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Author Topic: USAF appears to be quietly transitioning to OCP stateside...  (Read 4806 times)
Eclipse
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« on: July 23, 2017, 02:49:31 PM »

This is all rumor, conjecture, unconfirmed sources, and innuendo, but with that said, appears to
be happening, and I'm sure some of you in the active and reserve forces have heard similar.

An increasing number of specialties are posting in various places that they have transitioned to, or
are authorized to wear OCP.  For those of you with less free time, OCP (Operational Camouflage Pattern)
is the new(ish) field uniform camo pattern now being worn by the Army and other forces deployed in
middle-eastern combat areas since about 2015.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operational_Camouflage_Pattern



While originally characterized as "only for those deploying, and only in theater", it has crept in stateside and you
occasionally see it on various bases even for those not deploying.

The CMSAF has been quoted in a recent "All Call" at Wright Patt, verified by others who were there, that the USAF 2017 uniform
board would be recommending OCP for all personnel, and I have now seen several un-attributable rumor-mill sources that other CMS's are offhandedly
making statements that all hands would be in OCP by 2019. (Which is a reasonable timeline for a recommendation made this FY).
As of writing this the FY2017 Uniform board's recommendations have not been made public.

The general sentiment as far as I can tell is "good riddance", though there are always those who prefer "now", vs., "next", and
some are not excited about the idea of many patches coming back to the USAF.

So, I want to get in on the pool early...

My bet is that by the time CAP completes its overly extended transition to ABUs in 2021, the USAF will no longer be wearing them,
which would top the new list of "typical CAP".

Discuss, deny, decry, or snicker...
« Last Edit: July 23, 2017, 04:30:27 PM by Eclipse » Logged

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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #1 on: July 23, 2017, 02:58:15 PM »

You, Mister, are on the verge of initiating our next CAP big dilemma...


When will CAP authorize OCP for its members?


 >:D
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abdsp51
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« Reply #2 on: July 23, 2017, 05:09:27 PM »

There are some AFSC's CONUS that wear OCP's daily.  Some of these are EOD, SF (currently only missle cops), CCT/PJ, JTAC, TAACP, and I have heard those assigned to AFSOC (nothing than hearsay on that).  So yes there are some members of the AF who wear OCPs on a daily basis CONUS. 

Personally, I can care less I am on the down hill slope to retirement and wont matter much to me anyway. 
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CyBorgII
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« Reply #3 on: July 23, 2017, 06:01:07 PM »

I saw an Army Staff Sergeant wearing them in McDonalds a couple of weeks ago.  Not sure if he was AD or Guard, but I'm going to guess Guard because Michigan has no active duty military facilities to my knowledge, except for USCG.  All others are reserve component of some kind; ie Camp Grayling and Selfridge ANGB.

They actually remind me of the Flecktarn camouflage worn by the German Bundeswehr except the colours aren't as vivid.

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EMT-83
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2017, 07:41:07 PM »

German uniforms. Cyborg's back.
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Jester
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« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 08:03:24 PM »

There are some AFSC's CONUS that wear OCP's daily.  Some of these are EOD, SF (currently only missle cops), CCT/PJ, JTAC, TAACP, and I have heard those assigned to AFSOC (nothing than hearsay on that).  So yes there are some members of the AF who wear OCPs on a daily basis CONUS. 

Personally, I can care less I am on the down hill slope to retirement and wont matter much to me anyway.


820th is wearing them CONUS. It's possible that's because it's easier for the unit to replace if they get trashed in the field. At least that's why we wore DCUs stateside back in the day.


I assume CRGs are as well but I'm not sure. I think Desert Defender cadre may have them going by their Facebook page.

I think they're coming and within the next 2-3 years.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 08:13:24 PM »

There are some AFSC's CONUS that wear OCP's daily.  Some of these are EOD, SF (currently only missle cops), CCT/PJ, JTAC, TAACP, and I have heard those assigned to AFSOC (nothing than hearsay on that).  So yes there are some members of the AF who wear OCPs on a daily basis CONUS. 

Personally, I can care less I am on the down hill slope to retirement and wont matter much to me anyway.


820th is wearing them CONUS. It's possible that's because it's easier for the unit to replace if they get trashed in the field. At least that's why we wore DCUs stateside back in the day.


