New Senior Member cargo pant question

Started by BoxGranch, June 09, 2017, 03:49:33 PM

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Fubar

Quote from: chuckmilam on June 12, 2017, 05:03:47 PMSo, which shade of the pants shown above is "medium gray?"

I'm reading between the lines here a bit, but you appear to be requesting a specification where CAP intentionally didn't create one. All of the gentlemen pictured are wearing pants that fall into the vague description of "medium grey" as designed.

I know this rubs the OCD/strict military folks the wrong way, but it's working as intended.

waukwiz

Quote from: Luis R. Ramos on June 12, 2017, 04:53:34 PM
Quote

Blousing a polo into your boots would look awfully strange, don't you think?


So if I get my Polo uniform, I will blouse pants it into the boots.

;)

Reposted in an expanded way for the benefit of the gentlemen who cannot read between lines...

>:D
Hey, in a world where the polo uniform is ES gear and we blouse our cargo pants, can't be sure of anything someone says [emoji48]
Cadet Cullen Mayes
Waukesha Composite Squadron
"Ok, how about instead of doing that, let's not do that. Ok?"
GTM1 • MO • MRO • MSA • ♦UDF

Майор Хаткевич

No one in this thread has advocating blousing cargo pants.

Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on June 09, 2017, 08:37:29 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 09, 2017, 06:48:56 PM
Never blouse those again.

Ever.


They are meant to be bloused. Thus they will be bloused.

They will also be dorkier than dorky.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

Майор Хаткевич


Mitchell 1969

Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on June 13, 2017, 02:24:49 PM
Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on June 13, 2017, 05:57:33 AM
Quote from: Майор Хаткевич on June 09, 2017, 08:37:29 PM
Quote from: Eclipse on June 09, 2017, 06:48:56 PM
Never blouse those again.

Ever.


They are meant to be bloused. Thus they will be bloused.

They will also be dorkier than dorky.


YMMV I suppose.

Have it your way. It won't be dorkier than dorky.

But everybody will still be laughing about it.
_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

Майор Хаткевич


chuckmilam

Quote from: Fubar on June 12, 2017, 11:11:28 PM
I know this rubs the OCD/strict military folks the wrong way, but it's working as intended.
I see your point, but if I may raise another:  This ambiguity leads to conflict when certain folks go out of their way to ensure their interpretation of "medium gray" is the right one. 

My suggestion: if "medium gray" is intended to be a range of shades [of gray  ;) ], then specify it as such--and publish reasonable examples of acceptable shades in the next version of the regulation. 

Eclipse

Define "reasonable"...

You can't use subjective terms to try and objectively define something - that's the problem.

It's pretty much the same issue with all the corporate combinations, between lack of a standard,
lack of a standard supplier, not to mention improper care, most mission bases and activities are
a rainbow of "blue".  Heck, I've seen brand-new CFUs that look purple until they have been washed ten times,
which in CAP use could be a year or two.

The USAF combos aren't much better - with no standardization of garment life, nor supplier, CAP has thrice-issued
ABUs that are basically just a faded blend of something called "colors", many times mis-matched between
top and bottom, some that come out of the factory more pink then green, and the ones VG sells look like
they are done on an inkjet in someone's basement. Zero uniformity.  (same issue with BDUs).

There's a reason the military and government agencies publish standards and select certain suppliers, and
those reasons aren't on NHQ's list, for some legitimate reasons and some less so.

"That Others May Zoom"

chuckmilam

Quote from: Eclipse on June 14, 2017, 01:10:50 PM
You can't use subjective terms to try and objectively define something - that's the problem.
Fair enough.  How about codifying that "medium gray" is in fact a range of shades, rather than a specific color?

etodd

Quote from: chuckmilam on June 14, 2017, 12:49:52 PM

This ambiguity leads to conflict when certain folks go out of their way to ensure their interpretation of "medium gray" is the right one. 


Can we somehow uninvite those picky folks to SAREXs and actual Missions? That can be a big downer when folks are trying to get real work done, and someone is fussing about the color of their pants.
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

chuckmilam

Quote from: etodd on June 14, 2017, 02:32:02 PM
Can we somehow uninvite those picky folks to SAREXs and actual Missions? That can be a big downer when folks are trying to get real work done, and someone is fussing about the color of their pants.
Welcome to CAP, you must be new here.  /s  ;)

SarDragon

Here's what the Knowledge Base has to say about it. Good luck.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

etodd

Quote from: SarDragon on June 14, 2017, 09:14:56 PM
Here's what the Knowledge Base has to say about it. Good luck.

If you want to go to the paint store and get PMS "Cool Gray 9 C", that seems to be the closest match. Spray paint your pants.

