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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Could Squadron Chaplain be Finance Officer?
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deats1
Newbie

Posts: 2
Unit: ner-nj-086

« on: August 22, 2017, 08:32:50 AM »

Hi,

Does anyone know could the squadron chaplain also be the squadron finance officer? According to reg 265-1 it looked like the only job duties the chaplain can't take are CAP command, Deputy commander, testing officer, or designated investigation officer.

Thanks much!

Deats

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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 09:02:40 AM »

Yes, but it's not a good idea.
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 361
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 04:39:53 PM »

Yes, but it's not a good idea.
+1.  Experience in my unit would support not doing that.
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Shieldel
Member

Posts: 85
Unit: PCR-NV-802

« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 05:43:46 PM »

Not against regs but poor practice, I could personally see a conflict of interest rising out of that just from thinking logically (no implication there, sorry if I seem crass, I'm a little punchy).
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Flight Officer Michael D. Scheidle
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deats1
Newbie

Posts: 2
Unit: ner-nj-086

« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 05:49:34 PM »

Your comments make sense and agree.  Thank you for the feedback!
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EMT-83
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Posts: 1,819

« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2017, 06:32:23 PM »

Not against regs but poor practice, I could personally see a conflict of interest rising out of that just from thinking logically (no implication there, sorry if I seem crass, I'm a little punchy).

I can't imagine that a "conflict of interest" could ever occur. With Chaplains handling the money, I'd bet that most of the financial nonsense prior to the Wing Banker program never would have happened.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2017, 06:49:36 PM »

People have honest disagreements over how to spend money all
time. A Chaplain should be outside that.
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JacobAnn
Member

Posts: 75

« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2017, 08:00:15 AM »

Unfortunately some squadrons are so light on senior members that some wear more hats than they would like to.  I have to appreciate their sense of stepping up to the plate.
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 361
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2017, 10:27:45 AM »

People have honest disagreements over how to spend money all
time. A Chaplain should be outside that.
+1.  That said, I also appreciate JacobAnn's comments about willingness to do the work.  On balance, the Chaplain needs to be outside of this type of role and they might well have some conflict - some units do have a Chaplain Corps budget and you can't be the finance officer at the same time as being a 'budget holder'...not really.  Sadly, enthusiasm apart, somebody else has to take this one!
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Alaric
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Posts: 750

« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2017, 01:59:46 PM »

Not against regs but poor practice, I could personally see a conflict of interest rising out of that just from thinking logically (no implication there, sorry if I seem crass, I'm a little punchy).

I can't imagine that a "conflict of interest" could ever occur. With Chaplains handling the money, I'd bet that most of the financial nonsense prior to the Wing Banker program never would have happened.

That presumes Chaplains are less prone to temptation and wrongdoing then other human beings.  Since they are human, I'm going to say that that's a pretty big assumption
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,159

« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2017, 06:36:33 PM »

Let's look at it functionally. What does the squadron FM do? Basically balances the check book and keeps minutes of finance meetings. With the full implementation of the wing banker program, the special promotions for CPAs and Finance professionals was dropped, except for ones serving as wing FM. When planning the budget, all seniors should have input. Yes, even the Chaplain. The FM is not out spending money willy-nilly, nor are they setting priorities for how the money is spent.
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Chappie
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2017, 09:13:46 PM »

Shieldel is "spot on"...while the regs don't prohibit a Chaplain serving in that role, it is not a best practice.   A Chaplain should be available in cases where mediation is needed in conflict....and finances is a potential area of conflict.   It is not the amount of money that is on hand...but who gets to spend what.   I have no problem with a Chaplain serving in another role like historian, professional development, aerospace education or cadet programs...but finance officer -- no way.
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Al Sayre
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Mississippi Wing
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2017, 09:23:56 AM »

Depends...  When I was a Sq/CC, I had 3 Chaplains in my squadron, one of whom also was rated in the Financial Management Specialty Track, so he was also pegged as our Finance Officer.  Also consider that most Chaplains have some level of experience in fund raising etc., so it may be a good fit depending on the individual Chaplain and the Squadrons circumstances.
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,159

« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2017, 09:48:37 AM »

