CAP Historical Foundation

Started by Major_Chuck, September 15, 2005, 05:11:59 PM

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Major_Chuck

One of the goals of the CAP Historical Foundation is to build a museum dedicated to our rich history.  That of course takes a lot of money and a lot of time and is  years down the road.

However, they have created a virtual musuem which is rather interesting.

http://www.caphistory.org/index.html

A lot of interesting photos and facts that could add to your internal and external AE programs.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

MIKE

Mike Johnston

Major_Chuck

Quote from: MIKE on September 15, 2005, 05:42:38 PM
I like the toons.  :)

I liked the pictures of crashed aircraft myself.
Chuck Cranford
SGT, TNCO VA OCS
Virginia Army National Guard

JaL5597

I think it has alot of promise.  Right now I am waiting to see what else they have in store before jumping into it head first.

2d Lt Joshua Leslie
CTWG Historian

RiverAux

I've been seeing announcements about this foundation for several years and while the virtual museum is a step forward I'm going to be personally hesitant to send any materials in until their is a nice building to put them in or I'll just deposit them in a local museum where I know they'll stay safe.  I'm just too worried about stuff ending up in someone's attic and being tossed when they die. 

Pylon

As a guy with a degree in history, I'd love to see Civil Air Patrol's rich history established well in a museum.  Even if we were not able to have our own museum at first, a dedicated section of an existing aviation or history museum would be a great start.

I think our collective history is one worth telling and worth preserving.  Many organizations have been around for a while, but have certainly not had the accomplishments, achievements, progress, growth, and change that Civil Air Patrol has seen. 

If CAP set aside a fund specifically for establishing a permanent CAP museum, I'd give to that.  It certainly has promise.
Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP

BillB

#6
An aviation museum is being started at teh Keystone Heights, FL Airport. The person organizing the museum also happens to be a CAP Historical Officer, and flys an L-4 that probably was used by CAP in the late 40's. She has already requested some uniforms from 1943, and 46 that I've "reconstructed". So there will be a portion of the museum dedicated to CAP.
And doesn't the Air Force Muserum has a section for CAP?  It did last time I was there in the 1970's.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

RiverAux

Although I applaud the effort in FL and don't want to disparage them, but these sorts of small scale museums are not to be trusted as permanent repositories for historical records and materials.  Not because their intentions are bad its just that to do it right takes a lot of money and these sorts of places are often on the ragged edge. 

Frankly, even if CAP had a museum I'd still be hesitant to donate materials there when compared to an AF museum or historical library that you can figure will be around for a very long time. 

Chappie

Quote from: JaL5597 on September 15, 2005, 08:00:23 PM
I think it has alot of promise.  Right now I am waiting to see what else they have in store before jumping into it head first.

2d Lt Joshua Leslie
CTWG Historian

The featured guest speaker at the recent CAWG Conference was Drew Steketee.  He was outstanding, informational, and inspirational.  CAP will benefit from the Historical Foundation.
Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)

James Shaw

I have been doing alot of research about the different levels of museum participation and costs. It does not matter who has the museum there are some basic things that are going to stand true for all of them. The #1 thing to remember is that it cost alot of money to maintain a museum both in cyberspace and in a building. Most people only think about the costs associated with starting but what may be forgetting some. I have listed a few to think about. 1) How are the pieces for the museum going to be accquired (ebay, donation, estate sales, members). 2) Where are they going to be stored for the best preservation, you can't store them in the attic or in a wal-mart plastci tote and expect them to stay preserved for an extended time. Who is going to be responsible for them a single person or a group. Who makes the decisions as to where they are secured. 3) Who will maintain them. Once you have them and they are stored who will pay for the cost of the upkeep. 4) How and where are they going to be dsiplayed?, who will take them?, who will pay for there transporation? There are alot of factors to consider. Smaller displays as BillB mentioned are a great way to get those pieces out in the public eye (but someone still has to pay for the). The CAP has a VERY LARGE amount of CAP related items. When I say alot I mean tens of thousands of items from uniforms to books and patches and all of these items have to be maintained and tracked. These are pieces that have to be accounted for individually on a yearly basis. This is just a snap shot of some things to consider. Having said that I now have some suggestions. 1st If you are really interested in the preservation of CAP history than you can donate those items to the CAP. I can attest to the dedication of correct preservation and display of our National Collection by the National Curator Lt. Col. Bill Schell. He travels thousands of miles each year to share with all CAP members. I tell people he has OCD for CAP history! You can also send these items to other members of the Historical Committee and they will be properly taken care of them and be shown at every opportunity. I receive about 1 package a week from members of CAP related items. If I have duplicates then I forward them to other historians. Another thing is to support the Historical Foundation at the website mentioned. Drew does a great job at preserving our history, but it still cost money. The website alone was I believe over $20K. Be careful as to who you donate items or money to. There should be historians in every squadron, but squadron level historians may not have the finincial means to support proper storgae or display. You also have regional historians who may have some limited funding but most of that is used for conferences and then you have the National Level Historians and the Historical Foundation. There are five National Level Historians 1-National Historian Col. Len Blascovich 2-Assistant National Historian Major Jim Shaw (ME) 3-National Curator Lt. Col. Bill Schell and two archivists. Lt. Col's Pogorzelski and Oxling, the Historical Foundation is not part of CAP it is a seperate entity that is supported by and support CAP and is headed by Drew Steketee (who is having difficuties finding a place to store some of his items accquired). Having said all of that we as historians are always trying to figure out ways to share our history with others be it via Museums, CyberSpace, or a traveling Exhibit. We cannot share what we dont have and waiting for the perfect opportunity will just drive you mad. The historical budget has been cut just like the rest of CAP, Museums want us to PAY for space and preservation to the tune of $5000 for a 4X6 Display every year. So the more we show the more we pay. If you go to the CAP history website and look under patrons you will find my name as a major contributor of alot of the photos. These photos are all items in my personal collection which takes up a 6X16 foot  closet in my office. There are hundreds of manuals and posters that makeup this collection and only a small percentage could be put on the web page due to the cost associated. If you would like more specific information about preservation, donation or any CAP history related subject please shoot me an email and I will help as best as I can or send you to someone who can. I am currently working on a few projects that will help bring more CAP history to our members. A CAP CD called Music and Memories, this has 49 tracks of CAP related media from the 1940's through the 1960's, The long awaited Audio-Book Version of the book Flying Minute Men by Robert E. Neprud in it's entirety and many other smaller items.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

