Is 'Day of Infamy' fading from our memories?

Started by Eclipse, December 07, 2007, 08:00:55 PM

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JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: Eclipse on December 08, 2007, 07:38:40 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 08, 2007, 03:54:06 AM
I'd like to see a movie about the succesful operation to insert SF troops in with the Northern Alliance when they ran the Taliban out of town.  How about a movie about the FBI stopping a terrorist attack (Which has happened several times) or the Battle of Fallujah where the Marines had to fight house-to-house?

You will, just give it a little time.

Since we have real-time video every day (unlike WWII), we don't need propaganda films from Hollywood to keep us fired.  These days I think its appropriate to let things cool a bit and get the full story before rolling cameras.

I wish I could share your optimism.

After 7 December 1941, not only did Hollywood begin cranking out films which glorified service, Hollywood celebrities enlisted to serve.  Of course, there were exceptions. 

Jimmy Stewart did not enlist after Dec. 7th, since he was already serving as an aviation cadet.  Ronald Reagan also avoided the recruiting office, being too busy mobilizing with his National Guard unit.  Reagan, a 1st Lieutenant of Cavalry in the California National Guard was the only Hollywood actor who held a commission on Dec. 7th 1941.

Now, Hollywood makes it a point to denigrate the efforts of G.I.'s and obliquly criticize any effort to prosecute a war against the enemy.  They refuse to demonize the enemy, and cannot make movies that celebrate the sacrifice of service, since they have no frome of reference to the honor of national service.

The USO can't find enough entertainers to visit troops in the field.

Another poster called me a "Madman" for believing this, but I have quit going to movies after Mel Gibson's movie about Vietnam, "We Were Soldiers."
Another former CAP officer

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 08, 2007, 07:17:51 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 08, 2007, 03:54:06 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 07, 2007, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 07, 2007, 10:32:13 PM
Now, Hollywood makes anti-American films depicting the terrorists as heroes and G.I.'s as villains

Name one that has come out in recent years. I cannot think of a SINGLE movie that did that.

I can name a lot of movies that portray terrorists as the villains, and GI's as the heroes, Blackhawk Down, for example.

"Redacted"

Also, some movie with the uber-leftists Robert Redford and Tom Cruise, I forget the name of it.

"Munich" that depicted the Black September terrorists that attacked the Olympics in 1972 as heroes and ultimately victims of the evil Israeli Mossad.

Even Blackhawk down and United 93, which were sympathetic to Americans, chose to emphasize American battle losses.  I'd like to see a movie about the succesful operation to insert SF troops in with the Northern Alliance when they ran the Taliban out of town.  How about a movie about the FBI stopping a terrorist attack (Which has happened several times) or the Battle of Fallujah where the Marines had to fight house-to-house?

As far as I know, that new Cruise and Redford movie depicts a senator as a villain, not a single US G.I. The GIs are depicted as victims of an uncaring government fighting to stay alive, or at least that is what I gather from the previews.

Munich is about Moussad, not US GIs, fail again. Not to mention the fact that the movie most definitely did not depict the terrorist as heroes. Not in the *expletive* least. The movie was by Spielberg, a Jew.

Recognizing US casualties that happened is making GIs villains? I suppose you would prefer we lie, and say no one died. Oh yeah, you didn't seem to notice the dead Somalis on every street corner. If anything emphasizing the emotion regarding the American's dying was to make the point that it is tragic when Americans die. You don't think it is sad when a GI dies? Have you had any family die in war? My cousin, an LTC in the Marines and a Cobra pilot, died in Iraq, I went to a funeral where I was brought to tears, and have two young cousins growing up without a father. It is tragic when a GI dies.

I'm getting the point of saying you are nearing madness.

Well, madness you say...

Then I say that you should go to the video store and rent "Wake Island," the first film made during World War II that depicted American troops in battle.  Eventually, we lost Wake Island, just as we lost Mogadishu, but the American Marines were presented in a much more favorable light than the Rangers in Black Hawk Down.  Then watch "Air Force," "30 Seconds Over Tokyo," "Guadalcanal Diary," and "The Purple Heart," and compare them to the garbage Hollywood puts out today.  These movies made during World War II were designed to keep UP the morale on the home front, encourage service, and validate American values. 

Today, Hollywood makes movies designed to scoff at our values, make us consider that the most barbaric enemy that the United States has ever faced may have some good points after all, and to diminish confidence in our leaders, including our military officers.
Another former CAP officer

Cobra1597

#42
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 09, 2007, 12:53:05 PM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 08, 2007, 07:17:51 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 08, 2007, 03:54:06 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 07, 2007, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 07, 2007, 10:32:13 PM
Now, Hollywood makes anti-American films depicting the terrorists as heroes and G.I.'s as villains

Name one that has come out in recent years. I cannot think of a SINGLE movie that did that.

