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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: 101 card Queston
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Author Topic: 101 card Queston  (Read 328 times)
taylor914
Recruit

Posts: 19

« on: September 08, 2017, 10:24:44 AM »

Are cadets supposed to have a photo on their 101 card?  Someone told me they don't because they're minors, but I can't find anywhere that says they don't.  Can someone clear that up?
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BFreemanMA
Forum Regular

Posts: 137
Unit: NER-MA-015

Westover Composite Squadron
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2017, 10:49:10 AM »

No, only SMs are required to take and have approved a photo for use on their 101 and membership card.
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Brian Freeman, Capt, CAP
Public Affairs Officer
Westover Composite Squadron

Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,823

« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2017, 11:13:28 AM »

Yes - cadets should have a photo on their 101, and there is no prohibition on it related to age.  If you post a photo, it will appear on the 101.

BFreemanMA is correct that only senior members are required to have a photo on file, but all members should have one, if for no other reason
then safety - if you go to activities outside your normal unit, no one knows what you look like, and if you go missing, unless there's a photo on
file, nothing to provide to the PD, etc.

I can't imagine why being a minor has anything to do with whether a photo is posted on an identification card, and not all cadets are minors.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,497

« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2017, 11:48:00 AM »

See link below http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/462/kw/photo

Or you could have gone directly to CAPR 39-2 Sect 1.15.2.

I quote directly from both:

Quote
1.15.2. Active members, fifty year members, life members, legislative members and cadets 18 and over will receive a photo membership card.

Eclipse's suggestion may seem valid, however as a teacher, and as a CAP member I would offer this.

If someone is younger than 18, there are perpetrators that are looking for those younger than 18. Any photo will help them get their victims. There is a CAP mandate that states to "protect Personal Individual Information." Younger than 18 cadets address and birthdate do not appear online. It only says "Younger than 18" or similar.

Any argument for posting cadet photos online can also be made to provide birthdate and address online.

Also if you look back to training related to online safety, states to not post online minor photos, just like you would / should not post a minor info to include photos and address outside a school, not give info on a chat room as to what school you go, grade attending, etc.
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Eclipse
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Posts: 27,823

« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2017, 11:53:31 AM »

Identification photos are not a "post online" in the way you're referring.

This is official use of a photograph in a secure system, for the safety of both the member and the organizaiton
is wholly appropriate - how do you know the cadet in front of you, whose mom just slowed down enough for them
to leap out of the car, is actually the cadet in question, and not his buddy, brother, or just someone with a printer?

The only people who have access to 101 card photoso are other members, and there is no way to "browse" photos
unless you are on the staff of a member's unit or in their chain.

Every middle and high school in my AOR issues photo IDs to students.  This is no different.

Also, cadet birthdates are accessible online to those who need the information.

The typical unit TwitBook page contains far more information on members, as do CAP
press releases - usually with full names, sometimes ages (or ranges), and other information one could argue
is better not public if the risk is so high - usually with whole groups identified by the name on their shirts.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 11:58:21 AM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,497

« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 12:49:16 PM »

Quote
This is official use of a photograph in a secure system, for the safety of both the member and the organizaiton
is wholly appropriate

Be that as it may, as I said, it is the same as not showing the address and birthdate for the same squadron.

Quote
- how do you know the cadet in front of you, whose mom just slowed down enough for them
to leap out of the car, is actually the cadet in question, and not his buddy, brother, or just someone with a printer?

Ask NHQ why despite this valuable use they decided not to allow the photo. I see the value on having this just for this reason, but until NHQ changes policy... Actually I would be willing to bet that if the cadet is stepping of the car for a squadron meeting, you should know him by face and know he belongs there... But at a mission or TRAEX? This would be more of an argument to have said cadet with a photo ID...

Quote
The only people who have access to 101 card photoso are other members, and there is no way to "browse" photos
unless you are on the staff of a member's unit or in their chain.

Same can be said of address and birthdate.

Quote
Every middle and high school in my AOR issues photo IDs to students.

Same in my AOR.

Quote
Also, cadet birthdates are accessible online to those who need the information.

When I was a squadron commander I could argue a need for this info. I can understand denying this info to other senior members that are not commanders or admin and personnel officers. But I never have had this info available, not when I was a squadron commander, nor when I was Admin, nor when I was Personnel Officer.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 12:52:45 PM by Luis R. Ramos » Logged

Squadron Administrative Officer
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2017, 12:51:57 PM »

Ask NHQ why despite this they decided not to allow the photo. I see the value on having this just for this reason, but until NHQ changes policy...

