an entire tour of duty in the job.

Of course, it makes the incentive on par with being a Wing CC, which probably ain't good.  Being a Wing CC is a much bigger headache than any Region staff job, IMHO.

[John Bryan]

One could argue that such a system would incentivise folks to do the tough jobs at Region, especially if, like Wing CC's the grade wasn't permanent unless they successfully completed an entire tour of duty in the job.

Of course, it makes the incentive on par with being a Wing CC, which probably ain't good.  Being a Wing CC is a much bigger headache than any Region staff job, IMHO.

Well kind of....read the reg...the Wing Commander's Colonel grade is permanent with the approval of the Region Commander....so it does not matter how long you serve or what good or bad things you did as Wing Commander.....there is no objective standard. It is a subjective choice of the Region Commander.  We have not changed as much as we think. There are a number of former Wing Commanders who reverted because they refused to do things they felt violated the core values and because their choices upset the political agendas of their Region Commanders. Although this is another issue...one of the things CAP should do is allow the BOG to run the corperation and let Wing Commanders run their wings....the role of National Board Members has been the death of a number of good Wing Commanders....I think the National Board is a waste of time and money. I know my wing spends a lot of its funds on travel for the Wing Commander to and from twice a year.

[fireplug]

[]

Well kind of....read the reg...the Wing Commander's Colonel grade is permanent with the approval of the Region Commander....so it does not matter how long you serve or what good or bad things you did as Wing Commander.....there is no objective standard.

CAPR 35-5, par 5c . . .The permanent grade of colonel is contingent upon the satisfactory completion of assignment and must be recommended by the commander of the individual concerned.
Elsewhere it is stated that a Wing commander is on probation for the first year of his/her appointment.

[John Bryan]

"satisfactory completion of assignment and must be recommended by the commander of the individual concerned."

So in other words if you serve less then one year and your region commander thinks you were satisfactory then you stay a Colonel. If you serve 4 years and your region commander thinking you were less then satisfactory then you revert.

Further a region commander can rate a wing commander as satisfactory even if he/she does nothing positive or worse yet is a poor leader whose wing suffers because of the poor leadership. Further a region commander can rate as less then satisfactory a wing commander who has done a good job as wing commander. Why would a region commander do such things....well political reasons. 

No where will you find a standard for what "satisfactory completion of assignment" means.....until we have clear standards for what "satisfactory completion of assignment" mean and until we have real reform in the firing process for wing and region commanders , we will have this problem. Sorry if this seems off topic but it is not if you consider the bigger issue of who deserves the senior CAP grades.

[John Bryan]

One more thing to consider....what if....

Lets say you have wing commander A - during his term the wing is on logistics freeze and won't get off, fails an Air Force SAR Eval and looses the right to fly A and B missions. Membership drops. Units close. You would think that this is not satisfactory, yet he serves 4 years is awarded the DSM and made a Colonel and given a region level directors job.

Wing commander B - During his term the wing gets it's first satisfactory grade on a survey audit in over 10 years, gets equipment to the units, starts working on state missions, charters 16 units (11 squadrons and 5 groups),increases membership by 9% one of the largest rates in the nation and the largest in that region, works with the state to pass laws protecting senior who miss work for mission and cadets who miss school for missions, started a school program, doubled the number of the wing's IC's , and started a glider program....to name a few of the projects. This commander was fired under the probation clause which allows the region commander to fire without cause.  He reverted to Lt Col and returned to the squadron level.

Where is the standard? Where is the value of things like grade and the DSM?

[Dragoon]

If you look at how the overall system works, this makes sense.  It ain't right, but it makes sense.

Since the Region commander isn't held responsible for the performance of his region (he keeps his eagles no matter what), some of them would rather be "good guys" and make friends, rather than the "bad guy" who upholds standards.

The few who do uphold standards are normally considered jerks.  And...you always have a few who set the standards way too high, or value things like loyalty wayyy beyond performance.

In any performance oriented system, there are gonna be some hiccups.  But if the BOSS is held responsible, he's likely to hold his subordinate leaders responsible.  And overall, that would probably be good for CAP.

[Steve Kuddes]

I really beg to differ with some of the opinions that Region staff members don't do anything.  When I was the NCR commander, I inherited a very professional and active Region staff from Rex Glasgow.  I had a very competent Vice and Chief of Staff in Colonel Tom Weston and Colonel Dale Hoium.  We never had to micro manage the staff as they knew what their positions were responsible for and they did their job.

I don't agree that all staff position officer should be Colonels.  Some of the finest officers I had at Region or Nebraska Wing were not field grade officers.  You don't have to be a jerk to get things done either.  Treat people the way you want to be treated, as a person, and that goes a long way.  Tom, Dale and I did just that and we had a very active staff but more importantly it allowed us to do the job we were supposed to do as a Region HQ, to support the Wings of the NCR.

[RiverAux]

Personally, I've had experience as a wing staff officer in two different positions and feel I'm in a pretty good position to judge the level of effort of my regional counterparts and I found them fairly lacking.  That being said, I know of other wing staff officers that haven't really done their job either.  It is because of this sort of inconsistency that I am not at all in favor of assigning ranks based on any level of staff officer duty.  I can go along with it in regards to command positions, though even that should not be immediate upon promotion to a position -- they should have to demonstrate their capability before getting the bump. 

[flyguy06]

Reading this thread, I'm still not sure what "problem" the increase in rank solves?  Is it being rewarded better for performing thankless tasks?  If so, then everyone should wear stars!  I don't see a problem with the present system.

Chaplin,

There is no problem. I was merely suggesting that Region DCS's be upgraded to full Colonel because I think because the area of responsibilty they have (multipler states) they deserve that level of rank. I am a military guy and CAP is a spmewhat military organization, so if we are going to mimic the military. In the military someone at that level of responsibility would be more than just a Lt Col. So, with that being said if we promote the DCS's to full COL, then it falls to reason that we promoter Region CC's to BG. I think they should be BG's either way again because of the levelof responsibility they have. I dont think we should make the Natiopanl Vice CC a MG though. Its perfectly acceptable for Region CC's and the Natioanl Vice CC to be the same rank. We did it back in the day and the military does it as well. In my Army Brigade, The Deputy Commander is the same rank as our Battalion Commanders.

[davidsinn]

One more thing to consider....what if....

Lets say you have wing commander A - during his term the wing is on logistics freeze and won't get off, fails an Air Force SAR Eval and looses the right to fly A and B missions. Membership drops. Units close. You would think that this is not satisfactory, yet he serves 4 years is awarded the DSM and made a Colonel and given a region level directors job.

Wing commander B - During his term the wing gets it's first satisfactory grade on a survey audit in over 10 years, gets equipment to the units, starts working on state missions, charters 16 units (11 squadrons and 5 groups),increases membership by 9% one of the largest rates in the nation and the largest in that region, works with the state to pass laws protecting senior who miss work for mission and cadets who miss school for missions, started a school program, doubled the number of the wing's IC's , and started a glider program....to name a few of the projects. This commander was fired under the probation clause which allows the region commander to fire without cause.  He reverted to Lt Col and returned to the squadron level.

Where is the standard? Where is the value of things like grade and the DSM?

That sounds familiar... I agree with John Bryan. There needs to be reform and standards for these things.