I can name a lot of movies that portray terrorists as the villains, and GI's as the heroes, Blackhawk Down, for example.

"Redacted"

Also, some movie with the uber-leftists Robert Redford and Tom Cruise, I forget the name of it.

"Munich" that depicted the Black September terrorists that attacked the Olympics in 1972 as heroes and ultimately victims of the evil Israeli Mossad.

Even Blackhawk down and United 93, which were sympathetic to Americans, chose to emphasize American battle losses.  I'd like to see a movie about the succesful operation to insert SF troops in with the Northern Alliance when they ran the Taliban out of town.  How about a movie about the FBI stopping a terrorist attack (Which has happened several times) or the Battle of Fallujah where the Marines had to fight house-to-house?

As far as I know, that new Cruise and Redford movie depicts a senator as a villain, not a single US G.I. The GIs are depicted as victims of an uncaring government fighting to stay alive, or at least that is what I gather from the previews.

Munich is about Moussad, not US GIs, fail again. Not to mention the fact that the movie most definitely did not depict the terrorist as heroes. Not in the *expletive* least. The movie was by Spielberg, a Jew.

Recognizing US casualties that happened is making GIs villains? I suppose you would prefer we lie, and say no one died. Oh yeah, you didn't seem to notice the dead Somalis on every street corner. If anything emphasizing the emotion regarding the American's dying was to make the point that it is tragic when Americans die. You don't think it is sad when a GI dies? Have you had any family die in war? My cousin, an LTC in the Marines and a Cobra pilot, died in Iraq, I went to a funeral where I was brought to tears, and have two young cousins growing up without a father. It is tragic when a GI dies.

I'm getting the point of saying you are nearing madness.

Well, madness you say...

Then I say that you should go to the video store and rent "Wake Island," the first film made during World War II that depicted American troops in battle.  Eventually, we lost Wake Island, just as we lost Mogadishu, but the American Marines were presented in a much more favorable light than the Rangers in Black Hawk Down.  Then watch "Air Force," "30 Seconds Over Tokyo," "Guadalcanal Diary," and "The Purple Heart," and compare them to the garbage Hollywood puts out today.  These movies made during World War II were designed to keep UP the morale on the home front, encourage service, and validate American values. 

Today, Hollywood makes movies designed to scoff at our values, make us consider that the most barbaric enemy that the United States has ever faced may have some good points after all, and to diminish confidence in our leaders, including our military officers.

Yes, nearing madness. You prefer propaganda to reality. A reality that actually makes one care MORE about GIs, since it makes them out to be human. Black Hawk Down for the vast majority did NOT make the GIs out to be negative, not the least.

You accuse Hollywood of making terrorists into heroes, and GIs into villains. When you can't back up some evil anti-American agenda in Hollywood, you fall back onto not liking that soldiers are actually real people, and not depicted in the style of Westerns and such.

Continue this if you want, but it is plain to me that you just want to hate Hollywood for the sake of hating Hollywood, so I won't be replying anymore.

I leave you with a dancing Yoda.
Harrison Ingraham, Capt, CAP
MAWG External Aerospace Education Officer, ADY
Spaatz #1597

BillB

I tend to agree with John that Hollywood no longer presents the US armed forces in a positive light. I taught a Community College course in Film History and Aesthetics for three years and often used the WW II films to show both the propaganda and actuality of the military. For pure propaganda the film North Star was shown to students so they could see how films were used to glorify the Solviet Army and had no other value except the propaganda. Even the film stars said after the war the film was worthless.
But at the same time, The United States has not won a war since 1945. And I know I'll disagree with John on this, but since 9/11 we are still not at war. In a fight yes, but only Congress has the authority under the Constitution to declare war, and there has been no Declaration of War issued. It may be better defines as a "Battle against Terrorism" than a war. But still Hollywood doesn't have any battles to depict US armed forces winning battles.
Gil Robb Wilson # 19
Gil Robb Wilson # 104

RiverAux

I think there are plenty of recent movies that portray the military in a good light.  You're forgetting that Hollywood is about money and they make the movies that they think will bring in the most money.  If they get a great script that makes the military look bad, they'll make it.  If they get a great script that makes the military look good, they'll make that too. 

