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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tall Tales  |  Topic: Worst SAREX experience
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Author Topic: Worst SAREX experience  (Read 20405 times)
EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,824

« Reply #40 on: December 12, 2010, 12:17:20 PM »

^ Until youve been the guy in the plane looking for obvious ground clues, Id be careful about throwing stones.

You might be very surprised about what you can and cant see.
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tsrup
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Posts: 738
Unit: NCR-SD-031

« Reply #41 on: December 12, 2010, 12:55:30 PM »

^^
agreed
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Paramedic
hang-around.
SII-117
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: **SECRET**

« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2011, 04:52:16 PM »

A SAREX fits into one of these categories:
1. Great training, and no injuries
2. Training+Injuries
3.No Training+Injuries
4. None of either.

One SAREX last August fit #4.
I was working com, as usual, and we got everything set up, and the repeaters in the air, and waited.
And waited.
And waited.
And waited some more.

Saturday passed with nothing happening at all.
Sunday was really fun, though-I got to play cards with friends while still waiting.
We all went home, wondering what happened to the weekend. >:(
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CAPcadet902
Banned

Posts: 11
Unit: 902

« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2011, 03:39:00 AM »

Just had another one. PA wing up to their usual tricks again. CAP Vans with LL Ranger stickers on. Really Hawk/101???
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Major Carrales
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Posts: 4,106

« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2011, 10:01:33 AM »

^ Until you’ve been the guy in the plane looking for obvious ground clues, I’d be careful about throwing stones.

You might be very surprised about what you can and can’t see.

Until you've been the guy on the ground and in the air its hard to make judgements.  It has been my experience that the aircrews and ground teams are in their own respective worlds, not in a malevolent way, but in that their focus in on their scanner training or ELT searches/ground team taskings.  We can create more of an affect at SARexs by doing "joint training."  That is, real air/ground/COMM work that gets training accross as it would happen at a REDCAP.

At a REDCAP, for example, the mission should be coordiated with air/ground/mission staff/COMM working togehter instead of compartmentalizing.  It is important to, barrowing a phrase I heard, "train as we fight."

This is in the hands of the IC of the SARex, if the focus is "Qualify AIRCREW MEMBERS and UDF TEAMS" then we are limited in scope, however, if our focus and objective is "coordinate a Search and Rescue Exercise through a training the qualifies people with a more 'global' scope" then we have that in place and practiced for the REDCAPs.
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SWR-TX-454
jeders
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Posts: 2,013

« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2011, 10:21:46 AM »

^ Until youve been the guy in the plane looking for obvious ground clues, Id be careful about throwing stones.

You might be very surprised about what you can and cant see.

Until you've been the guy on the ground and in the air its hard to make judgements.  It has been my experience that the aircrews and ground teams are in their own respective worlds, not in a malevolent way, but in that their focus in on their scanner training or ELT searches/ground team taskings.  We can create more of an affect at SARexs by doing "joint training."  That is, real air/ground/COMM work that gets training accross as it would happen at a REDCAP.

At a REDCAP, for example, the mission should be coordiated with air/ground/mission staff/COMM working togehter instead of compartmentalizing.  It is important to, barrowing a phrase I heard, "train as we fight."

This is in the hands of the IC of the SARex, if the focus is "Qualify AIRCREW MEMBERS and UDF TEAMS" then we are limited in scope, however, if our focus and objective is "coordinate a Search and Rescue Exercise through a training the qualifies people with a more 'global' scope" then we have that in place and practiced for the REDCAPs.

This is why I've always been a firm believer in never training ground teams and aircrews at the same time. If you're going to pair ground teams and aircrews, then one or the other needs to be fully, or at least almost fully, trained. This way whichever of the two resources needs the most training, they are supported by a well trained resource, and it can be more real. Also, a lot more time is wasted if both are untrained.

And having been the guy on the ground and the guy in the air with the same target, it's amazing what you think is visible on the ground that is invisible from the air. Depending on time of day, atmospheric conditions, etc., the eyes in the sky can miss some seemingly obvious things.
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Ron1319
Seasoned Member

Posts: 300
Unit: PCR-CA-273

Squadron Website
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2011, 01:22:23 PM »

This seems rather hypothetical.  Every mission I've been on as a (now called) UDF team when we had a plane in the air, the plane got a signal and narrowed it down enough to give us a place to look.  We then went to that place and saw if we could get a signal that told us which way to go and found the practice ELT.  Are we talking about searches without a radio signal to follow?  The two finds I can easily remember, one place was an airport and the other was a small town which had a boat repair shop in it with a marine beacon that was removed from the boat and thrown around.
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Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
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SarDragon
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Posts: 10,081
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #47 on: April 05, 2011, 02:50:08 AM »

I just participated in a SAREX this w/e, and it went OK, but there were weather issues that delayed the sorties both days. Also, at least one MP wasn't instrument qualified, so that crew couldn't depart the mission base because he couldn't fly through the gunk into great air our at the grid. There was also the issue of being able to return to base if the weather had been OK going out, and gotten bad during the sortie.

