New AF Service Coat?

Started by Jester, September 12, 2017, 08:16:50 PM

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Jester



Reddit rumor is that this is supposed to be the direction of the new service coat if the field likes it (without the extra Honor Guard flair of course).

I love it, and will gladly retire my old one as soon as this one becomes available (and authorized for CAP).

Commo

What uniform coat is that in the picture, and what color is it?

It's hard to tell in the picture if it's  dark navy, charcoal, black, etc.  The stripes at the cuff resemble the Army dress blues before the blue uniform became the class A.

Commo

Eclipse

So back to "I Dream of Jeannie" but with shiny buttons and a darker cloth...

"That Others May Zoom"

N6RVT

Quote from: Eclipse on September 12, 2017, 09:53:49 PM
So back to "I Dream of Jeannie" but with shiny buttons and a darker cloth...

The "Tony Nelson" coat was the shade 1084 I wore as a cadet - the bottom pockets were on the outside.  This looks like the coat we had just prior to what we have now, but in a darker fabric.

The darker fabric IS just for honor guards, which means just going back to the previous coat, only in the current shade 1625.

Which I would be totally happy with.

Jester

Quote from: Commo on September 12, 2017, 09:46:17 PM
What uniform coat is that in the picture, and what color is it?

It's hard to tell in the picture if it's  dark navy, charcoal, black, etc.  The stripes at the cuff resemble the Army dress blues before the blue uniform became the class A.

Commo


USAF Honor Guard. They have all that stuff on there, sewn in creases, etc. required by reg. Silver braid down the pants, extra silver trim on the service cap, different cap device, etc.

N6RVT

The current honor guard uniform is all thats left of the "Informal Black" which was the USAF equivalent of the army dress blue.  When the regular service blue went to the McPeak style the honor guard didn't change and kept the style of the existing coat.

Which unfortunately leads me to believe that this is just a wishful thinking rumor.

Matthew Congrove

Lt. Col. Matthew Congrove, CAP

N6RVT

Quote from: Matthew Congrove on September 13, 2017, 05:25:01 AM
The WW1 design was overdoing it.  The WW2 "Hap Arnold" heritage uniform was perfect, though


THRAWN

Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

arajca

Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

THRAWN

Quote from: arajca on September 13, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Jester

As a replacement for the service coat, which it was intended for, it was a bit much for everyday wear.  I can't imagine a CSAF wearing it to testify before Congress alongside the other JCS members. 

As a separate dress uniform, maybe, but the last the the AF needs is additional uniforms.

arajca

Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: arajca on September 13, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
And when was the last time the AF had that as a uniform? Heck, when was the last time the Army had that as a uniform?

THRAWN

Quote from: arajca on September 13, 2017, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: arajca on September 13, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
And when was the last time the AF had that as a uniform? Heck, when was the last time the Army had that as a uniform?

Doesn't really matter, as it has "long been a part of their history".
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

FallenTX

Quote from: Jester on September 12, 2017, 08:16:50 PM


Reddit rumor is that this is supposed to be the direction of the new service coat if the field likes it (without the extra Honor Guard flair of course).

I love it, and will gladly retire my old one as soon as this one becomes available (and authorized for CAP).

Do you happen to have a source link for that thread? I'd be curious to see it in context.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Jester

Quote from: FallenTX on September 14, 2017, 12:40:33 PM
Quote from: Jester on September 12, 2017, 08:16:50 PM


Reddit rumor is that this is supposed to be the direction of the new service coat if the field likes it (without the extra Honor Guard flair of course).

I love it, and will gladly retire my old one as soon as this one becomes available (and authorized for CAP).

Do you happen to have a source link for that thread? I'd be curious to see it in context.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa

jeders

Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 06:44:04 PM
Quote from: arajca on September 13, 2017, 06:42:37 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 06:03:43 PM
Quote from: arajca on September 13, 2017, 06:02:31 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on September 13, 2017, 05:58:47 PM
Overdoing it? Tell it to the Marines...
For the Marines, it's long been a part of their history. For the Air Force, not so much...

Really? The uniform that is in the photo was called the Mitchell coat. Wanna venture a guess as to why?
And when was the last time the AF had that as a uniform? Heck, when was the last time the Army had that as a uniform?

Doesn't really matter, as it has "long been a part of their history".

Long been a part of the history is not the same as "was a part of the history a long time ago."
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

kwe1009

Quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa

So one of the responses on that thread is "Last I heard the idea was to have the AF HG wear it and see what the rest of the Force thought and if it was liked we'd switch"

I don't recall a time when AF leadership cared about what the members thought of a possible uniform change.  I was in during the McPeak days and saw the dress uniform go from military to USAir pilot. 