I assume CRGs are as well but I'm not sure. I think Desert Defender cadre may have them going by their Facebook page.

I think they're coming and within the next 2-3 years.

CRGs are not wearing OCPs CONUS.  And as stated before some AFSCs are but the AF as a whole are not.  There are already issues with obtaining them so they will not be coming AF wide anytime soon.
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PHall
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« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2017, 08:56:12 PM »

The units that work with the Army on a daily basis seem to be the one's wearing the OCP stateside. Of course they were the ones who wore the ACU too.
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NIN
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« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2017, 10:04:11 PM »

German uniforms. Cyborg's back.
Beat me to it.

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NIN
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2017, 10:11:46 PM »

I was headed up to encampment graduation this morning,  stopped at the local truck fuel place to get gas,  and one of the units from an armory up north was headed out for AT and stopped for potty / fuel. 50/50 mix of soldiers in ACU and OCP.

(I didn't expect a rain of salutes walking out of the gas station with my coffee,  either)

The army is definitely on it's way to OCP, ACU is out.

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Nick
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« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2017, 11:06:05 PM »

My money is that AF is transitioning pretty consistent with Eclipse’s timeline based on the rumor mills I hear, and CAP will get a hefty stock of surplus ABUs and will not be authorized to transition to OCP.


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PHall
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2017, 11:27:57 PM »

Of course you would be hard pressed to provide a realistic need for the Air Force to be in camouflage in the first place, at least in CONUS.
When you deploy it's a different story, but that's why you have Deployment Bags. But in CONUS the Air Force could easily do it's job in Blue BDU's.
Just sayin'.
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Mustang
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« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2017, 04:36:41 AM »

You, Mister, are on the verge of initiating our next CAP big dilemma...


When will CAP authorize OCP for its members?


 >:D

Since you haven't detected the pattern: right about the time USAF transitions to something else.
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ColonelJack
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« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2017, 07:02:22 AM »

Of course you would be hard pressed to provide a realistic need for the Air Force to be in camouflage in the first place, at least in CONUS.
When you deploy it's a different story, but that's why you have Deployment Bags. But in CONUS the Air Force could easily do it's job in Blue BDU's.
Just sayin'.

This actually mirrors my thoughts about the Navy's version of a camouflage uniform for work aboard ships.  While I do understand some of the "whys and wherefores" (stains from oils, etc., don't show up as much), I've never been able to wrap my head around why the Navy would choose a BLUE camouflage uniform.  I mean, if you fall overboard, don't you WANT somebody to see you??

Jack
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« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2017, 07:25:28 AM »

 that's going away
 My former sq commander's wife is a new Navy ensign. She started her Navy career in the blue camo less than a year ago. 

She just got the *new* new camo.  The green - based one


And she's a surface warfare officer,  not a snipe or some on-shore duty.

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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2017, 08:28:32 AM »

Quote

Since you haven't detected the pattern: right about the time USAF transitions to something else.


Ohh, I know the pattern. I was just introducing the topic that half of those posting about uniforms and uniform changes ends asking about. They are the ones that do not know the pattern.

Quote

She just got the *new* new camo.  The green - based one


Nin, kelp and other algae are green... that's why the Navy camo...
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deepblue1947
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« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2017, 11:11:11 AM »

I guess I just keep it simple.  Wear the Dark Navy BDU's and go on.  I could care less about which Camo pattern they choose.

MG
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zippity
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« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 11:32:20 AM »

What is this common-sense posting you're bringing in here? You must be new. :D
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deepblue1947
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« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2017, 11:48:59 AM »

Hi Zippity, that got me to laughing.  Yes I have been in CAP for a year but am an old Air Force veteran from the Vietnam era.  I guess which Camo pattern is going to be authorized for CAP wear is important to some folks but I just found it simpler and more economical to narrow the choices of uniforms to the basics.  Maybe my age has something to do with as I will be 70 in December and I don't sweat this kind of stuff.  I thought the 1505 and 1549 uniforms back in the day were fine and comfortable but eventually the Air Force phased them out for something new and better. 

