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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Do you have to shine boots for ABU's
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Author Topic: Do you have to shine boots for ABU's  (Read 5543 times)
jfkspotting
Member

Posts: 93
Unit: NER-NY-328

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« on: July 20, 2017, 11:05:42 PM »

Just until now, I've been under the impression that boots have to be shined for both ABU's and BDU's, since both my flight sergeant and my flight commander have enforced these regulations. I've heard from hear-say that this isn't necessary to.

*I HAVE SEARCHED AND SEARCHED USING THE SEARCH FEATURE ALREADY*
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2017, 11:22:21 PM »

Yes you have to shine them. They're the same boots you wore with the BDU's.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,060
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2017, 11:49:04 PM »

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
6.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Adam B
Recruit

Posts: 31
Unit: 28-037

« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2017, 09:41:18 AM »

I'll just add here, that if your commander issues a directive (provided that it is legal, ethical, and safe), you should probably follow it.

Saying "XoCAPDuDeXo on the internet said I don't have to," is not going to win you any points with your higher-ups.
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Adam B
kwe1009
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Posts: 739

« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2017, 10:18:21 AM »

I'll just add here, that if your commander issues a directive (provided that it is legal, ethical, and safe), you should probably follow it.

Saying "XoCAPDuDeXo on the internet said I don't have to," is not going to win you any points with your higher-ups.

That is true but in this case it would be an unlawful order since a commander can't go against regulations.

JFKSpotting, you ask a ton of questions that a quick look in a reg or an email to your chain of command could answer.  I highly encourage you to talk to your chain of command (cadet and Senior Member) to get answers to your questions if you can't find them in regulations.

[fixed quote]
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 03:01:20 PM by SarDragon » Logged
Levi Lockling
Seasoned Member

Posts: 334
Unit: AZ-085

« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2017, 11:31:52 PM »

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
6.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.
That's only in regards to the Service dress and Blues. They only need to be in good repair for ABU/BDU.
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1stLt Levi H. Lockling
SrA, USAF, 1A851J, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2017, 11:35:31 PM »

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
6.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.
That's only in regards to the Service dress and Blues. They only need to be in good repair for ABU/BDU.

And good repair means black and shiny.
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Levi Lockling
Seasoned Member

Posts: 334
Unit: AZ-085

« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2017, 01:02:56 AM »

Quote from: CAPM 39-1
6.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.
That's only in regards to the Service dress and Blues. They only need to be in good repair for ABU/BDU.

And good repair means black and shiny.
I think you dropped this: "/s"

But seriously. If the gods that be wanted the same level of shine, or any level of shine on ABU/BDU combat boots as they do with Service Dress combat boots, then they would have worded it very similarly  to the chapter quoted above.
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1stLt Levi H. Lockling
SrA, USAF, 1A851J, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,060
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2017, 03:28:38 AM »

They don't need to be spit shined. I spend ten minutes once a month to keep my 25+ yo boots in acceptable condition. Brush off the dirt, slap on a coat of polish, brush, buff, and good until next time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,060
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2017, 03:36:19 AM »

Oh, and they get a dye job once a year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 223

« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2017, 06:38:14 AM »

What about black boots that aren't meant to be shined?

I've got my eye on a couple (one Danner and one Lowa) that are non-polishable. If I have to wear boots that look stupid with ABUs, I might as well get the low-maintenance aspect of sage boots.
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DocJekyll
Member

Posts: 96

« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2017, 04:02:23 PM »

Emphasis mine -

Quote
CAPR 39-1
6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for “jungle boot” style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot.

ABU Wear Memorandum updated effective 24 October 2016:
"Footwear. Black combat boots."

So, let's add some definitions:
Patent leather - is a type of coated leather that has a very glossy, shiny finish.
High Gloss - A surface shininess or luster. 2. A kind of paint that dries to a shiny finish.
and lastly...
"May" - v. a choice to act or not, or a promise of a possibility, as distinguished from "shall," which makes it imperative.

So, you MAY have shiny boots, but it's not necessarily a requirement. {edit: the sentence could also be interpreted to say that you MAY choose option one OR option 2, either high gloss OR patent finish} That being said, shoe polish does many good things for boots and I highly recommend polishing them. I don't shine mine to bounce lasers off them and hit the moon. I simply shine enough to protect. If you want to go full black mirrors, so be it.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2017, 09:00:13 PM »

What about black boots that aren't meant to be shined?

I've got my eye on a couple (one Danner and one Lowa) that are non-polishable. If I have to wear boots that look stupid with ABUs, I might as well get the low-maintenance aspect of sage boots.


Well the Updated ABU Authorization Letter just says "Black Combat Boots". Which is exactly what is authorized in the current 39-1 for BDU's.
So if you can legally wear them with BDU's then they're good for wear in ABU's too.
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Adam B
Recruit

Posts: 31
Unit: 28-037

« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2017, 09:24:21 AM »

I'll just add here, that if your commander issues a directive (provided that it is legal, ethical, and safe), you should probably follow it.

Saying "XoCAPDuDeXo on the internet said I don't have to," is not going to win you any points with your higher-ups.

That is true but in this case it would be an unlawful order since a commander can't go against regulations.

Wait, what?
How would shining you boots violate regulations?

The "Wear Instructions" state:
 "Footwear. Black combat boot"

That's all.
Polishing your boots is basic maintenance. It keeps the leather serviceable, and aids in keeping water out.
It's certainly doesn't violate the stringent and detailed regulatory requirements of being both "black" and a "combat boot".

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Adam B
Eclipse
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Posts: 27,994

« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2017, 10:09:03 AM »

If they are shine-able, shine them, if they are tactical mat finish, keep them clean.

I use regular polish for 5-10 minutes for the shiney jump boots once a year, Windex on the Corfams,
and Dr. Bailey's on the tac boots.  If I've spent more then a couple hours total in 18 years making boots look
nice I would be surprised. If you're using a lighter, alcohol, side dressing, or any of the other cadet time wasters
you need to find a better way to burn your day, like checking the height of the grass hourly.

I get the social / team building aspect of the nightly boot epoxy, so whatever, but beyond that, it's not necessary.

Sage is never going to happen.

Next old problem solved via search, Google, or asking your CC first.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 10:13:22 AM by Eclipse » Logged

"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse
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« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2017, 10:15:28 AM »

And FWIW, I have seen someone put what was essentially a mirror shine on tac boots.

It was impressive on a number of levels, not all of them positive.
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,664
Unit: of issue

« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2017, 02:04:03 PM »

Sage is never going to happen.

Care for a little side bet on that?
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
DocJekyll
Member

Posts: 96

« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2017, 07:11:03 PM »

Sage is never going to happen.

Care for a little side bet on that?

Oh man... I wanna take that bet.... but I also want sage boots, mainly so I can eliminate a pair of boots from what I have to maintain....

Also, just picked up these, so... lets not do it too soon.
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jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,006

« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2017, 10:54:01 AM »

Sage is never going to happen.

Care for a little side bet on that?

From what I understand, it was just asked for and denied, so sure.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Eclipse
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Posts: 27,994

« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2017, 11:06:23 AM »

Related - I have some very new cadet parents who finally got over to
a local retailer to buy ABUs.

The retailer told them "the sage boots look better, buy those..."

Thankfully they called me before buying them. 

I don't expect some random military surplus guy to know 39-1,
but he >did< know these were for a uniform and you don't buy uniform
parts based on "these look better".
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Do you have to shine boots for ABU's
 


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