Shieldel is "spot on"...while the regs don't prohibit a Chaplain serving in that role, it is not a best practice.   A Chaplain should be available in cases where mediation is needed in conflict....and finances is a potential area of conflict.   It is not the amount of money that is on hand...but who gets to spend what.   I have no problem with a Chaplain serving in another role like historian, professional development, aerospace education or cadet programs...but finance officer -- no way.
So, following your logic, a Chaplain should have no say in determining how unit monies are spent, since their role is to mediate differences in opinion, not have one themselves.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2017, 10:34:44 AM »

So, following your logic, a Chaplain should have no say in determining how unit monies are spent, since their role is to mediate differences in opinion, not have one themselves.

Why would a Chaplain, or anyone else not on the Finance Committee, have any "say" how unit funds are spent?

That's why you have a Finance Committee - if members want or need something, they request reimbursement (in advance),
or request it be added to the budget, beyond that, no involvement.
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s.cap
Recruit

Posts: 7
Unit: SER-GA-045

« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2017, 07:52:18 PM »

Is this related to Cadet Programs Management & Activities?
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,058
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2017, 11:11:53 PM »

Is this related to Cadet Programs Management & Activities?

Can you suggest a more appropriate place for it?
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
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s.cap
Recruit

Posts: 7
Unit: SER-GA-045

« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2017, 11:25:49 PM »

My apologies, it seems like a popular topic I'm not following.

I've been able to gather and learn quite a bit of good information from these forums and I thank all who participate.

Perhaps Membership? 
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,058
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2017, 04:12:14 AM »

Sure, why not. Works for me.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
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Chappie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,051

« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2017, 05:22:00 PM »

Shieldel is "spot on"...while the regs don't prohibit a Chaplain serving in that role, it is not a best practice.   A Chaplain should be available in cases where mediation is needed in conflict....and finances is a potential area of conflict.   It is not the amount of money that is on hand...but who gets to spend what.   I have no problem with a Chaplain serving in another role like historian, professional development, aerospace education or cadet programs...but finance officer -- no way.
So, following your logic, a Chaplain should have no say in determining how unit monies are spent, since their role is to mediate differences in opinion, not have one themselves.

Being a "Finance Officer" and having a say in how unit monies are spent are different issues IMHO.  As a Chaplain, I have submitted  a budget to sq/wing/region for approval -- and had to defend my requests.   And there have been those occasions where members with a passion for their area of responsibility expressed their opinion strongly (and loudly) ... where a Chaplain -- as a fellow staff member -- can have a calming influence of these discussions.  Personally, I would never serve on the finance committee.  I have no problem is offering ideas -- when asked -- about fund raising,etc.  since as a pastor/leader of a largely volunteer organization (not all parishes are blessed to have paid staff...but rely on volunteers) one does have a bit of experience and insight on fund-raising, budgets, recruiting for positions and retention of members, etc.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 879

« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2017, 11:23:07 AM »

+1 to Chappie's points.


We had this topic a while back in regard to our Chaplain also being our Safety Officer.

One side argued that the role of the Safety Officer was a non-command role, and, therefore, had no conflict of interest so long as they were not making command decisions as to the squadron's overall conduct and direction.

The other side argued that the role of the Safety Officer has a huge factor in the decision making process, go/no-go analyses regarding safety---basically being the "bad guy" at times. It was felt that the Chaplain should not hold this role because it can put him/her in a position of being unapproachable from the mentor/counselor standpoint.

I have to agree with the latter. I feel that the Chaplain, regardless of the Chaplain's own opinions and unbiased merits, should not be included in the processes that affect the dynamic direction and mission of the unit. This is more so coming from my own experiences and never seeing the primary unit Chaplain as holding another post within the unit; although, I have seen Chaplain's Assistants serve in dual roles but in a non-counseling role while serving under the Chaplain.

I think when it comes to finances, I don't necessarily see the issue in the Chaplain being a part of budget discussions in developing the overall squadron financial plan, but in the approval/disapproval process, it starts to take them out the role as being the go-to counseling figure and turns them into an adversary when it comes to operational and morale expenditures. I would really caution that.
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