MG
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 02:48:26 PM by deepblue1947 » Logged
Mordecai
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« Reply #19 on: July 24, 2017, 03:45:15 PM »

I actually prefer having cadets in ABUs. It makes them easier to spot.
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ColonelJack
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« Reply #20 on: July 24, 2017, 03:54:31 PM »

that's going away
 My former sq commander's wife is a new Navy ensign. She started her Navy career in the blue camo less than a year ago. 

She just got the *new* new camo.  The green - based one


And she's a surface warfare officer,  not a snipe or some on-shore duty.

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Not to hijack the thread or anything, but ... WHY does the Navy need camouflage anything on a ship?????  Shore duties, I can see.  If you're SEAL or other very special personage who engages in a lot of the shooting, yes, most assuredly.

But on a ship?  What purpose does camouflage on a ship serve?

Jack
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2017, 04:06:57 PM »

Well, there are different types of algae in the sea... Green and brown. Reddish brown and so. One is Kelp, another is moss, and others...
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Eclipse
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« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2017, 06:11:52 PM »

They don't generally wear the camo once onboard. Most wear the dark
blue bduesque combo, or some other uniform.
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NIN
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« Reply #23 on: July 24, 2017, 07:59:56 PM »

They don't generally wear the camo once onboard. Most wear the dark
blue bduesque combo, or some other uniform.
Ok. I'll make sure the ensign tells her shipmates....

Cuz they wear that uniform on board the ship from the photos I've seen so far.

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SarDragon
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« Reply #24 on: July 24, 2017, 09:32:18 PM »

Of course you would be hard pressed to provide a realistic need for the Air Force to be in camouflage in the first place, at least in CONUS.
When you deploy it's a different story, but that's why you have Deployment Bags. But in CONUS the Air Force could easily do it's job in Blue BDU's.
Just sayin'.

This actually mirrors my thoughts about the Navy's version of a camouflage uniform for work aboard ships.  While I do understand some of the "whys and wherefores" (stains from oils, etc., don't show up as much), I've never been able to wrap my head around why the Navy would choose a BLUE camouflage uniform.  I mean, if you fall overboard, don't you WANT somebody to see you??

Jack

Based on my underway experience, the new uniforms don't seem to be any less visible in the water than the old dungaree working uniform they replaced.
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« Reply #25 on: July 24, 2017, 09:36:53 PM »

They don't generally wear the camo once onboard. Most wear the dark
blue bduesque combo, or some other uniform.

Really?

Underway uniform depends a lot on the assigned work center. The really dirty places get coveralls, issued to the sailor. Clean work centers get the standard working uniform - the blue cammies. Chiefs and officers generally wear working khakis, unless in one of the dirty areas, then they, too, wear the blue coveralls.
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kwe1009
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« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2017, 09:25:12 AM »

To go back to the OP and away from discussing what the Navy may or may not wear, I wouldn't say the USAF is quietly transitioning to OCP.  What is happening is very similar to what happened in the 1980's with the transition to BDUs.  Those USAF personnel who worked closely with the Army or Special Ops wore BDUs while all other USAF wore OD.  Even the USAF personnel that were stationed in USAFE were issued BDUs but weren't allowed to wear them stateside.

Hopefully ABUs will be gone from the USAF soon but I'm not holding my breath.  It is definitely one of the worst uniforms that I have ever had to wear on many levels.  It is a decent uniform for CAP since it helps with visibility in the field.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2017, 11:47:56 AM »

What you are getting.....is anyone who can justify it....even a little bit....are wearing the TACTI-COOL uniform.

As Kwe said...back in the 80's the same thing happened with the BDUs. So...yes the USAF is quietly moving to OCP's...because eventually someone is going to ask their chief will ask THE CHIEF who will ask THE BOSS and then it will make it to the Uniform Board.

So....sometime between now and the next 10 years the USAF will change over to OCP.  And if I had my way CAP would change right along with them.
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« Reply #28 on: July 30, 2017, 01:04:26 PM »

I'm not a fan of OCPs. In my opinion, they don't fit as well as BDUs or ABUs. They also tend to fade a lot faster. My last pair looked like I've worn them for 6 moths to a year after only 4 or 5 washes. That said, I don't doubt the Air Force will be moving in that direction eventually. CAP will probably take much longer to go to OCPs.
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CAPLTC
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« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2017, 08:33:20 PM »

Agree.  The fabric is for crap and it fits funny.
PEO Soldier promised they'd fix the waistline that reaches a man's ribcage - and leads to saggy crotch which leads to rips. The FRACU addressed this with a shorter rise, unsure why they went back to stupid.
The Afghan-issue FRACU in Multicam is, hands down, the BEST uniform I have ever been issued in 23 years of doing Army stuff.

I'm not a fan of OCPs. In my opinion, they don't fit as well as BDUs or ABUs. They also tend to fade a lot faster. My last pair looked like I've worn them for 6 moths to a year after only 4 or 5 washes. That said, I don't doubt the Air Force will be moving in that direction eventually. CAP will probably take much longer to go to OCPs.
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ZigZag911
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« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2017, 05:46:17 PM »

The only possible excuse for camouflage uniforms in CAP is to attract new cadet members.

For reasons that completely escape me (my cadet years being of "pickle suit" vintage!) modern kids delight in walking around looking like shrubbery!!!

IMHO, senior should all transition to BBDU.
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Jester
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« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2017, 06:14:17 PM »

According to the AF subreddit, as of 3 August a recommendation had been submitted to transition to OCPs by a BG Davis. If that wasn't feasible, the next recommended course of action was unit patches on ABUs. Uniform Board decisions are pending.
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PHall
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« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2017, 08:36:22 PM »

According to the AF subreddit, as of 3 August a recommendation had been submitted to transition to OCPs by a BG Davis. If that wasn't feasible, the next recommended course of action was unit patches on ABUs. Uniform Board decisions are pending.

This is probably the fourth or fifth time they have tried to get patches back. All of the previous attempts were rejected or I don't think this attempt will get approval either. One big reason, money, the patches have to be provided at no cost to enlisted troops. Money that can be used for other things that are needed more.
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PA Guy
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« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2017, 09:25:37 PM »

IMHO, senior should all transition to BBDU.

Yes. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
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Jester
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« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2017, 11:26:42 PM »

According to the AF subreddit, as of 3 August a recommendation had been submitted to transition to OCPs by a BG Davis. If that wasn't feasible, the next recommended course of action was unit patches on ABUs. Uniform Board decisions are pending.

This is probably the fourth or fifth time they have tried to get patches back. All of the previous attempts were rejected or I don't think this attempt will get approval either. One big reason, money, the patches have to be provided at no cost to enlisted troops. Money that can be used for other things that are needed more.

My gut feeling is that OCPs have a better chance than ABU patches. After 10 years people are just fed up with it. Time to admit it had a decent service life and go on to something much more useful. Basically parallel with the UCP ACU.

It's really no skin off my nose any longer but it is interesting to follow.
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« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2017, 09:49:51 PM »

I'm currently stationed on a Global Strike base, and all the cops wear the OCPs, with our commander telling us to get ready for OCPs for us...
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« Reply #36 on: August 14, 2017, 08:14:49 AM »

IMHO, senior should all transition to BBDU.

Yes. :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

And this is why I just wear the polo/grey combo.... LOL
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Nikos
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« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2017, 07:33:45 PM »

For us "younger" guys, what is a 1505 uniform?
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SarDragon
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« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2017, 09:50:12 PM »

For us "younger" guys, what is a 1505 uniform?

1505 uniform image

Really, Google and Yahoo! are your friends.
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« Reply #39 on: August 29, 2017, 08:14:49 AM »

Sar, your response was a non-response. Clicking on your link gave me a lot of pickle suits, BDUs, Khakis, even a Prusian soldier!

So your response was "ANYTHING goes as a 1505?" Hardly what I expected with your experience!

 >:D

 ;D

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indiaXray
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« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2017, 08:33:39 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)
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kwe1009
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« Reply #41 on: August 29, 2017, 09:11:33 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

We did that for decade with the BDU, OD, and other utility uniforms.  All it accomplished was saving taxpayer money (not having each branch spend millions on uniform development).  The downside was that it cost many high-ranking officer valuable performance report statements and it also kept some Chiefs of Staff from being able to say that they created their branch's uniform.  Why would we ever want to go back to a common uniform?  Just think of all of the officers who would be denied the opportunity to claim these uniforms.  Also what about the different clothing manufacturers who receive those millions of dollars to develop needless uniforms?   >:D
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Eclipse
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« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2017, 10:03:21 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

Back around 2012 the GAO directed that this essentially happen, and that directive has been somewhat ignored, though now it appears to be happening organically.
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« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2017, 04:05:13 PM »

Sar, your response was a non-response. Clicking on your link gave me a lot of pickle suits, BDUs, Khakis, even a Prusian soldier!