BTW, this was all air sorties. No GT/UDF involvement.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
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C/TSetser
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« Reply #48 on: April 22, 2011, 07:17:07 AM »

Mine is I was at a Sarex and we just about ready to deploy, and one kid went to one of the stalls. Not thinking, I just go up to the one I thought he was in and I knock on the door and say "Hurry up Driscoll." I do this a couple of times, then a full blown major (also the wing vice commander) walks out and he says, "Who knocked on the door." I own up to it and he says is that the way to adress and officer. I scared at this point and storms off. Its probably not the most exciting, but it is probably my worst.

C/CMSgt Thomas Setser
IN-036
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Thomas Setser,
C/1st Lt, Civil Air Patrol
Valparaiso Cadet Squadron
IN-036
davidsinn
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Unit: NW-IN

« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2011, 10:23:25 AM »

Mine is I was at a Sarex and we just about ready to deploy, and one kid went to one of the stalls. Not thinking, I just go up to the one I thought he was in and I knock on the door and say "Hurry up Driscoll." I do this a couple of times, then a full blown major (also the wing vice commander) walks out and he says, "Who knocked on the door." I own up to it and he says is that the way to adress and officer. I scared at this point and storms off. Its probably not the most exciting, but it is probably my worst.

C/CMSgt Thomas Setser
IN-036

I remember that. I felt sorry for you because that wasn't just any major, it was the wing vice commander. :o
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Former CAP Captain
David Sinn
cpyahoo
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #50 on: February 12, 2012, 12:45:26 PM »

     Well, mine isn't the worst I've ever had, but certainly interesting!  Back in 1987, I was up at a wing SAREX way up in Northern Wisconsin.  At the time, I was a C/MSgt. (that was as high as you could go before you got your Mitchell) and my Land Rescue Team (Ground Team for you folks!) was not attending this particular event.  I was hoping to jump in with another LRT, but got to mission base after they all left.  By this point in my cadet-hood, I was no dummy.  I wandered over to the next hangar and checked in with the [then] Ground Ops Officer and duly informed him that "... I was sent to assist him".  I wasn't about to work flightline or dump trash at mission base!  He was delighted by this and went back about his duties.
      At noon on the button, he got up, grabbed a garment bag and started strolling out the door.  So, being the inquiring mind, I ask, "Where ya doing?"  His reply?  "I'm off to a wedding.  See ya!"  Then I inquire again, "Who's gonna be ground ops officer???"  His answer? "You be ground ops officer.  Not my problem!"  Oh, boy...
     I ran over and tried telling the [then] Mission Coordinator.  Tried several times!  Finally, the Old Man ordered me out of there because he "... didn't have time for my nonsense."  What the... ???  Ok...
     I went back over and took over as ground ops officer!  At the time, there were 5 LRTs in the field and nobody had a clue as to where any were at.  After a period of 3 hours, I got all the LRTs located, on task and working grids. 
     The LRT from Milwaukee Emergency Services Squadron (MESS... that still cracks me up!  Good folks, though) rolled in about the same time as the Air Force evaluators.  The USAF was up for a staff assist on our mission.  The MESS-kins looked and laughed.  "You the ground ops officer???"  My response, "Yep!"  I gave them their tasking and safety briefs, outlined their search areas and gave them the info for their aircraft coordination.  The whole time... the USAF inspectors were steadily taking notes!  After the MESS LRT left, the USAF inspectors approached me and asked questions about ground ops.  They seemed fairly impressed with my breif.  Then, the $60,000 question came.  "Where's the Ground Ops Officer?"  I briefed them that he had left for a wedding and that I was it.  Then they asked, "But... you're a cadet?"  I then informed them that I tried telling the Missiom Coordinator, but was politely told to "deal with it". 
     At the outbrief, the Mission Coordinator was SHOCKED to learn that had it been a real SAR EVAL, they would have failed.  The reason?  A cadet was the Ground Ops Officer.  However, they gave me kuddos for doing a fine job and said that was the best brief they've ever recieved on ground operations! 
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JeffDG
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Posts: 3,157

