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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: New Senior Member cargo pant question
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Author Topic: New Senior Member cargo pant question  (Read 6959 times)
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 619

« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2017, 04:24:55 PM »

BoxGranch,

Imagine there was a law in our country where every citizen over the age of 21 had to own a Hawaiian shirt, but the law also stated nobody was allowed to check in your closet to see if you actually had one. That's kind of where we're at with our regulation that requires all members to own at least the minimum basic uniform (either the USAF-style blues or the aviator shirt uniform). Yes, by regulation, you are required to have an aviator shirt hanging in your closet. Yet there is no mechanism to determine if you are in compliance and really no consequences if you are not in compliance. The only thing I can think of if is some misguided activity director disallows the polo shirt uniform from an activity or training, you won't be able to attend unless you have the required uniform (that has never happened to me, but it certainly could).

It's an ethical question for you alone to answer. Everyone seems to have the rules they're willing bend or break, speeding on the highway, showing up for work a few minutes late and not telling your boss, or exaggerating on a resume. This is a rule that is widely broken in CAP, it's up to you to decide if you want to be one of them.

My recommendation, purchase regular grey pants (not tactical pants) and the polo shirt. Down the road when you can afford it, pick up the white aviator shirt (or even better, ask around your squadron/group/wing and see if someone has one you can have). Your pants can be worn with both shirts, saving you at least one purchase.
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Майор Хаткевич
200,000th Post Author
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,075
Unit: GLR-IL-049

« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2017, 04:37:29 PM »

Never blouse those again.

Ever.


They are meant to be bloused. Thus they will be bloused.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,981

« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2017, 04:56:50 PM »

Never blouse those again.

Ever.


They are meant to be bloused. Thus they will be bloused.

No they aren't, and boots aren't required, so where would an idea like that come from?
Did you buy BDU pants with ties on the bottom?

Looks ridiculous.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2017, 05:02:27 PM »

Never blouse those again.

Ever.


They are meant to be bloused. Thus they will be bloused.

No they aren't, and boots aren't required, so where would an idea like that come from?
Did you buy BDU pants with ties on the bottom?

Looks ridiculous.

Like you're a fashion expert or something? >:D
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vorteks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 225

« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2017, 05:15:58 PM »

Looks ridiculous.

Agree. It's downright mockworthy.
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BoxGranch
Recruit

Posts: 15
Unit: SER-FL-466

« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2017, 05:20:14 PM »

Thanks all, didn't mean to start a dispute over anything.

The idea of the grey slacks being usable with both shirts is a good one, particularly with using Land's End or the like which can be had for less than the Vanguard one. I normally wear Tru-Spec cargo pants, so the thought of adding another color was what jumped out of me. I usually wear OD for Scouting and I was sure my wife might like an alternative color in my usual dress code (JOKE, I think she has finally given up on my dress).

I understood the eventual need to have the other uniforms, I was simply hoping to be able to postpone spending the money. This is just a bad moment with a lot of other stuff piling on. That is not meant to be a whine, simply a reality. Braces for my son, a bunch of Scouing and now CAP stuff for my son, car repairs, the A/C died in the house, bla, bla, bla etc.

Thanks again!



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Eclipse
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2017, 05:33:44 PM »

Thanks all, didn't mean to start a dispute over anything.

Nah, just Friday on CT, also I know Майор Хаткевич personally and hazing is not secured.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 944
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2017, 06:42:27 PM »

Thanks all, didn't mean to start a dispute over anything.

The idea of the grey slacks being usable with both shirts is a good one, particularly with using Land's End or the like which can be had for less than the Vanguard one. I normally wear Tru-Spec cargo pants, so the thought of adding another color was what jumped out of me. I usually wear OD for Scouting and I was sure my wife might like an alternative color in my usual dress code (JOKE, I think she has finally given up on my dress).

I understood the eventual need to have the other uniforms, I was simply hoping to be able to postpone spending the money. This is just a bad moment with a lot of other stuff piling on. That is not meant to be a whine, simply a reality. Braces for my son, a bunch of Scouing and now CAP stuff for my son, car repairs, the A/C died in the house, bla, bla, bla etc.

Thanks again!