So your response was "ANYTHING goes as a 1505?" Hardly what I expected with your experience!

 >:D

 ;D

Come on. Most of the pics are captioned, making it easy to see which are the uniforms in question.
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« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2017, 04:25:38 PM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
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« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2017, 05:37:17 PM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)
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« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2017, 07:46:21 PM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

For combat/field uniforms, different services have different missions.  If we didn't, we wouldn't need ~four different branches of the armed forces.

For dress uniforms, on the other hand, I roll my eyes with the other posters in the unnecessary changes.  The Army went from greens to blues, and now there are strong rumors they may change again to the WW2 era pink and greens?

Commo

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CyBorgII
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Posts: 54
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2017, 01:55:36 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

My ex-brother-in-law was in the Army when the change to BDU's came in the '80s.  At first he hated them, saying they were going to be hard to make look good for inspections, because of the way they were cut, but he admitted it would probably save a lot of money in the long run.

I do not see why the services have largely jettisoned the BDU (except for a handful of CG units) and gone back into their own parochialism of what camouflage is "best."  A body is a body is a body and the intention of camouflage is to break up the outline and visibility of that body.  It does not matter if the body inside the uniform is a Soldier, Sailor, Airman, Coastie or Marine.  You can be service-differentiated by your dress uniforms.  The Taliban, ISIS/ISIL, etc aren't going to care which service the troop they're sniping at is in.

I like the ODU that the CG (and Auxiliary) wears.  No real pretence at camouflage, just a working duty uniform.  That's why I preferred the BBDU when I was in CAP.

The way the USA handles such matters is anachronistic compared to the rest of the world, especially our NATO colleagues.

Canada wears CADPAT for a combat uniform, no matter if you're Army, RCAF or RCN.  When you go to Canadian basic training - which encompasses all three services training together - that is what you are issued.  The only way you are differentiated is the colour of your beret (and I know that berets are taboo in the US armed forces, except for special-ops types).



Britain is moving to Multi-Terrain Pattern (MTP) camouflage.



The Netherlands' troops wear this:



Granted, there is some parochialism left.  The Royal Australian Air Force has issued this multi-blue "camouflage" as a work uniform, but they don't pretend it's camouflage in the strictest sense...they came up with it simply because it looks like the sky!



However, if deployed to field conditions, Aussie airmen and women will wear the same thing their Army counterparts wear (as seen on the bloke in the background).

Note: no pictures of Bundeswehr/former NVA uniforms, because certain individuals on here have seized on my citing such things in the past - mostly grey service uniforms to illustrate CAP's attachment to that non-colour - as "evidence" that I have a fixation on all things German. ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

However, I will illustrate Swiss camouflage (which both of their armed services use) as my ancestry is Swiss, anyway, not German... :P



I just don't see the sense of having a multitude of camouflage uniforms based on each services perceived aesthetics.
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indiaXray
Recruit

Posts: 13
Unit: MER-DC-026

« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2017, 08:32:14 AM »

Quote
The only way you are differentiated is the colour of your beret.

I guess it's what you're used to.  As an army cadet in the UK, my beret was Army Air Corps blue, made by Kangool.  Regional cadet courses with other units were always very colourful with different shades and styles (for Scottish/Irish cadets) of headgear.  The first few minutes of each course were spent in headgear admiration, finding out what regiments everyone was attached to.  Stable belts too added a splash of colour to then ubiquitous DPM combat uniform.  There was no mess, no fuss, no sewing.  In my experience, it was a uniform that you could get ready quickly and move on to doing more important things, like training or prep.  The new Multi-Terrain Pattern (MTP) pattern now in use with HM Forces looks nice though. It should be in use for another twenty five years or so....