/Rant
The CMSAF came and spoke at my Airman Leadership School class as was field testing the new service uniform.  Everyone in the class hated it and told him (the white stripes, no collar brass, stripes on sleeves for officer rank, no name tag, etc) that is looked like crap and not a military uniform.  His response was "this is the uniform we are going with and you don't have to like it but you will have to wear it."  Pure leadership there.  He then went on to berate on of my classmates because he didn't want to join the NCO club because he didn't have the money for the dues.  The CMSAF response to that was, "get a part-time job or get promoted.  If you aren't a member of the NCO club you are basically a dirt bag Airman."  Yes, the CMSAF called someone a dirt bag Airman in front of about 20 people for not joining the NCO club.  /Rant over

THRAWN

Quote from: kwe1009 on September 14, 2017, 02:45:29 PM
Quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa

So one of the responses on that thread is "Last I heard the idea was to have the AF HG wear it and see what the rest of the Force thought and if it was liked we'd switch"

I don't recall a time when AF leadership cared about what the members thought of a possible uniform change.  I was in during the McPeak days and saw the dress uniform go from military to USAir pilot. 

/Rant
The CMSAF came and spoke at my Airman Leadership School class as was field testing the new service uniform.  Everyone in the class hated it and told him (the white stripes, no collar brass, stripes on sleeves for officer rank, no name tag, etc) that is looked like crap and not a military uniform.  His response was "this is the uniform we are going with and you don't have to like it but you will have to wear it."  Pure leadership there.  He then went on to berate on of my classmates because he didn't want to join the NCO club because he didn't have the money for the dues.  The CMSAF response to that was, "get a part-time job or get promoted.  If you aren't a member of the NCO club you are basically a dirt bag Airman."  Yes, the CMSAF called someone a dirt bag Airman in front of about 20 people for not joining the NCO club.  /Rant over

If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: THRAWN on September 14, 2017, 02:49:48 PM
Quote from: kwe1009 on September 14, 2017, 02:45:29 PM
Quote

https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/6zotqb/new_honor_guard_uniform/?st=J7KGIUXO&sh=a71b13aa

So one of the responses on that thread is "Last I heard the idea was to have the AF HG wear it and see what the rest of the Force thought and if it was liked we'd switch"

I don't recall a time when AF leadership cared about what the members thought of a possible uniform change.  I was in during the McPeak days and saw the dress uniform go from military to USAir pilot. 

/Rant
The CMSAF came and spoke at my Airman Leadership School class as was field testing the new service uniform.  Everyone in the class hated it and told him (the white stripes, no collar brass, stripes on sleeves for officer rank, no name tag, etc) that is looked like crap and not a military uniform.  His response was "this is the uniform we are going with and you don't have to like it but you will have to wear it."  Pure leadership there.  He then went on to berate on of my classmates because he didn't want to join the NCO club because he didn't have the money for the dues.  The CMSAF response to that was, "get a part-time job or get promoted.  If you aren't a member of the NCO club you are basically a dirt bag Airman."  Yes, the CMSAF called someone a dirt bag Airman in front of about 20 people for not joining the NCO club.  /Rant over

If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....


Well the timeline is pretty solidly right pre-McPeak uniform.

Jester

I'm all-in on the current SECAF/CSAF/CMSAF team.  I definitely never really had a "good" one while I was in.

kwe1009

Quote from: THRAWN on September 14, 2017, 02:49:48 PM


If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....

Pfingston of course

THRAWN

Quote from: kwe1009 on September 14, 2017, 08:54:02 PM
Quote from: THRAWN on September 14, 2017, 02:49:48 PM


If it's the one I'm thinking of, he was a prime example of all the wrongs with the SAC-itude....

Pfingston of course

Yep. That's all I got to say....
Strup-"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
USMC CSCDEP 2023

ColonelJack

I asked on another forum about why, when Gen. Fogelman reversed most of what Gen. McPeak had done to the uniform, they didn't just go back to the "Tony Nelson" coat.  The reply I got was that Fogelman didn't want all the money McPeak had spent on the new uniforms wasted, so they came up with the retrofit idea of putting epaulets back on the service coat, slowly returning cutouts to the lapels, etc.

My own preference would, of course, be going back to the Tony Nelson coat, in current shade and with the shiny insignia.

The "Hap Arnold Heritage" design works if you look good with a belt around your jacket, which I don't.