Its also Hex code #7f7f7f, for anyone wanting to PhotoShop their online photos to get the correct medium gray.   >:D
"Don't try to explain it, just bow your head
Breathe in, breathe out, move on ..."

Adam B

If you read the publication from beginning to end, it actually becomes easier to understand.
To explain, lets look at other uniforms which may or must have bloused pants (all emphasis mine):

USAF-style BDU's (Blousing required)
Quote5.1.1.5.  Trousers.  Cotton and nylon twill or rip stop cotton camouflage pattern (woodland green) with button front closure, strap ankle adjustment, and six pockets. Material of shirt and trousers must match. Blouse trousers over combat boots. Tucking the BDU trousers into the boot is optional. Whether tucked in or bloused, the trouser must be evenly bloused (gathered in and draped loosely) over the top of the combat boot and must present a bloused appearance.  Material of shirt and trousers must match.

Blue BDU (Blousing optional)
Quote5.2.1.5.  Trousers.  Cotton and nylon twill or rip stop cotton blue with button front closure, strap ankle adjustment, and six pockets. Trousers may be bloused over boots. If not bloused, drawstring in the hem should be removed.  Material of shirt and trousers must match.

CWU (Blousing not allowed, no mention of being authorized)
Quote5.2.2.4.  Trousers/Slacks.  Medium Gray (solid color). Wool, polyester/wool blend, polyester/cotton or cotton trousers. Either slim, straight leg or loose fit, with or without pleat or cuffs is allowed. Commercially available "tactical" slacks and "chinos" medium gray slacks with or without cuffs are approved for optional wear.  Shorts are not authorized.

You can actually draw a few other conclusions by reading the document in its entirety. The term "slacks" is ONLY used to refer a dress style pant; BDU-style pants are never referred to a slacks.
Also, at no point in CAPM 39-1 are "slacks" of any sort ever allowed to bloused. 

Is that as black and white as saying "Do not blouse slacks?" No, but it also never says "Do not draw sharpie hearts on your blouse."
Generally, manuals and regulations follow the principle that if it says you can, you can. Otherwise you can't.
And as senior members, we all agree in our membership oath to follow all regulations, even if they may not be as tacticool as we'd like.

PS. Nice CAR technique with the cell phone.




I'll throw my two cents in on the Medium Grey debate, too, just for the heck of it.
I think it's vague for a reason, namely, ease of compliance. As other's have said, it's to allow someone to easily acquire the needed items locally. 
I was personally able to put together the whole CSU (sans accouterments) entirely from items I already owned.

Along with the ease and low expense of acquisition comes a third advantage: fit.  By allowing a variety of commercially available pants, I believe people are more likely to find a set that fits them properly. How many of us have seen a member squeezed into a Blues uniform that was only a close-enough fit? Contrast that to members wearing well-fitted CWU, and who looks more professional?

There was a picture posted of several SMs, all wearing obviously different colored pants. While their outfits are not perfectly alike, do they accomplish the mission of a uniform?
Is it visually symbolic of their shared membership in our organisation? Does it inspire comradery among our fellow members? Does it visually demonstrate their individual commitment to our organisation by following our rules and regulations?

I say yes.

/2cents
Adam

Mustang

I've tried both shades of gray offered by Propper and both miss the mark. Their charcoal gray is too dark and their light gray is too light. 5.11's storm gray nailed it but they don't offer fat kid sizes.
"Amateurs train until they get it right; Professionals train until they cannot get it wrong. "


chuckmilam

Quote from: Mustang on June 20, 2017, 11:12:59 AM
5.11's storm gray nailed it but they don't offer fat kid sizes.
5.11 Stryke in Storm Gray is my current favorite for this combo, and they go up to a 54" waist.  (Hoping I didn't just make this awkward.)  :-\

vorteks

Quote from: chuckmilam on June 20, 2017, 02:57:08 PM
Quote from: Mustang on June 20, 2017, 11:12:59 AM
5.11's storm gray nailed it but they don't offer fat kid sizes.
5.11 Stryke in Storm Gray is my current favorite for this combo, and they go up to a 54" waist.  (Hoping I didn't just make this awkward.)  :-\

Those look nice but they are stupidly expensive

chuckmilam

Watch for the sales.  15-25% off happens usually once or twice a year, and every so often (maybe every 2-3 years) you'll see a "buy 2, get one free" deal. 

Mustang

Quote from: Mustang on June 20, 2017, 11:12:59 AM
I've tried both shades of gray offered by Propper and both miss the mark. Their charcoal gray is too dark and their light gray is too light. 5.11's storm gray nailed it but they don't offer fat kid sizes.
I have to eat my words here, looks like 5.11 has expanded their available sizes on a number of their pant styles.
"Amateurs train until they get it right; Professionals train until they cannot get it wrong. "