Hi, BoxGranch:

One more quote from 39-1:
"1.2.4. When to Wear a CAP Uniform.
1.2.4.2. Members are normally required [emphasis added] to wear a CAP uniform (either USAF- or
Corporate-style) when working with cadets, when flying in a CAP aircraft (Corporate or member owned
aircraft used in a CAP flight activity), or when conducting business under a CAP mission number (A, B,
or C). Region commanders, wing commanders, and activity directors may stipulate appropriate civilian
clothes while traveling to and from events by ground, or during events not involving flight where it is
appropriate to wear civilian clothes".

My observation on that:
Many CAP members participate without wearing a uniform outside the above stated requirement. You don't have to wear ANY uniform unless working with cadets, flying, or working on a mission/activity with a specified uniform. So, that leaves many areas of CAP where we'd benefit from your available time and talent without taking much of your treasure. What could you do? Well, think of local level support not directly working with cadets: IT, Admin, and Logistics support, for a start. As you gain breathing room, add inexpensive gray dress trousers first, then the shirts, then grow into working with cadets/training at missions/etc.

You're not the only one on a budget; with three cadets - braces, college... LIFE - I'm in the same boat with watching the expenses. Don't let the uniform issue be the thing that keeps you from joining.

On the grays:
I wear exactly the same config as Major Hatkevitch in his pic (bloused, too, as my Propper grays are designed for it) when I'm working ES. When I'm at a normal meeting, I wear the same polo with inexpensive gray dress trousers and black loafers. When I have something to do that I should dress a bit for, I wear the white aviator shirt, which I just finally added after all these years.

I hope you'll join us.

V/r
Spam

PS, take the fake uniform fundamentalist crap with a grain of salt. The irony of Eclipse harassing someone for blousing gray trousers isn't lost on me - this, from Eclipse, the guy who here on CT openly advocates letting people wear civilian sports outerwear with USAF style uniforms. Ah, hypocrisy, thy name is... Eclipse.


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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2017, 07:12:08 PM »

Thanks all, didn't mean to start a dispute over anything.

Nah, just Friday on CT, also I know Майор Хаткевич personally and hazing is not secured.


Indeed. And yes, grey bdu pants. Bloused.  >:D
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Eclipse
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2017, 08:03:05 PM »

PS, take the fake uniform fundamentalist crap with a grain of salt. The irony of Eclipse harassing someone for blousing gray trousers isn't lost on me - this, from Eclipse, the guy who here on CT openly advocates letting people wear civilian sports outerwear with USAF style uniforms. Ah, hypocrisy, thy name is... Eclipse.

Yeah, OK, save it for your PTA meetings when someone brings creamer you don't like.

Show me any reference anywhere in a CAP publication that this practice is authorized, encouraged, or even suggested.
That is a grade-A, "wannabe asking for a wedgie" appearance.

For the most part, the golf shirt combo is an office / ICP uniform. If you need bloused pants, you should be in
a FIELD uniform.

Also, quite literally the entirety of CAP, including national headquarters disagrees with your ridiculous stance that cadets
should be barred from participation for not having regulation outerwear, not to mention the self-conflicting REGULATIONS that bar the
requirement of wearing anything but that which is issued.
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Mitchell 1969
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Posts: 689
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2017, 08:44:13 PM »

What's the difference between "cargo pants" and "tactical pants"?  If it's got gray side pocket and
looks reasonable, no one will car.

There actually is a difference, but it's mostly in the eyes of the manufacturers. The side pockets on cargo pants are usually "billowed," to allow for greater capacity. Whereas, tactical pants usually have the external pockets more flush to the leg, or even inside the trouser leg.  A bit less capacity but looks nicer. And, as stated, noddy cares (except purchasing agents looking to buy "something less military").
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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #31 on: June 09, 2017, 08:55:10 PM »

What's the difference between "cargo pants" and "tactical pants"?  If it's got gray side pocket and
looks reasonable, no one will car.

There actually is a difference, but it's mostly in the eyes of the manufacturers. The side pockets on cargo pants are usually "billowed," to allow for greater capacity. Whereas, tactical pants usually have the external pockets more flush to the leg, or even inside the trouser leg.  A bit less capacity but looks nicer. And, as stated, noddy cares (except purchasing agents looking to buy "something less military").

Tactical Pants cost more because they're cool.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #32 on: June 09, 2017, 09:16:43 PM »

Tactical Pants cost more because they're cool.

They are Tactikewl.
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 944
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #33 on: June 09, 2017, 10:10:38 PM »

PS, take the fake uniform fundamentalist crap with a grain of salt. The irony of Eclipse harassing someone for blousing gray trousers isn't lost on me - this, from Eclipse, the guy who here on CT openly advocates letting people wear civilian sports outerwear with USAF style uniforms. Ah, hypocrisy, thy name is... Eclipse.