NHQ has no policy against 101 card photos - they print normally.

But I never have had this info available, not when I was a squadron commander, nor when I was Admin, nor when I was Personnel Officer.

I can assure you that you did, especially as CC and Personnel, at least if you were any of those things in the era of eServices.  You may not have known
where to look for it, but it's always been in the same place it is today within the Personnel module.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2017, 12:56:05 PM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,802

« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2017, 12:54:14 PM »

Quote
This is official use of a photograph in a secure system, for the safety of both the member and the organizaiton
is wholly appropriate

Be that as it may, as I said, it is the same as not showing the address and birthdate for the same squadron.

Quote
- how do you know the cadet in front of you, whose mom just slowed down enough for them
to leap out of the car, is actually the cadet in question, and not his buddy, brother, or just someone with a printer?

Ask NHQ why despite this they decided not to allow the photo. I see the value on having this just for this reason, but until NHQ changes policy...

Quote
The only people who have access to 101 card photoso are other members, and there is no way to "browse" photos
unless you are on the staff of a member's unit or in their chain.

Same can be said of address and birthdate.

Quote
Every middle and high school in my AOR issues photo IDs to students.

Same in my AOR.

Quote
Also, cadet birthdates are accessible online to those who need the information.

When I was a squadron commander I could argue a need for this info. I can understand denying this info to other senior members that are not commanders or admin and personnel officers. But I never have had this info available, not when I was a squadron commander, nor when I was Admin, nor when I was Personnel Officer.

So you're saying none of your students have photos on their school ID and none of those photos are stored on a computer that is linked to the internet? Kind of shoots the stuffing out of your "under 18" argument.

Stop looking for the next emerging star of To Catch a Predator behind every bush.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
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USAF ACSC 2011
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,497

« Reply #8 on: September 08, 2017, 12:55:50 PM »

I have seen regulations and memos regarding the photos. They said "cadets under 18 are not required, only senior members." I am trying to locate them.

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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,823

« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 12:56:47 PM »

I have seen regulations and memos regarding the photos. They said "cadets under 18 are not required, only senior members." I am trying to locate them.

You don't need to, no one is disputing that.  "Not required" does not equal "prohibited".

Senior members are required to have a photo on file (Despite the fact that far too many don't. Why NHQ doesn't lock these
members out until that is fixed astounds me).
  For cadets it's optional, likely for the 4 helicopter moms who would object,
that's fine, but I would argue it's a best-practice to have them for the cadet's safety if nothing else, and many NCSAs,
encampments, and award submissions require a photo.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,497

« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 12:58:55 PM »

Thrawn, where did I said that? You need to read better! From my own message:

Quote
(From Eclipse)    Every middle and high school in my AOR issues photo IDs to students.

(From Ramos)
Same in my AOR.
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
τε
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 777
Unit: PCR-CA-437

« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 01:06:54 PM »

You do realize that birthdates and addresses of adult members are also unavailable to the general membership, right?
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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,802

« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2017, 01:22:49 PM »

See link below http://capnhq.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/462/kw/photo

Or you could have gone directly to CAPR 39-2 Sect 1.15.2.

I quote directly from both:

Quote
1.15.2. Active members, fifty year members, life members, legislative members and cadets 18 and over will receive a photo membership card.

Eclipse's suggestion may seem valid, however as a teacher, and as a CAP member I would offer this.

If someone is younger than 18, there are perpetrators that are looking for those younger than 18. Any photo will help them get their victims. There is a CAP mandate that states to "protect Personal Individual Information." Younger than 18 cadets address and birthdate do not appear online. It only says "Younger than 18" or similar.

Any argument for posting cadet photos online can also be made to provide birthdate and address online.

Also if you look back to training related to online safety, states to not post online minor photos, just like you would / should not post a minor info to include photos and address outside a school, not give info on a chat room as to what school you go, grade attending, etc.

Yeah, but you also said this. So which is it? In your argument against having photos on 101s, you cite this, but don't seem to have an issue with it for school children. Bottom line, there is no prohibition on having the photo on a 101 card, but it's not required.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Vegas1972
Recruit

Posts: 19
Unit: PCR-NV

« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 02:32:13 PM »


I can assure you that you did, especially as CC and Personnel, at least if you were any of those things in the era of eServices.  You may not have known
where to look for it, but it's always been in the same place it is today within the Personnel module.

As a CDC, it is available in the "Reports" section to me as well.   
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"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid.", Sgt. John M. Stryker.
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