Jack
Jack Bagley, Ed. D.
Lt. Col., CAP (now inactive)
Gill Robb Wilson Award No. 1366, 29 Nov 1991
Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
Honorary Admiral, Navy of the Republic of Molossia

Jester

I never liked the big Elvis collar or belt on the test Arnold coat.

kwe1009

Quote from: ColonelJack on September 15, 2017, 10:42:35 AM
I asked on another forum about why, when Gen. Fogelman reversed most of what Gen. McPeak had done to the uniform, they didn't just go back to the "Tony Nelson" coat.  The reply I got was that Fogelman didn't want all the money McPeak had spent on the new uniforms wasted, so they came up with the retrofit idea of putting epaulets back on the service coat, slowly returning cutouts to the lapels, etc.

My own preference would, of course, be going back to the Tony Nelson coat, in current shade and with the shiny insignia.

The "Hap Arnold Heritage" design works if you look good with a belt around your jacket, which I don't.

Jack

That is what happened.  Fogelman hated the McPeak uniform and wore BDUs, even when DVs, like McPeak, would visit.  It would make McPeak mad.

Майор Хаткевич

I find it interesting that the Hap Arnold Heritage (with narrower collar) was canned, but generals get to turn band uniforms into "command ceremonial"




Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on September 15, 2017, 03:57:32 PM
I find it interesting that the Hap Arnold Heritage (with narrower collar) was canned, but generals get to turn band uniforms into "command ceremonial"





"Generals" don't. Your first Exemplar photo shows the General who was in charge of the research and testing for both the Mitchell and Arnold heritage uniforms.

The other uniforms depicted are restricted to use by the USAF Chief of Staff and the Chief Master Sergeant of the Air Force.

Nothing to see here. No generals running rampant.


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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

MSG Mac

 The Air Force seems to change uniforms every 10 years
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
50 Year Member

PHall

Quote from: MSG Mac on September 16, 2017, 06:33:47 PM
The Air Force seems to change uniforms every 10 years

It's been more then 10 years since the last major uniform change (ABU's).

Panther

Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.

                USAFA '20

PHall

Quote from: Panther on September 16, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.

That jacket has to be 15 years old or older. How well does it match your pants? They are supposed to match.

AlphaSigOU

Flag officers have a wide latitude to wear distinctive uniform combinations reserved exclusively for them. For the Air Force, this includes the following:


Hap Arnold wing and star roller belt buckle
Army officer lightweight jacket in AF blue with embroidered name and wings
Air Force general officer pistol and ceremonial pistol belt
Band weenie ceremonial dress


General officers have their own "private tailor shop" at Wright-Patterson AFB, where short-run uniform wear tests are made. Some MCSS stores at bases with a heavy GO population will include GO bus driver and bucket hats (for the females), though females can now wear the male service and flight caps.


Generals (and sometimes their staffs) will wear-test uniform proposals before rolling out to an extended wear test or all-service use.
Lt Col Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
Gill Robb Wilson Award (#2901 - 2011)
Amelia Earhart Award (#1257 - 1982) - C/Major (retired)
Billy Mitchell Award (#2375 - 1981)
Administrative/Personnel/Professional Development Officer
Nellis Composite Squadron (PCR-NV-069)
KJ6GHO - NAR 45040

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: PHall on September 16, 2017, 10:49:28 PM
Quote from: Panther on September 16, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.

That jacket has to be 15 years old or older. How well does it match your pants? They are supposed to match.


You and I both know that they don't match in 99% of the cases. I had a hard time matching pants to my old style coat 10 years ago, when that uniform combo was already pretty much 15 years out of date.


But hey, when do we get to call the "new style" the current style, and the "old style" the vintage style? We're just a few years away from it being 25+ years old. 1994 wasn't it?

arajca

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on September 18, 2017, 03:12:07 PM
Quote from: PHall on September 16, 2017, 10:49:28 PM
Quote from: Panther on September 16, 2017, 09:59:29 PM
Honestly, I prefer the old style service jacket I still wear as a cadet. The new one looks more "businessman" than military IMHO. USAFA has a nice cadet service coat similar to the old style as well.

That jacket has to be 15 years old or older. How well does it match your pants? They are supposed to match.


You and I both know that they don't match in 99% of the cases. I had a hard time matching pants to my old style coat 10 years ago, when that uniform combo was already pretty much 15 years out of date.


But hey, when do we get to call the "new style" the current style, and the "old style" the vintage style? We're just a few years away from it being 25+ years old. 1994 wasn't it?
How 'bout we just phase out the old style?

jeders

Quote from: arajca on September 18, 2017, 03:55:32 PM
How 'bout we just phase out the old style?

As much as I prefer the old style from an aesthetic point of view, I have to agree 100% with this. Let's get rid of it and move on.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse