Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
November 18, 2017, 10:05:01 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Targeted Recruiting and the Re-imagining of the Senior Member Experience
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All Print
Author Topic: Targeted Recruiting and the Re-imagining of the Senior Member Experience  (Read 5485 times)
Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #20 on: September 05, 2017, 04:08:30 PM »

The data does not back up what you're saying.
Data? That matters? The video has a ton of great data, and actionable ideas.
Logged
grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 201

« Reply #21 on: September 05, 2017, 04:21:06 PM »

CAP doesn't have a recruiting problem, they have a retention problem. Eliminate the BS that causes members to walk away and membership numbers will soar.

You mean like stop treating SM like day one USAF recruits, yelling and disrespecting them in front of a classroom full of cadets, parents and other SM? Stopping that type of BS would probably help

5 Squadrons since 1972 - I have never EVER seen that, nor have I ever heard of that happening.
Lucky you then, because I have seen it twice in my short 18 months in CAP.


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 201

« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2017, 04:22:27 PM »

That might be a local issue. Sh....stuff like that doesn't fly in too many places, nor should it.

Sadly it's more prevalent then you might think, and sometimes new members take it for a short while
thinking that's "part of the game", making it worse when they find it isn't.
Concur!


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,809

« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2017, 04:23:12 PM »

CAP doesn't have a recruiting problem, they have a retention problem. Eliminate the BS that causes members to walk away and membership numbers will soar.

You mean like stop treating SM like day one USAF recruits, yelling and disrespecting them in front of a classroom full of cadets, parents and other SM? Stopping that type of BS would probably help

5 Squadrons since 1972 - I have never EVER seen that, nor have I ever heard of that happening.
Lucky you then, because I have seen it twice in my short 18 months in CAP.


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042

That needs to be Neganed.
Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 201

« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2017, 04:26:53 PM »

CAP doesn't have a recruiting problem, they have a retention problem. Eliminate the BS that causes members to walk away and membership numbers will soar.

You mean like stop treating SM like day one USAF recruits, yelling and disrespecting them in front of a classroom full of cadets, parents and other SM? Stopping that type of BS would probably help

5 Squadrons since 1972 - I have never EVER seen that, nor have I ever heard of that happening.
Lucky you then, because I have seen it twice in my short 18 months in CAP.


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042

That needs to be Neganed.
Neganed?


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,663
Unit: of issue

« Reply #25 on: September 05, 2017, 04:59:13 PM »

You can't grow without retention.

Without retention all you have is churn, which might be fine for affinity organizations,
but is death to organizations which need experience and expertise to fulfill their mission.

The sweet spot of "tens years experience" has essentially evaporated in the last decade,
and that's not something you can simply recruit your way out of.

Considering what little fire there is about recruiting (beyond rhetoric), there's nothing around
retention, or even much interest when long-term veterans, the people CAP needs most, either
quit abruptly, or start dialing down their presence.

There isn't even a way to actually track who's a real member.  So while I can't argue your
curve of new members, there's no way to actually know how many "real" members there are.

So what is our retention? Do you know?

As I said, could retention be better? Sure. No question.

Organizations will have retention loss.  Its a part of doing business. People grow up, they die, they take new jobs, they get divorces, their personal circumstances change, they lose their medicals, etc, etc, etc.

Anybody who says that CAP's retention needs to be nothing less than 100% is living in a fantasy land.

Organizations lose people all the time, even good ones. Look at whatever company you work for: surely you probably have ~ 80% retention (you sole proprietors can just step off.. LOL..). You lose people, you gain people. You're continually in the process of getting the right people on the bus and in the right seats.

So lets talk about that retention. 

Do you think senior member retention has taken a dive over the last 17 years or has it improved? Or is it about the same.

Hint: I can tell you that senior member retention has hovered around the same range for the the time we have that granular level of data.  Like with a couple percentage points. It varies, sure, and over time it goes up several or down several, but in the long run, across multiple "command regimes", its fairly flat.



Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Cicero
Forum Regular

Posts: 105

« Reply #26 on: September 05, 2017, 06:53:07 PM »

CAP doesn't have a recruiting problem, they have a retention problem. Eliminate the BS that causes members to walk away and membership numbers will soar.

You mean like stop treating SM like day one USAF recruits, yelling and disrespecting them in front of a classroom full of cadets, parents and other SM? Stopping that type of BS would probably help

5 Squadrons since 1972 - I have never EVER seen that, nor have I ever heard of that happening.
Lucky you then, because I have seen it twice in my short 18 months in CAP.


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042

That needs to be Neganed.
Neganed?


