Lack of ES

[sq201wrestler]

Does anyone else have a squadron with a non existant ES program?

[Cmdbuddy]

I'm not currently in a squadron, but this used to be the case with my old squadron.  What are you doing to fix the problem?

[JaL5597]

I agree with C/Lt Col Ducote.

At the same time, have you asked why your squadron does not do ES?  Its not something that all squadrons are required to do.  Maybe its time to send a question up the chain of command and see what the Senior Staff has to say.

[Yoda]

We have an ES program at group level, but not really at the squadron level.  We do have an ES officer now, however, and he is trying to reestablish the program.  I wish him the best of luck with it, but ES is much different in an urban enviroment than it is in the places most people consider to be "ES areas".

[SarDragon]

I think it's a lot harder to get/keep going a good ES program in a cadet sq. The senior staff required goes beyond the needs of a cadet only unit.

[CAPSGT]

When I first joined CAP my squadron had a non-existent ES program.  After about 3 years, we finally got one going and became the top Ground Team squadron in the wing.  It really comes down to a desire and know-how of the squadron members to get a program going.  We found a group of people who were really interested in ES and did whatever it took to get us up and running.

We started out with help from another squadron in our group to help train some of our members, and paired up with other squadrons on SAREXes in the beginning.  Once we got enough qualified members of our own, we did our own in house training and build up an impressive ES force (we had as many as 5 Ground Team Leaders in our squadron at one point).

You could send people to NESA to get them qualified, but I found that having all of us go through our training togethor really brought us togethor as a team (or, "Crew", as we called ourselves).

It does take a lot of SM support though, because without them you've got no GT drivers and you must have a SM on all GTs.  We were lucky and had several Seniors get involved.  We could pretty much always count on one of them to make it to a mission.

[Horn229]

My squadron also has a non-existant ES program, the same could probably be said for the cadet program as well. We just moved our squadron to a new location, and we've got a great area for ES training, so hopefully over the next few months, we'll have everyone with SQTR for GTM-3 with the first 11 tasks signed off.

[Pylon]

My squadron also has a non-existant ES program, the same could probably be said for the cadet program as well. We just moved our squadron to a new location, and we've got a great area for ES training, so hopefully over the next few months, we'll have everyone with SQTR for GTM-3 with the first 11 tasks signed off.

That's very ambitious!  About how many members are in your unit, if you don't mind me asking?  Are you planning on weekend traning seminars/activities in order to do the training?

I'm just curious because my unit has been lacking in the Emergency Services department, in both training and participation, for a long time.  It has recently acquired a transfer member who has taken on the position of ES Officer, and I'm curious as to how other squadrons are shaping their training.

[Horn229]

That's very ambitious!  About how many members are in your unit, if you don't mind me asking?  Are you planning on weekend training seminars/activities in order to do the training?

I'm just curious because my unit has been lacking in the Emergency Services department, in both training and participation, for a long time.  It has recently acquired a transfer member who has taken on the position of ES Officer, and I'm curious as to how other squadrons are shaping their training.

I'd like to do it all on meeting nights, and if we need to, some can be done on Saturday's. I've given everyone the website address to take the Gen ES test, so once that is done, I can start teaching them the material. The first 11 tasks are pretty basic stuff, so I can give them a short class on the topic, then go out to the woods behind our squadron and make them demonstrate what I've just taught them.

IIRC, four of the tasks are dealing with medic type stuff, and my mother is a nurse so she should be able to teach those tasks. After that's done, they'll have to memorize the signs of the hot/cold weather injuries and recite them back. As I think about it, It might be best of they memorize over the following week, and recite them at the next meeting to guarantee that they actually know the stuff, and aren't just memorizing it for the task sign off.

Oh, and we only have about 7-10 active members, that's partly why it's so feasible for us to get it all done is such a short period of time.

[CAPSGT]

A lot of the tasks are very doable at meetings.  That's how I got most of my signoffs for GTM (back when the current national system was just a MDWG thing).  I made a point to learn at least 2 or 3 before every meeting and had my DCC, who was a GTL (Lt Col Knowles of CS fame), test me on them.  Most of our members who were trying to get qualified at the same time did the same thing.

[dark_side#2]

My squadron was almost 100% ES about 2 or 3 years ago but we leveled it out farely well.
And CAPSGT is right, a lot of tasks are doable at meetings.  We give one meeting a month mostly to ES ( same with AE ) then sign people off at our FTXs.