RiverAux

caphistorian, thanks for your comments.  You bring up a lot of the things I have concerns about with smaller museums.  As you seem to be pretty familiar with the national operation, perhaps you can tell us a little about where these materials are being stored and under what conditions now. 

DNall

Obviously currently held items have to be preserved as best as possible, and clearly we don't need to be collecting lots of extra stuff until things are settled. I don't particularly like the indea of a stand alone museum. As was stated, they cost a lot to maintain & support. I tend to think a facility co-located at Maxwell, or with the AF museum would be the best route. Obviously that cuts cost significantly as rent & utilities are covered, and you get a boost from additional traffic. Otherwsie museums don't stay in business by the gate, but rather by a support foundation. I don't know that there's money enough to create a foundation, but certainly some federal & dues support could be swung to the cause, as could an independent foundation supported by the AFA, EAA, & some similiar association of past/present CAP members.

Lancer

I just so happened to be browsing Ebay this afternoon and found this bit of information, quoted below.  Lt Col Schell, Jr is Buying up all kinds of goodies.

Peel, Eat, Enjoy...

Quote
Civil Air Patrol History Preserved For Tomorrow
...............By YOU Today

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"CAPARCHIVES" is the eBay identification name for the Civil Air Patrol National Curator, a special assistant to Maj. Gen. Anthony J. Pineda, C.A.P. National Commander, charged with the research, acquisition, preservation and display of items related to Civil Air Patrol's history. All Civil Air Patrol items purchased by "CAPARCHIVES" are purchased for the National Civil Air Patrol Historical Archives, paid for from Civil Air Patrol funds, and become the property of Civil Air Patrol National Headquarters.

Unfortunately, with the movement of its headquarters from site to site following the end of World War II, much of CAP's early history was either lost or disposed of. A major effort is now being undertaken to recover that history and make it available to the membership and the general public. At the same time an active search is underway to select a site for a National Civil Air Patrol Museum. When the CAP historical program realizes its goal of a National museum, the archives will be available to all for research and display. Be aware that there is a web page calling itself the National Civil Air Patrol Museum. This is the Civil Air Patrol Historical Foundation, a seperate entity which, while supporting CAP history, is NOT a part of Civil Air Patrol. Only items purchased for or donated to the Civil Air Patrol archives actually become CAP property destined for the actual National CAP Museum.

Until that time, a portion of the archives is made available for display annually at Civil Air Patrol National Boards, Region and Wing conferences and C.A.P. special activities. Portions of the historic collection have been seen all over the nation and will be on display at the August 2007 C.A.P. National Board in Atlanta, Georgia.

The cooperation of the CAP membership and the general public is requested. The archives presently contain thousands of insignia items and more than 80 historic uniforms, including those of past national commanders, as well as all types of Civil Air Patrol memorabilia. There are over 1,000 unit and special activity patches in the archives. If you are a C.A.P. member, please insure that your unit is represented in the headquarter's collection by donating your patch today. If you were an early member of CAP please donate now or make provisions in your will for your CAP items and early photographs to go to Civil Air Patrol. Your name will be added to the growing list of donors that accompanies the display.