Yeah, OK, save it for your PTA meetings when someone brings creamer you don't like.

Show me any reference anywhere in a CAP publication that this practice is authorized, encouraged, or even suggested.
That is a grade-A, "wannabe asking for a wedgie" appearance.

For the most part, the golf shirt combo is an office / ICP uniform. If you need bloused pants, you should be in
a FIELD uniform.

Also, quite literally the entirety of CAP, including national headquarters disagrees with your ridiculous stance that cadets
should be barred from participation for not having regulation outerwear, not to mention the self-conflicting REGULATIONS that bar the
requirement of wearing anything but that which is issued.


Yeah, typical. Cite regs when you want, push logical fallacies without citations when you want... resort to ridicule at any time. Weak ego again, sir.

Standing in a CP area with mud up to my ankles as I'm performing GBD tasks - I'm wearing boots, and I'm blousing to keep the cuffs out of the mud, and its within regs. You can stuff your bull crap opinions, your fallacious arguments, and your selective choosing of when you pull your righteous expert card and give other people crap, and when you then choose to selectively ignore the uniform regs. Repeating: hypocrite.

I think the OP's question has been answered. Done here.

Out.

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Eclipse
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« Reply #34 on: June 09, 2017, 10:20:22 PM »

Always nice to see you making an argument personal when your idea(s) fails on merit or fact.
Pretending reality doesn't apply or exist is a nice touch as well.

Your consistency in that is always appreciated.
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etodd
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Posts: 849

« Reply #35 on: June 09, 2017, 10:23:34 PM »

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Luis R. Ramos
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Posts: 2,522

« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2017, 02:54:58 PM »

Photo does not count.

Not one there is wearing cargo or tactical pants. Four out of five are aircrew. They do not walk the Earth, like us groundpounders.

Quote
From CAPM 39-1:

5.2.2.4.  Trousers/Slacks. Medium Gray (solid color).... Commercially available “tactical” slacks and “chinos” medium gray slacks with or without cuffs are approved for optional wear...


CAPM 39-1 allows us to use tactical pants with the blue Polo. Tactical pants are not authorized with the white Aviator shirt. All the gray tactical that I have bought do have tie tabs at the bottom. So if I get my Polo, I will blouse it into the boots. If only because there is nothing more horrible than having the tie tabs at the slack bottom slapping around. And to prevent any tick from getting inside my leg.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,864

« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2017, 03:47:43 PM »

Photo does not count.

Not one there is wearing cargo or tactical pants. Four out of five are aircrew. They do not walk the Earth, like us groundpounders.

Quote
From CAPM 39-1:

5.2.2.4.  Trousers/Slacks. Medium Gray (solid color).... Commercially available “tactical” slacks and “chinos” medium gray slacks with or without cuffs are approved for optional wear...


CAPM 39-1 allows us to use tactical pants with the blue Polo. Tactical pants are not authorized with the white Aviator shirt. All the gray tactical that I have bought do have tie tabs at the bottom. So if I get my Polo, I will blouse it into the boots. If only because there is nothing more horrible than having the tie tabs at the slack bottom slapping around. And to prevent any tick from getting inside my leg.

How do you know the sixth person isn't aircrew?
The version of the golf shirt that he is wearing (Silk Screened) had no provision for embroidered names and wings.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2017, 04:52:59 PM »

All the gray tactical that I have bought do have tie tabs at the bottom.

Please provide a link or source for review.

Tactical pants do not have blousing tabs, they are intended to be hemmed and worn outside boots or with normal shoes.

BDU pants do.

The gent on the right is clearly wearing tac pants, as evidence by the hook on the right-hand side, and the flat pockets.

(The gent in the middle is wearing improper footwear).
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stillamarine
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Posts: 803
Unit: SER-AL-134

« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2017, 05:10:05 PM »

All the gray tactical that I have bought do have tie tabs at the bottom.

Please provide a link or source for review.

Tactical pants do not have blousing tabs, they are intended to be hemmed and worn outside boots or with normal shoes.

BDU pants do.

The gent on the right is clearly wearing tac pants, as evidence by the hook on the right-hand side, and the flat pockets.

(The gent in the middle is wearing improper footwear).

^^^^^this. I probably own 15 or so "tacticool" pants for work and not a single pair came with blousing tabs
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Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

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