SARMedTech

While in Chicago recently and walking up the street (in uniform) to catch a cab after a meeting, I was greeted with everything from people wanting to shake my hand, one guy chasing me down to give me cup of coffee he bought at Starbucks, people wanting to take pictures and then there were the others....I serve (and proudly so) on a disaster medical team and if you know what you are looking at, you can tell that I am not military. But as I walked down Halstead in Chicago, I was greeted with choruses of calls of "baby killer" and "murderer."

What has happened in this country is that we are so divided on the war itself and have gotten so caught up in technology that we forget that those are human beings out there. Sons, daughters, husbands, wives, friends. They are human beings trained to do what are often horrible and unthinkable things. But they do so because we ask them to. I used to think "how are we protecting America by fighting in [insert latest war]? Maybe we arent always protecting America directly and of course there is alot about the military that I dont know though through experience with IMERT im getting more knowledge because we use so many military standards, equipment, etc. But someone has to stand up for people that cant stand up for themselves. Maybe its more that we are fighting for American values..freedom, equality, etc. Im surprised often that people dont understand that you can be anti-war and pro-soldier.

I have definitely gained a different perspective on things and am proud to say that I am now actively participating in the GWOT. Granted I wont ever wear a ribbon or medal for it and myself and the members of our team spend alot of money outfitting ourselves, just like in CAP, but when it happens again, we stand ready to go wheels up in 5 hours. Id like to see a National Service Day that honors all Americans who serve their countries through volunteering and putting themselves in harm's way to do it. We must never forget those who have gone before because it is on the trail they blazed that we go forward.

May we never forget.
"Corpsman Up!"

"...The distinct possibility of dying slow, cold and alone...but you also get the chance to save lives, and there is no greater calling in the world than that."

mikeylikey

Quote from: SARMedTech on December 09, 2007, 02:58:06 PM
But as I walked down Halstead in Chicago, I was greeted with choruses of calls of "baby killer" and "murderer."

I am going to climb out on my limb and call BS on that statement.  One thing about the current protesters against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is they protest the war and administration, but I have never seen them protest the Soldier.  Most of them support the soldier, airman etc......and because of Political Correctness have not attacked them (yet).  I have walked past some of the largest anti-war protests in the United States, and never once saw anything but respect for the soldier.  NOW.....I have seen those bastards at funerals that show up and praise the death of the recently deceased.  They are disrespectful [mess] heads that deserve to burn in hell for all eternity.  I wish I knew who they were so that when they eventually die I can show up at their funeral and disrupt their service.  If I ever run into one of them, I don't know if I would be able to control myself.  My future posts may be from prison because I would have murdered them. 

Bastards need to protest the war, but not the person.  Show some god [darn] respect for a person who was braver, and a better citizen.
What's up monkeys?

SARMedTech

Quote from: mikeylikey on December 09, 2007, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: SARMedTech on December 09, 2007, 02:58:06 PM
But as I walked down Halstead in Chicago, I was greeted with choruses of calls of "baby killer" and "murderer."

I am going to climb out on my limb and call BS on that statement.  One thing about the current protesters against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is they protest the war and administration, but I have never seen them protest the Soldier.  Most of them support the soldier, airman etc......and because of Political Correctness have not attacked them (yet).  I have walked past some of the largest anti-war protests in the United States, and never once saw anything but respect for the soldier.  NOW.....I have seen those bastards at funerals that show up and praise the death of the recently deceased.  They are disrespectful [mess] heads that deserve to burn in hell for all eternity.  I wish I knew who they were so that when they eventually die I can show up at their funeral and disrupt their service.  If I ever run into one of them, I don't know if I would be able to control myself.  My future posts may be from prison because I would have murdered them. 

Bastards need to protest the war, but not the person.  Show some god [darn] respect for a person who was braver, and a better citizen.

So youre saying Im lying about getting that response. That takes some guts. You werent even there so your basing my experience on your own which is a dangerous things to do. If you are saying that I am lying, I demand a public apology. You call me a liar in public you can just as well apologize.
"Corpsman Up!"

"...The distinct possibility of dying slow, cold and alone...but you also get the chance to save lives, and there is no greater calling in the world than that."

Eclipse

#48
There are mis-informed Alpha-Hotels all over, we can find one in every situation, every cause, every political candidate, every single conversation.

Sorry it happened to you, and good on ye' for showing restraint.

"That Others May Zoom"

JohnKachenmeister

Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 09, 2007, 01:22:46 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 09, 2007, 12:53:05 PM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 08, 2007, 07:17:51 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 08, 2007, 03:54:06 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 07, 2007, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 07, 2007, 10:32:13 PM
Now, Hollywood makes anti-American films depicting the terrorists as heroes and G.I.'s as villains

Name one that has come out in recent years. I cannot think of a SINGLE movie that did that.