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042
Dunno what Neganed means but I'd drop a dime to the IG and find another unit ASAP. That is simply not acceptable. Shocking is the most temperate word I can think of.
Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,058
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #27 on: September 05, 2017, 07:13:36 PM »

Two things I've heard mentioned at every CAWG conference I've been to (about every three years):

Half the cadets in the organization have been members less than one year. That is certainly a retention issue. Reasons vary, as noted above.

If we retained ten percent of the people who bail at the end of their first year, we would have respectable growth every year. This has come from several different wing commanders over a period of 12 or 13 years.

I see cadet and senior member retention on separate but parallel paths. The reasons for leaving are sometimes different, as are potential solutions.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 686
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2017, 11:58:45 PM »

That might be a local issue. Sh....stuff like that doesn't fly in too many places, nor should it.

Sadly it's more prevalent then you might think, and sometimes new members take it for a short while
thinking that's "part of the game", making it worse when they find it isn't.

Where? I've been in five Squadrons, four Group HQs and a Wing HQ, some of them multiple times, over 50 years and have NEVER seen that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,980

« Reply #29 on: September 06, 2017, 12:14:11 AM »

So what is our retention? Do you know?

No, and neither do you, or anyone else at NHQ, and >that< is a HUGE problem in this regard.

No one knows because there is no definition of "retention", beyond the most pure, flat numbers of
members, and that number is literally meaningless.

The only thing NHQ actually has a handle on is "donors" - everyone who writes a check that clears is
a "donor", but that's meaningless in a real-world, "where are we" retention discussion.

Patrons aside, there are hundreds, likely thousands of members who haven't seen a unit meeting
or other activity in years, write a check out of habit or some sense of loyalty, and are zero
factor in regards to unit operations.  These people may well be "retained", but they are just "donors".

Couple that with the hundreds, possibly thousands, of cadets who leave for college, write checks for a couple of years
and then leave to never come back, yet are still counted as "members" for any number of years.

Until there is a definition of "active", trying to figure out "retention" is a useless endeavor.

Hint: I can tell you that senior member retention has hovered around the same range for the the time we have that granular level of data.  Like with a couple percentage points. It varies, sure, and over time it goes up several or down several, but in the long run, across multiple "command regimes", its fairly flat.

How many first-year members failed to renew in the last fiscal year? Why?

How many members with at least ten years in failed to renew?  Why?

How many new members were recruited in the last fiscal year?

How many members failed to renew in the last fiscal year?

How many >ACTIVE< members does this organization have?  Cadet and Senior.
For a baseline, an "active" member must have attended at least three meetings in the last fiscal year.

Recruiting and retention have little meaning if you don't know why you're looking for new people, or why they
are leaving, or more importantly, that they actually already left, and no one noticed or cared.
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,980

« Reply #30 on: September 06, 2017, 12:23:09 AM »

That might be a local issue. Sh....stuff like that doesn't fly in too many places, nor should it.

Sadly it's more prevalent then you might think, and sometimes new members take it for a short while
thinking that's "part of the game", making it worse when they find it isn't.

Where? I've been in five Squadrons, four Group HQs and a Wing HQ, some of them multiple times, over 50 years and have NEVER seen that.

Well, consider yourself lucky to have not had to deal with that kind of nonsense.

I'm not saying it's the norm, the fact that it's an outlier is why it's remarkable or noticeable.

In some cases it's a military guy who's going to "whip this unit into shape", and soon finds
himself "marching up and down the square" alone. Others it's a well-intentioned new
guy who has seen too many movies. More commonly it's someone who has no business being a CC,
or isn't but wants to drive from the rear, just being an jerk for no particular reason. People are people.

It's generally dealt with swiftly when it comes out, but a lot of times it takes a while
to be noticed, or some random other conversation opens a floodgate of "WTH?"

You haven't lived until you've had to deal with a member who some idiot made cry.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 12:28:24 AM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

grunt82abn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 201

« Reply #31 on: September 06, 2017, 12:24:45 AM »

That might be a local issue. Sh....stuff like that doesn't fly in too many places, nor should it.

Sadly it's more prevalent then you might think, and sometimes new members take it for a short while
thinking that's "part of the game", making it worse when they find it isn't.

Where? I've been in five Squadrons, four Group HQs and a Wing HQ, some of them multiple times, over 50 years and have NEVER seen that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just because you have NEVER seen it doesn't mean I haven't! Made my point, that's as much as I'm saying about that.


TSGT Sean Riley
IL-042
Logged
Sean Riley, TSGT
US Army 1987 to 1994, WIARNG 1994 to 2008
DoD Firefighter Paramedic 2000 to Present
RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 10,921

« Reply #32 on: September 06, 2017, 06:41:04 AM »

A little bit of training on how to recruit people never hurts. 