« Last Edit: August 30, 2017, 08:35:19 AM by indiaXray » Logged
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stillamarine
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« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2017, 09:27:05 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)

The Marines felt the need for a camouflage uniform that worked. Everyone else just wanted to be like us. If we wanted to rebrand we would have changed all our uniforms...........kinda like the Army.
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

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« Reply #50 on: August 30, 2017, 10:02:47 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)

The Marines felt the need for a camouflage uniform that worked. Everyone else just wanted to be like us. If we wanted to rebrand we would have changed all our uniforms...........kinda like the Army.

More like they found themselves flush with cash and instead of doing something smart with it, they just made some contractor richer.
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Strup
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kwe1009
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Posts: 695

« Reply #51 on: August 30, 2017, 10:04:24 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

For combat/field uniforms, different services have different missions.  If we didn't, we wouldn't need ~four different branches of the armed forces.

For dress uniforms, on the other hand, I roll my eyes with the other posters in the unnecessary changes.  The Army went from greens to blues, and now there are strong rumors they may change again to the WW2 era pink and greens?

Commo

No reason to have different cammo patterns when the different branches are operating in the same AOR.  For many years the military wore BDUs with a pattern that was designed to fight a war in Europe.  When we deployed to a less green environment we were issued DCU/chocolate chips.  I can't think of a good reason for the different branches to have a completely different utility uniform.  They should all be the same with the exception of the pattern which should be dependent on the AOR.  In the AOR, everyone should be wearing the same pattern regardless of their branch of service.

As far a dress uniforms go, I just wish the USAF would move toward a more military-looking jacket.
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stillamarine
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« Reply #52 on: August 30, 2017, 10:07:46 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)

The Marines felt the need for a camouflage uniform that worked. Everyone else just wanted to be like us. If we wanted to rebrand we would have changed all our uniforms...........kinda like the Army.

More like they found themselves flush with cash and instead of doing something smart with it, they just made some contractor richer.

The Marine Corps flush with cash? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.................Oh you were serious......
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« Reply #53 on: August 30, 2017, 10:12:19 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)

The Marines felt the need for a camouflage uniform that worked. Everyone else just wanted to be like us. If we wanted to rebrand we would have changed all our uniforms...........kinda like the Army.

More like they found themselves flush with cash and instead of doing something smart with it, they just made some contractor richer.

The Marine Corps flush with cash? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.................Oh you were serious......

The whole DoD was. Which is why you have the different utilities, the silliness of velcro on the ACU, the endless stacks of stuff that is still sitting in warehouses waiting to be unpackaged....
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Strup
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stillamarine
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« Reply #54 on: August 30, 2017, 10:14:54 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)

The Marines felt the need for a camouflage uniform that worked. Everyone else just wanted to be like us. If we wanted to rebrand we would have changed all our uniforms...........kinda like the Army.

More like they found themselves flush with cash and instead of doing something smart with it, they just made some contractor richer.

The Marine Corps flush with cash? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.................Oh you were serious......

The whole DoD was. Which is why you have the different utilities, the silliness of velcro on the ACU, the endless stacks of stuff that is still sitting in warehouses waiting to be unpackaged....

So how come the other services were years behind the Marine Corps? Multiple years of being flush with cash? During the upbeat of major combat operations? Do you know what we had to do to accomplish the mission in the first couple years of OEF? I'd tell you but I'm not sure if the statute of limitations has worn off yet.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #55 on: August 30, 2017, 10:18:32 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)

The Marines felt the need for a camouflage uniform that worked. Everyone else just wanted to be like us. If we wanted to rebrand we would have changed all our uniforms...........kinda like the Army.

More like they found themselves flush with cash and instead of doing something smart with it, they just made some contractor richer.

The Marine Corps flush with cash? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.................Oh you were serious......

The whole DoD was. Which is why you have the different utilities, the silliness of velcro on the ACU, the endless stacks of stuff that is still sitting in warehouses waiting to be unpackaged....

So how come the other services were years behind the Marine Corps? Multiple years of being flush with cash? During the upbeat of major combat operations? Do you know what we had to do to accomplish the mission in the first couple years of OEF? I'd tell you but I'm not sure if the statute of limitations has worn off yet.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Budget_by_Year



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stillamarine
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« Reply #56 on: August 30, 2017, 10:22:27 AM »

Here's a radical idea, why doesn't the DoD give each armed service the same pattern of combat uniform to wear?  Then allow each branch to fold it/iron it/wear it/regulate it as they see fit.  It'd save money, time, effort, etc, but who wants that?  ::)

You mean the way it was done for decades... until about 2005?  What an amazing idea.  Never understood the need for all of this anyway -- back when it all started.
The Marines felt a burning need to rebrand themselves. :)

The Marines felt the need for a camouflage uniform that worked. Everyone else just wanted to be like us. If we wanted to rebrand we would have changed all our uniforms...........kinda like the Army.