I can name a lot of movies that portray terrorists as the villains, and GI's as the heroes, Blackhawk Down, for example.

"Redacted"

Also, some movie with the uber-leftists Robert Redford and Tom Cruise, I forget the name of it.

"Munich" that depicted the Black September terrorists that attacked the Olympics in 1972 as heroes and ultimately victims of the evil Israeli Mossad.

Even Blackhawk down and United 93, which were sympathetic to Americans, chose to emphasize American battle losses.  I'd like to see a movie about the succesful operation to insert SF troops in with the Northern Alliance when they ran the Taliban out of town.  How about a movie about the FBI stopping a terrorist attack (Which has happened several times) or the Battle of Fallujah where the Marines had to fight house-to-house?

As far as I know, that new Cruise and Redford movie depicts a senator as a villain, not a single US G.I. The GIs are depicted as victims of an uncaring government fighting to stay alive, or at least that is what I gather from the previews.

Munich is about Moussad, not US GIs, fail again. Not to mention the fact that the movie most definitely did not depict the terrorist as heroes. Not in the *expletive* least. The movie was by Spielberg, a Jew.

Recognizing US casualties that happened is making GIs villains? I suppose you would prefer we lie, and say no one died. Oh yeah, you didn't seem to notice the dead Somalis on every street corner. If anything emphasizing the emotion regarding the American's dying was to make the point that it is tragic when Americans die. You don't think it is sad when a GI dies? Have you had any family die in war? My cousin, an LTC in the Marines and a Cobra pilot, died in Iraq, I went to a funeral where I was brought to tears, and have two young cousins growing up without a father. It is tragic when a GI dies.

I'm getting the point of saying you are nearing madness.

Well, madness you say...

Then I say that you should go to the video store and rent "Wake Island," the first film made during World War II that depicted American troops in battle.  Eventually, we lost Wake Island, just as we lost Mogadishu, but the American Marines were presented in a much more favorable light than the Rangers in Black Hawk Down.  Then watch "Air Force," "30 Seconds Over Tokyo," "Guadalcanal Diary," and "The Purple Heart," and compare them to the garbage Hollywood puts out today.  These movies made during World War II were designed to keep UP the morale on the home front, encourage service, and validate American values. 

Today, Hollywood makes movies designed to scoff at our values, make us consider that the most barbaric enemy that the United States has ever faced may have some good points after all, and to diminish confidence in our leaders, including our military officers.

Yes, nearing madness. You prefer propaganda to reality. A reality that actually makes one care MORE about GIs, since it makes them out to be human. Black Hawk Down for the vast majority did NOT make the GIs out to be negative, not the least.

You accuse Hollywood of making terrorists into heroes, and GIs into villains. When you can't back up some evil anti-American agenda in Hollywood, you fall back onto not liking that soldiers are actually real people, and not depicted in the style of Westerns and such.

Continue this if you want, but it is plain to me that you just want to hate Hollywood for the sake of hating Hollywood, so I won't be replying anymore.

I leave you with a dancing Yoda.

Dance Yoda if you want, but you still cannot defend "Redacted."
Another former CAP officer

Cobra1597

#50
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 09, 2007, 05:23:02 PM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 09, 2007, 01:22:46 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 09, 2007, 12:53:05 PM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 08, 2007, 07:17:51 AM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 08, 2007, 03:54:06 AM
Quote from: Cobra1597 on December 07, 2007, 10:36:42 PM
Quote from: JohnKachenmeister on December 07, 2007, 10:32:13 PM
Now, Hollywood makes anti-American films depicting the terrorists as heroes and G.I.'s as villains

Name one that has come out in recent years. I cannot think of a SINGLE movie that did that.

I can name a lot of movies that portray terrorists as the villains, and GI's as the heroes, Blackhawk Down, for example.

"Redacted"

Also, some movie with the uber-leftists Robert Redford and Tom Cruise, I forget the name of it.

"Munich" that depicted the Black September terrorists that attacked the Olympics in 1972 as heroes and ultimately victims of the evil Israeli Mossad.

Even Blackhawk down and United 93, which were sympathetic to Americans, chose to emphasize American battle losses.  I'd like to see a movie about the succesful operation to insert SF troops in with the Northern Alliance when they ran the Taliban out of town.  How about a movie about the FBI stopping a terrorist attack (Which has happened several times) or the Battle of Fallujah where the Marines had to fight house-to-house?