The following items are sought for the national C.A.P. archives either by donation, purchase or trade:

"OTC" shoulder patch (a WW II patch with an "OTC" tab at the bottom.)
Mechanic, WW II, gold embroidered on a black square.
Photographer, WW II, gold on black square (with a base on the camara).
"USA-IACE," white embroidered on a black rectangular patch.
Southwest Region patch with red dot in Oklahoma.
Unit or special activity patches, caps, T-shirts, coffee mugs and coins.
Obsolete flags and guidons.
Arm bands.
Early photographs, posters, orders and regulations.
Expired state C.A.P. license tags.
(Civil Air Patrol is a non-profit organization. Donations are deeply appreciated and are tax deductible.)
For questions regarding Civil Air Patrol insignia and uniforms, or for donations, trades or sales, contact the National Curator at the e-mail address below.

A. William Schell, Jr., Lt Col, CAP *
National Curator, HQ CAP
Phone: (410) 273-6610
E-mail: awmschell@verizon.net

* Reference: "CIVIL AIR PATROL AND CAP-USAF KEY PERSONNEL DIRECTORY"

Interesting, no?  ;D

RiverAux

Frankly, I would have a hard time caring less about collecting old CAP patches.  How about a real program to collect documentary history of CAP?  Phots and patches are fun things to put in a museum, but you need paperwork to actually study the history of the organization. 

James Shaw

The thing to remember with caparchives is that he is purchasing for the CAP National Collection. And as a matter of courtesy we ask that no one bid against him on these items. There are a couple of different ways at looking at patch and other uniform collection. Each patch and uniform tells a story about the people who wear it. Most of the patches were produced by various companies for the same patch. The design of the patch tells a story and even the cloth used does the same. I have a large collection of both uniform related items and books. I have leaned toward collecting the books more than the other. I now have a reference library of both fiction and non-fiction books related to CAP that fills 2  six foot long shelves in my house. There are also books available that have been written by CAP members that contain alot of history. I will try to put a list together and publish them. Just as  a word up I am sure that most if not all have heard or know about the book Flying Minute Men, The Story of the Civil Air Patrol by Robert E. Neprud. This is considered the definitive history of the early days of CAP and its founding and will be available as an audio-book son. To repeat The Flying Minute Men has been made into a Audio-Book!! How do you like the sounds of that. It will be a few more months until it is released or available, but I think it is a great idea.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

JohnKachenmeister

I'm glad SOMEBODY is keeping track of our history.  Frankly, we have a unique history, and I'm very surprised that nobody has ever made a movie about us.

I hope they don't plan to put the National Museum in Alabama.  Nothing against Alabama, I was posted there and I loved it, but I think we should have it here in Florida.  There aren't a lot of tourists looking for things to do in Alabama.

If not Florida, in New York, Washington DC, some other location where tourists gather, or as an integral part of the Air Force Museum in Dayton.
Another former CAP officer

RiverAux

I have seen or heard no evidence that they are actually doing much to collect actual historical material.  Like I said, patches make a fine museum display.  Getting the photos is good too, but how about something a historian might actually want to use?  Consider the fact that most CAP records are thrown out fairly quickly.  I think mission records go after 3 or 4 years. 

James Shaw

There is a continually growing effort to accquire and collect CAP history. The thing to remember is that it all cost money to get these items. The Historical Committee is like any other part of CAP. When the budet is low it is low for everyone. The CAP Historical Budget was cut 35% this past year. We historians are trying to bring as much history to the members as we can...there again money and time are the two biggest factors. No one or single type of historical artifact is the "holy grail" of CAP collectors. Research is done with all types of items and books. History is everywhere you look. Just because you may not physically see a Smithsonian size exhibit of CAP material does not mean it doesnt exist. I know of thousands of pieces in the National Collection that have not been seen in years. Alot of this is due to the fact that we do want to preserve it. Just as a short example....Every time you open and vintage book or magazine you leave oil from your fingers on that page. This causes a breakdown of the page. We preserve and store so that we will have these items in the future. If you want to see a historical display than start with the local historian and work your way up until you can make some arrangments. I have taken my collection to a fw shows in my area. As far as a museum is concerned it would be nice to have a physical place to go and look........however the money is not there to start. The likely place to have one would be Washington DC area or atleast that is where the Historical Committee has talked about.
Jim Shaw
USN: 1987-1992
GANG: 1996-1998
CAP:2000 - Current
USCGA:2018 - Current
SGAUS: 2017 - Current

JohnKachenmeister

CAPHISTORIAN:

Washington DC would be a fine location for a physical museum of the CAP, and it would attract to its ceremonial opening enough officials to make the opening a newsworthy event.

My thoughts, however, were along the lines of establishing a museum on an airport which was used by the CAP for coastal patrol.  We just lost a New Jersey airport that was used as a base, but we still have Lantana, Florida which I think is now called North Palm Beach County Airport (F45).
Another former CAP officer

RiverAux

The latest Volunteer says that they have recently acquired the complete records of one of the CAP Coastal Patrol bases.  This is an incredible find and I'll give them credit on this one.  Of course the article about this immediately launches into a plea for old CAP patches (ho hum...).  How about a plea for old Wing histories?