More like they found themselves flush with cash and instead of doing something smart with it, they just made some contractor richer.

The Marine Corps flush with cash? hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.................Oh you were serious......

The whole DoD was. Which is why you have the different utilities, the silliness of velcro on the ACU, the endless stacks of stuff that is still sitting in warehouses waiting to be unpackaged....

So how come the other services were years behind the Marine Corps? Multiple years of being flush with cash? During the upbeat of major combat operations? Do you know what we had to do to accomplish the mission in the first couple years of OEF? I'd tell you but I'm not sure if the statute of limitations has worn off yet.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_budget_of_the_United_States#Budget_by_Year

Mmkay.....so reading that where does it say the Marine Corps or the DOD in general had a bunch of money just laying around to blow on uniforms? I see a big increase in 2002.........guess what, we were spending a bunch more money too.....Well the Army and AF were, we still had hand me downs.
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 354
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #57 on: August 30, 2017, 03:34:09 PM »

Quote
The only way you are differentiated is the colour of your beret.

I guess it's what you're used to.  As an army cadet in the UK, my beret was Army Air Corps blue, made by Kangool.  Regional cadet courses with other units were always very colourful with different shades and styles (for Scottish/Irish cadets) of headgear.  The first few minutes of each course were spent in headgear admiration, finding out what regiments everyone was attached to.  Stable belts too added a splash of colour to then ubiquitous DPM combat uniform.  There was no mess, no fuss, no sewing.  In my experience, it was a uniform that you could get ready quickly and move on to doing more important things, like training or prep.  The new Multi-Terrain Pattern (MTP) pattern now in use with HM Forces looks nice though. It should be in use for another twenty five years or so....

Yep....I still have my DPM jacket, which I had to buy in 1981 because the RAF was too poor to issue them generally, and that pattern was in use for at least 30 years.  It did prep and clean easily, although I was glad to see the end of the DMS ankle boots!  Always jealous of the different beret colours, though...!
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Ford73Diesel
Seasoned Member

Posts: 215

« Reply #58 on: August 30, 2017, 11:18:10 PM »

I do not see why the services have largely jettisoned the BDU (except for a handful of CG units) and gone back into their own parochialism of what camouflage is "best."

The CG transitioned from BDU and DCU to NWU Type III in late 2012. When I was in Kuwait we got a lot of jealous looks from the navy people, who were sweating profusely in their Type III's.
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CAPLTC
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Unit: MER

« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2017, 07:45:10 PM »

So how come the other services were years behind the Marine Corps? Multiple years of being flush with cash? During the upbeat of major combat operations? Do you know what we had to do to accomplish the mission in the first couple years of OEF? I'd tell you but I'm not sure if the statute of limitations has worn off yet.

I don't know that the Marines were way ahead of the power curve, per se?
MARPAT is actually CADPAT with different colors plugged-in.
Not really "great" camo.
PEO Soldier found that just plain old coyote brown or neutral grey is better than most actual camo patterns.
It's all been written on ad-nauseum.
Having to adopt Multicam/OCP is going to hurt the USMC the most. I can already hear the open weeping. Sorry guys.
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CyBorgII
Member

Posts: 54
Unit: USCG AUX

« Reply #60 on: September 07, 2017, 10:19:22 PM »

For combat/field uniforms, different services have different missions.  If we didn't, we wouldn't need ~four five different branches of the armed forces.

FTFY. ;)

Five, actually - Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard.

Add in the other two "uniformed services" - NOAA Commissioned Corps and the uniformed branch of the USPHS (who do the medical care for the Coast Guard), and you technically have seven.
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Whaddaya mean I ain't kind?  I'm just not YOUR kind!

Ex-CAP Captain, now CG Auxiliary, but still feel a great deal of affection for the many good people in CAP.
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