But the (mostly) untold story of senior member retention problems begins at the Wing or Group level.  As has been said, if you've got a senior interested in cadet programs, you're golden as there is always plenty of stuff for them to do. 

But, for seniors primarily motivated by ES, which I'd say is a significant majority of senior members, then the average squadron is going to have a hard time getting them trained and then called upon to use that training.  The Group or Wing ES program is going to be determinative in how long they stick around. 

An ES-motivated member that is an active Wing with lots of opportunity to learn and use their skills is usually going to be willing to put up with the minor hassles  found in CAP. 

Having a few more meetings with local and county officials will probably have more long-term impact on recruiting and retention than almost any recruiting event. 
Logged
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #33 on: September 06, 2017, 11:19:41 AM »

That might be a local issue. Sh....stuff like that doesn't fly in too many places, nor should it.

Sadly it's more prevalent then you might think, and sometimes new members take it for a short while
thinking that's "part of the game", making it worse when they find it isn't.

Where? I've been in five Squadrons, four Group HQs and a Wing HQ, some of them multiple times, over 50 years and have NEVER seen that.

Well, consider yourself lucky to have not had to deal with that kind of nonsense.

I'm not saying it's the norm, the fact that it's an outlier is why it's remarkable or noticeable.

In some cases it's a military guy who's going to "whip this unit into shape", and soon finds
himself "marching up and down the square" alone. Others it's a well-intentioned new
guy who has seen too many movies. More commonly it's someone who has no business being a CC,
or isn't but wants to drive from the rear, just being an jerk for no particular reason. People are people.

It's generally dealt with swiftly when it comes out, but a lot of times it takes a while
to be noticed, or some random other conversation opens a floodgate of "WTH?"

You haven't lived until you've had to deal with a member who some idiot made cry.


Of course, here I am, saying I've never seen it happen, yet I "yelled" at a room full of cadets and SMs last night. A presenter was at the front of the room, ready to roll into the slides. Cadets are seated, waiting. Some SMs are standing talking, others are sitting, talking. A helpful SM turns off the lights in the room (what a great sign, right?). Conversation continues...


I gave it 10 seconds. Felt like an eternity. People didn't get the hint. Here comes "ROOM, we have a presenter at the front of the room, the lights were dimmed as a sign to sit down and quiet down. Please respect your fellow member". Admittedly I was a bit mad, but I suppose that loud "ROOM" can be counted as yelling in someone else's ears.
Logged
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 686
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #34 on: September 06, 2017, 11:39:48 AM »

That might be a local issue. Sh....stuff like that doesn't fly in too many places, nor should it.

Sadly it's more prevalent then you might think, and sometimes new members take it for a short while
thinking that's "part of the game", making it worse when they find it isn't.

Where? I've been in five Squadrons, four Group HQs and a Wing HQ, some of them multiple times, over 50 years and have NEVER seen that.

Well, consider yourself lucky to have not had to deal with that kind of nonsense.

I'm not saying it's the norm, the fact that it's an outlier is why it's remarkable or noticeable.

In some cases it's a military guy who's going to "whip this unit into shape", and soon finds
himself "marching up and down the square" alone. Others it's a well-intentioned new
guy who has seen too many movies. More commonly it's someone who has no business being a CC,
or isn't but wants to drive from the rear, just being an jerk for no particular reason. People are people.

It's generally dealt with swiftly when it comes out, but a lot of times it takes a while
to be noticed, or some random other conversation opens a floodgate of "WTH?"

You haven't lived until you've had to deal with a member who some idiot made cry.

So, you're saying it is a rare event, doesn't last long and is dealt with? How rare? One Squadron? 12? 200? Over a one year period? 5? Since 1957?

If it's an aberration, then, yes, it's painful, hurtful, harmful to the organization, but certainly not a result of doctrine. It's a people problem, or more accurately probably a person problem. If the person who encounters it and posted it here reported it, I hope it was resolved. But I don't think it reasonable to tar all of CAP with it anymore than it is to tarvan airline for one bird strike crash.

As to your last point, well, I guess I must be pretty experienced then, as I've had to deal with that a lot over the years. Just not for the SM getting the Gunny Highway treatment from another Senior. (Jeez, doesn't anybody know how to say "go pound sand" anymore?)
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 686
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2017, 11:44:17 AM »

That might be a local issue. Sh....stuff like that doesn't fly in too many places, nor should it.

Sadly it's more prevalent then you might think, and sometimes new members take it for a short while
thinking that's "part of the game", making it worse when they find it isn't.

