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Pace
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« on: July 25, 2017, 12:39:40 PM »

Maybe I'm looking in the wrong spot on the NESA and NHQ websites, but I'm trying to determine the tuition and average total cost to attend the intermediate and advanced pilot courses (assuming no changes) at NESA. TIA.
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Lt Col, CAP
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Spaceman3750
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Posts: 2,599

« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 12:52:48 PM »

This year the cost was $190/week for a full week course, plus a $60 fee to cover your t-shirts and ballcap, totaling $250. This covers tuition, housing (open bay barracks, VOQ available at your expense and arrangement subject to availability), and food.

http://nesa.cap.gov/participant-info-cost/
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"Anyone can hold the helm when the seas are calm ... leadership is about weathering the storm."

The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Pace
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« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 02:24:27 PM »

Perfect. Thank you
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Lt Col, CAP
Former C/Lt Col
Former this & that
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Live2Learn
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Posts: 420

« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2017, 12:19:06 PM »

Perfect. Thank you

Dunno where you're coming in from, travel costs easily dwarf the tuition/meals/knickknack costs.  I think my total cost to attend a few years ago was around $3000 including airfare, airport parking for my pickup,  offsite lodging at NESA, and a rental car for the week or so of the course. 

The course was interesting, but REALLY heavy on dense powerpoints which instructors read verbatim. Support people were fantastic, as was the chow.  I can't speak to the BOQ or barracks.  I've spent a lot of time in communal sleeping arrangements, so decided to forego that experience for the session I attended.  I did hear good feedback from others who slept in the barracks, so might go that route in a future NESA experience.   

Flight training was interesting.  I firmly believe in "Train as I'll fly, and I'll fly as I trained".  The most interesting thing I observed during my Intermediate MP course was the "do as I say, not as I do" approach to safety on the flight line.  Stuff like cadre moving aircraft (with pilot still in the left seat) into a tiedown area by pushing down on the tail, another cadre member spinning the prop of a recently flown aircraft when the starter wouldn't engage due to a missing tooth on the ring gear, etc.  Very educational for my western 'safe aviation ops' eyes.  Where I fly current weather, TFRs, and stuff like that is pretty important for flight safety.  Merely reading old material posted on the bulletin board is not an acceptable substitute for an adequate pre-flight brief - an essential step in mountain flying during a fire TFR rich environment.

I provided feedback to the NHQ coordinator with point by point observations.  He thanked me, but I've not attended any subsequent NESAs so don't know if things were tightened up a bit.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 12:43:25 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
Alaric
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Posts: 732

« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2017, 12:34:12 PM »

Perfect. Thank you

Dunno where you're coming in from, travel costs easily dwarf the tuition/meals/knickknack costs.  I think my total cost to attend a few years ago was around $3000 including airfare, airport parking for my pickup,  offsite lodging at NESA, and a rental car for the week or so of the course. 

The course was interesting, but REALLY heavy on dense powerpoints which instructors read verbatim.  The most interesting thing I observed was the "do as I say, not as I do" approach to safety on the flight line.  Stuff like cadre moving aircraft (with pilot still in the left seat) into a tiedown area by pushing down on the tail, another cadre member spinning the prop of a recently flown aircraft when the starter wouldn't engage due to a missing tooth on the ring gear, etc.  Very educational for my western 'safe aviation ops' eyes.

And did you report any of these things to the Safety Officer (Lt Col Volungus) or the MAS Commandant (Lt Col Templeton), presuming these things occurred in the last 8 years?  I've been going to NESA since 2010  and have never seen those kind of safety violations and as I've seen Lt Col Templeton come down hard on safety offenders color me surprised
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Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2017, 02:59:58 PM »

Hand propping? WTH?

You either stop it then, report it immediately, or never mention it ever again.

Same goes for weather. Pilot gets his own from authoritative source not a white board.  CAP-UASF hates that nonsense. BTDT.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Live2Learn
Seasoned Member

Posts: 420

« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2017, 03:54:01 PM »

Hand propping? WTH?

You either stop it then, report it immediately, or never mention it ever again.

Same goes for weather. Pilot gets his own from authoritative source not a white board.  CAP-UASF hates that nonsense. BTDT.

Eclipse, et. al., I'd like to say "agree" and move on [i.e. "never mention it ever again."]  Unfortunately, dumb stuff that falls into "do as I say, not as I do" appears somewhat regularly.  And it's my observation we {Humans} don't invent much that's new.   Humans.  I've observed equally glaring stuff, both before those mentioned above, and more recently.  Humans, again.  And I've been the recipient of problems passed along by this attitude.  Humans.  I don't name names when discussing past observations.  THAT's the stuff for immediate reports, which may or may not effectively address undesirable behaviors.  More Humans.  All that said, while names are not mentioned after, places and activities ...  that's an open topic given the recurring nature of these occurrences directly associated with Humans.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 07:41:22 PM »

The question was asked how long ago the issue you cited occurred.  NESA has a reputation of a
strong safety culture, both in the air and on the ground, and if true, the leaders would want to know about the issues.
If it happened in a different decade or century, not really relevent today.

You either stop it then, report it immediately, or never mention it ever again.

I said it this way because far too many members are perfectly happy to watch things
they know are wrong (in this case hand-propping violates 60-1), say nothing at the
time to "keep peace" or "not make waves", and then bring it up at every opportunity in
an effort to impugn, or add fire to someone else's impugning, of an activity's or the whole organization's reputation.

CAP members are 10th-level Wisdom Keepers - storing up "examples" of places CAP made a serious safety or other
error for later use as an example of "whatever", despite the fact that this egregious error was not stopped or
corrected on site, nor reported later.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

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