« Reply #51 on: February 12, 2012, 01:00:09 PM »

     At the outbrief, the Mission Coordinator was SHOCKED to learn that had it been a real SAR EVAL, they would have failed.  The reason?  A cadet was the Ground Ops Officer.  However, they gave me kuddos for doing a fine job and said that was the best brief they've ever recieved on ground operations!
At our last SAREVAL, we had a cadet as our GBD...he received an "Outstanding" grade for his branch.
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Mark_Wheeler
Member

Posts: 70

« Reply #52 on: February 12, 2012, 03:39:24 PM »

I was a 20 year old Logistics Section Chief at the last Eval and my section earned an Outstanding. Would a cadet the same age be any different, besides likely having more time in the program than I had?

Mark
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τε
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 781
Unit: PCR-CA-205

« Reply #53 on: February 12, 2012, 03:49:46 PM »

I think the problem was more the fact that the Mission Coordinator had no clue what was happening in Ground Ops rather than that a Cadet was running Ground Ops.
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PHall
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Posts: 5,879

« Reply #54 on: February 12, 2012, 03:53:03 PM »

I think the problem was more the fact that the Mission Coordinator had no clue what was happening in Ground Ops rather than that a Cadet was running Ground Ops.

No, you had Ground Ops being run by a cadet who was not rated as a Ground Ops Director. He was a GTM. That's what the Evaluators had a problem with.
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Mark_Wheeler
Member

Posts: 70

« Reply #55 on: February 12, 2012, 10:10:05 PM »

   
     At the outbrief, the Mission Coordinator was SHOCKED to learn that had it been a real SAR EVAL, they would have failed.  The reason?  A cadet was the Ground Ops Officer.

I only meant that statement in regards to this comment. I wholeheartedly agree on the other comments. They rightfully should have been dinged if he wasn't even known to the IC or if he wasn't qualified for that position.

Mark
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JeffDG
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Posts: 3,157

« Reply #56 on: February 13, 2012, 09:56:13 AM »

I was a 20 year old Logistics Section Chief at the last Eval and my section earned an Outstanding. Would a cadet the same age be any different, besides likely having more time in the program than I had?

Mark
How do you do that when the SQTR for LSC has an "Age Eligibility: 21 years" in the Prerequisites section?

The Branch Directors require 18 year olds, so cadets are eligible for those, but of the Section Chiefs, only the Planning Section Chief does not include a 21 age of eligibility in the prereqs (and don't ask my what PSC doesn't...I haven't a clue!)
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cpyahoo
Member

Posts: 66
Unit: SER-TN-170

« Reply #57 on: February 13, 2012, 10:05:17 AM »

Well... back in 1987, a cadet as Ground Ops was a NO-GO!

Back then we didn't have GTLs and GBDs.  The whole set-up was different.
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Mark_Wheeler
Member

Posts: 70

« Reply #58 on: February 13, 2012, 01:17:06 PM »

I was a 20 year old Logistics Section Chief at the last Eval and my section earned an Outstanding. Would a cadet the same age be any different, besides likely having more time in the program than I had?

Mark
How do you do that when the SQTR for LSC has an "Age Eligibility: 21 years" in the Prerequisites section?

The Branch Directors require 18 year olds, so cadets are eligible for those, but of the Section Chiefs, only the Planning Section Chief does not include a 21 age of eligibility in the prereqs (and don't ask my what PSC doesn't...I haven't a clue!)

Good point. That was listed in the NESA task guides, but not on the SQTR that was in EServices when I qualified as an LSC.  At that point, the age check was 18 for that position. Some time after June of 2011 and September of 2011 they changed it to a 21 year age requirement. I'm not sure when that was because the next time I looked at the SQTR (Teaching another LSC) it was a the end of September and it had the 21 year old age requirement. With my birthday having just past, I got really lucky that my qualification didn't go away.

Mark
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Ron1319
Seasoned Member

Posts: 300
Unit: PCR-CA-273

Squadron Website
« Reply #59 on: February 13, 2012, 01:51:57 PM »

It pains me that they would change any ES position age requirement from 18 to 21.  I was a 20 year old scanner/observer and GTL and I'm of the opinion that a well trained cadet is typically at least as well studied and every bit as well focused as their senior member counterpart. 
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Ronald Thompson, Maj, CAP
Deputy Commander, Squadron 85, Placerville, CA
PCR-CA-273
Spaatz #1319
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