Where? I've been in five Squadrons, four Group HQs and a Wing HQ, some of them multiple times, over 50 years and have NEVER seen that.

Well, consider yourself lucky to have not had to deal with that kind of nonsense.

I'm not saying it's the norm, the fact that it's an outlier is why it's remarkable or noticeable.

In some cases it's a military guy who's going to "whip this unit into shape", and soon finds
himself "marching up and down the square" alone. Others it's a well-intentioned new
guy who has seen too many movies. More commonly it's someone who has no business being a CC,
or isn't but wants to drive from the rear, just being an jerk for no particular reason. People are people.

It's generally dealt with swiftly when it comes out, but a lot of times it takes a while
to be noticed, or some random other conversation opens a floodgate of "WTH?"

You haven't lived until you've had to deal with a member who some idiot made cry.


Of course, here I am, saying I've never seen it happen, yet I "yelled" at a room full of cadets and SMs last night. A presenter was at the front of the room, ready to roll into the slides. Cadets are seated, waiting. Some SMs are standing talking, others are sitting, talking. A helpful SM turns off the lights in the room (what a great sign, right?). Conversation continues...


I gave it 10 seconds. Felt like an eternity. People didn't get the hint. Here comes "ROOM, we have a presenter at the front of the room, the lights were dimmed as a sign to sit down and quiet down. Please respect your fellow member". Admittedly I was a bit mad, but I suppose that loud "ROOM" can be counted as yelling in someone else's ears.

Nah. 'tweren't yelling. Or abusive. Sometimes an amplified voice is needed just to be heard over the crowd. No different than using a PA system.
Logged
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,980

« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2017, 11:46:11 AM »

No one said it was doctrine - that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.  What does CAP do to prevent it?
COnsistent training expectations?  Ramifications for poor performance or repeated infractions?
(Stop me when I get to something that actually happens on a regular basis).

And no, the art of the STFU is lost these days, coupled with people being special snowflakes.

That's double for many "adults", and while what Майор Хаткевич is referring to above, I wouldn't put in the same category,
it's not out of the realm for someone to take offense to being told to "knock it off", especially if they felt their conversation
about that Facebook meme was more important then the class they are disrupting.

Brave new world...
Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,058
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2017, 04:47:10 PM »

Of course, here I am, saying I've never seen it happen, yet I "yelled" at a room full of cadets and SMs last night. A presenter was at the front of the room, ready to roll into the slides. Cadets are seated, waiting. Some SMs are standing talking, others are sitting, talking. A helpful SM turns off the lights in the room (what a great sign, right?). Conversation continues...


I gave it 10 seconds. Felt like an eternity. People didn't get the hint. Here comes "ROOM, we have a presenter at the front of the room, the lights were dimmed as a sign to sit down and quiet down. Please respect your fellow member". Admittedly I was a bit mad, but I suppose that loud "ROOM" can be counted as yelling in someone else's ears.

You were quite tactful Good for you. You used your "command voice" in a proper and effective manner.

OTOH, my ploy is simply a firm, "LISTEN UP!" in said command (instructor) voice. Gets their attention quickly, in a no nonsense way.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
etodd
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 847

« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2017, 05:05:39 PM »

The social aspect. Its a hard one to put in a report or study. How many seniors in your squadron will meet somewhere for a quick dinner before heading to the meeting? Or meet for lunch on other days? How many plane crews doing proficiency cross country flights stop somewhere, grab a crew car and go eat? How many UDF teams meet up somewhere for some beacon practice, and then keep yakking by the cars for another hour before leaving?  Is your squadron 'all business' with maybe a chuckle here and there, or is everyone becoming friends 'outside' of CAP?

These things matter. And its not the food.
Logged
MS - MO - AP - MP
Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2017, 05:23:46 PM »

The social aspect. Its a hard one to put in a report or study. How many seniors in your squadron will meet somewhere for a quick dinner before heading to the meeting? Or meet for lunch on other days? How many plane crews doing proficiency cross country flights stop somewhere, grab a crew car and go eat? How many UDF teams meet up somewhere for some beacon practice, and then keep yakking by the cars for another hour before leaving?  Is your squadron 'all business' with maybe a chuckle here and there, or is everyone becoming friends 'outside' of CAP?

These things matter. And its not the food.


We're all business. It doesn't mean that I didn't call someone an old salt, imply that I only tolerate the VC because he's the VC (while he is in the room), or make fun of myself during the meeting. One does not have to be separated from the other, but audience, and balance matter.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Targeted Recruiting and the Re-imagining of the Senior Member Experience
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.13 | SMF © 2016, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.302 seconds with 20 queries.