[FL169ESO]

Hi Everybody,
The biggest challenge I've come across is finding people who are qualified to actually do the signing off of the SQTRs.  I'm an Army Medic, so I have training in almost all of the GTM and GTL tasks, but my squadron doesn't have anyone qualified to sign me, or anyone else off on the tasks.  I have some people from other squadrons in the group willing to help, but it makes logistics difficult.  Signing off a couple tasks each week isn't feasible, so I'm developing a weekend mini-ground team academy.  Anybody else have input?

[Matt]

Last I checked the Squadron Commander can sign tasks off with the exception (unless they're qualified) for Incident Commander and Agency Liason.  In your case, your CC should be able to sign you off if (s)he feels that you have completed a task.

[Pace]

Last I checked the Squadron Commander can sign tasks off with the exception (unless they're qualified) for Incident Commander and Agency Liason.  In your case, your CC should be able to sign you off if (s)he feels that you have completed a task.

Now when you say "checked," do you mean checked the regs (specifically CAPR 60-3) or do you mean you're going off what someone told you?  Check out CAPR 60-3, 2-2.  I checked, and you're wing doesn't have a supplement to 60-3 on its website.  Maybe your region has a supplement that I can't find.

[Matt]

Both actually...  I just rechecked it and found where I was mistaken: Commander's approve GES and SQTR (old 101T) and the Wing CC or designee signs off on the full qual.  Also, you are correct in saying there is no Wing Supp. nor Region that I can find either (Note: GLR site is a pain to navigate on).

As for GT training weekend, great idea, but they are a lot of work at one time and will cause some headaches, but they're well worth it if the knowledge retained is good enough.

Horn229 had a pretty good outline for a weekend posted (http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=134.0) may want to check it out if you run low on ideas.

[FL169ESO]

Here's the part that's getting me on the SQTR's.  The squadron CC can sign them all day long, but for the 101 card, it still has to go to wing.  I doubt anyone there will sign off on it unless the tasks are signed off by an authorized supervisor.  Additionally the SQTRs have to be included as "supporting documentation" on the CAPF 100 application for 101 card.  In other words, I don't think he can sign off completed tasks for a rating he's not qualified in, but can sign off that the tasks were checked by an authorized supervisor.  Clear as mud?  Hopefully I'm wrong. 

[Horn229]

Bingo. The Commander cannot sign off tasks for a specialty they're not qualified in. The only thing they can sign in on those 3 lines that are reserved for the Unit/Wing/Region CC/Authorized Designee. You'll need to find someone with at least the same level qualification that you're going for or higher, who also has SET with the approval from Wing.

If you can't find anyone, I'd suggest finding out if there's a Wing or Region SAR School. If not, You could always go to NGSAR. The basic course will get you the tasks signed off for GTM Level 3, the advanced course will get you the tasks for GTM level's 2 and 1, and the Team Leader Course will get you the tasks for GTL.

[FL169ESO]

Hey folks,
FYI Hawk Mountain gives grads an SQTR for GTM, signed by the school director, including two missions.  The only problem I'm seeing is, the people coming back don't realize what it is and "file it" somewhere, forgetting about it.  So all they really need to do is make sure their CC signs the SQTR,  fill out the CAPF 100 and submit it to wing.  I don't know if my guys weren't instructed of that, or if they "missed" it somehow, but squadron staff people definitely need to be aware of this as these folks may be untapped resources.

[CAPRANGER]

Hey there.  I can fully understand where you are coming from with a non-existent program.  Back when I started CAP, our squadron had nothing.  We didn't have anything that stood out above anything else in the squadron.  The 103rd Squadron was good in ES, another in Color Guard, we didn't know where to go.  What we did was that year, two cadets from the squadron went to an ES school, Hawk Mountain, myself and the commander at the time.  We came back as qualified GTM's, and then furthered our training to the GTL level via another SAR school.  Upon these completions, we held many squadron weekend training events, and within 2-3 months, our squadron was fully qualified as GTM or higher, and now everyone is mission ready.  It's a thought, although there are many different ways to go about it.  Most importantly, you need a least one senior member to supervise, not nessacarily to train, although if they are qualified they can, just need at least one committed senior.  Hope it helps.

[flyguy06]

My Squadron does not have an ES propram,and its not really an issue. We have mostly pilots in our unit and all they want to do is fly. We dont have anyone except maybe me thats interested in going out to the woods and looking for missing airplanes. They also dont want to put inthe time to get Mission pilot or observer or scanner qualified either. SO, since we have no adults that want to do that, we cant force them to.

I am a former GTLand mission obv. I plan to get current oneday when I have the time., but I train and go out with other units. Thats fine. In my community, the goal is to promote aviation and that is what we do. We focus on aviation and the cadet program. I want to start a sort f localflight encampment. A week long event inthe summer. I just need to recruit some more CFI's