As far as I know, that new Cruise and Redford movie depicts a senator as a villain, not a single US G.I. The GIs are depicted as victims of an uncaring government fighting to stay alive, or at least that is what I gather from the previews.

Munich is about Moussad, not US GIs, fail again. Not to mention the fact that the movie most definitely did not depict the terrorist as heroes. Not in the *expletive* least. The movie was by Spielberg, a Jew.

Recognizing US casualties that happened is making GIs villains? I suppose you would prefer we lie, and say no one died. Oh yeah, you didn't seem to notice the dead Somalis on every street corner. If anything emphasizing the emotion regarding the American's dying was to make the point that it is tragic when Americans die. You don't think it is sad when a GI dies? Have you had any family die in war? My cousin, an LTC in the Marines and a Cobra pilot, died in Iraq, I went to a funeral where I was brought to tears, and have two young cousins growing up without a father. It is tragic when a GI dies.

I'm getting the point of saying you are nearing madness.

Well, madness you say...

Then I say that you should go to the video store and rent "Wake Island," the first film made during World War II that depicted American troops in battle.  Eventually, we lost Wake Island, just as we lost Mogadishu, but the American Marines were presented in a much more favorable light than the Rangers in Black Hawk Down.  Then watch "Air Force," "30 Seconds Over Tokyo," "Guadalcanal Diary," and "The Purple Heart," and compare them to the garbage Hollywood puts out today.  These movies made during World War II were designed to keep UP the morale on the home front, encourage service, and validate American values. 

Today, Hollywood makes movies designed to scoff at our values, make us consider that the most barbaric enemy that the United States has ever faced may have some good points after all, and to diminish confidence in our leaders, including our military officers.

Yes, nearing madness. You prefer propaganda to reality. A reality that actually makes one care MORE about GIs, since it makes them out to be human. Black Hawk Down for the vast majority did NOT make the GIs out to be negative, not the least.

You accuse Hollywood of making terrorists into heroes, and GIs into villains. When you can't back up some evil anti-American agenda in Hollywood, you fall back onto not liking that soldiers are actually real people, and not depicted in the style of Westerns and such.

Continue this if you want, but it is plain to me that you just want to hate Hollywood for the sake of hating Hollywood, so I won't be replying anymore.

I leave you with a dancing Yoda.

Dance Yoda if you want, but you still cannot defend "Redacted."

It took you all of this time to come up with one movie that fit the bill? Even though I doubt it portrays terrorists as heroes, so at best depicts just a crime. A film that didn't even ever get a full release in the US?

I'm not converted into believing that all that Hollywood does anymore is make anti-military anti-GI pieces. Nope.
Harrison Ingraham, Capt, CAP
MAWG External Aerospace Education Officer, ADY
Spaatz #1597

mikeylikey

Quote from: SARMedTech on December 09, 2007, 04:34:28 PM
Quote from: mikeylikey on December 09, 2007, 03:24:54 PM
Quote from: SARMedTech on December 09, 2007, 02:58:06 PM
But as I walked down Halstead in Chicago, I was greeted with choruses of calls of "baby killer" and "murderer."

I am going to climb out on my limb and call BS on that statement.  One thing about the current protesters against the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan is they protest the war and administration, but I have never seen them protest the Soldier.  Most of them support the soldier, airman etc......and because of Political Correctness have not attacked them (yet).  I have walked past some of the largest anti-war protests in the United States, and never once saw anything but respect for the soldier.  NOW.....I have seen those bastards at funerals that show up and praise the death of the recently deceased.  They are disrespectful [mess] heads that deserve to burn in hell for all eternity.  I wish I knew who they were so that when they eventually die I can show up at their funeral and disrupt their service.  If I ever run into one of them, I don't know if I would be able to control myself.  My future posts may be from prison because I would have murdered them. 

Bastards need to protest the war, but not the person.  Show some god [darn] respect for a person who was braver, and a better citizen.

So you're saying I'm lying about getting that response. That takes some guts. You weren't even there so your basing my experience on your own which is a dangerous things to do. If you are saying that I am lying, I demand a public apology. You call me a liar in public you can just as well apologize.

I am saying I DON"T Believe you.  Never called you a liar, but if it makes you feel better, I apologize for publicly stating that I don't believe you

Feel better?  PM me if you want to bash further, I won't respond, but at least you won't be seen in public bashing people who don't believe you. 

(Too harsh) sorry, I am just an A-Hole when I read something that I just can't see happening.
What's up monkeys?