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lordmonar
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« on: June 27, 2015, 09:31:03 PM »

Just got an E-mail warning that a new ICL is immanent.   It removes all references to safety currency and removes the bar from participation if you have not had safety education in the last 30 days.

We still have to do safety education every month....which is a good thing.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
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« Reply #1 on: June 27, 2015, 09:58:40 PM »

Just got an E-mail warning that a new ICL is immanent.   It removes all references to safety currency and removes the bar from participation if you have not had safety education in the last 30 days.

We still have to do safety education every month....which is a good thing.

You see to be a little heart broken by that :)
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lordmonar
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« Reply #2 on: June 27, 2015, 10:00:46 PM »

I don't know where you could have gotten that idea?   :)
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
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« Reply #3 on: June 28, 2015, 12:10:04 AM »

I'll believe it when I see it... :o
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lordmonar
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« Reply #4 on: June 28, 2015, 12:22:04 AM »

Here it is.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #5 on: June 28, 2015, 02:08:43 AM »

Wow, this is definitely surprising.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #6 on: June 28, 2015, 09:10:20 AM »

Mixed feelings.  On the one hand, they just got rid of the only real tool they had to make sure that everyone does participate in the program, but on the other hand I'm not sure that the monthly safety briefing concept has any proven benefit in the first place. 
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Eaker Guy
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« Reply #7 on: June 28, 2015, 09:32:33 AM »

Mixed feelings.  On the one hand, they just got rid of the only real tool they had to make sure that everyone does participate in the program, but on the other hand I'm not sure that the monthly safety briefing concept has any proven benefit in the first place.

+1
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PHall
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« Reply #8 on: June 28, 2015, 09:35:22 AM »

Mixed feelings.  On the one hand, they just got rid of the only real tool they had to make sure that everyone does participate in the program, but on the other hand I'm not sure that the monthly safety briefing concept has any proven benefit in the first place.

Well, you could just compare the accident rate now with the rate we had before we had the mandatory monthly safety briefings.
From the data I've seen, there isn't much of a difference.  YMMV.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #9 on: June 28, 2015, 03:08:45 PM »

Well, that possibly could work, but the thing is that change may not be easily detectable since most active CAP members were probably participating in monthly briefings before it became a dealbreaker to other activities, so the group whose behavior was really changed was the low-participation member (sort of like me at the moment) who was really forced to take briefings they otherwise wouldn't have taken.  And the question would be how often those folks were doing CAP stuff so as to potentially be involved with an accident anyway. 

And quite frankly, it was easily possible to stay safety current by only doing the online briefings that only had a marginal relationship to CAP activities (and therefore accident rates). 

I sort of doubt the older safety data is all that good anyway.  I think we probably have improved the safety reporting system in recent years.  What could be done in a few years is to see whether those that have maintained monthly safety currency have lower accident rates than those who haven't done it every month.  If there is no difference then that would strike a blow against the monthly briefings (or justify them).
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2015, 12:10:57 AM »

I have mixed feelings about the change. On the one hand, I think it's good that members are not being prevented from participating in a meeting, activity or mission because they just when non-current. On the other hand, how do you make participation in a program mandatory without making any provisions for those not complying with the program? This change may be a step in the right direction, but the implementation still needs some work. I guess we'll have to see how it develops moving forward.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2015, 12:25:17 AM »

I have mixed feelings about the change. On the one hand, I think it's good that members are not being prevented from participating in a meeting, activity or mission because they just when non-current. On the other hand, how do you make participation in a program mandatory without making any provisions for those not complying with the program? This change may be a step in the right direction, but the implementation still needs some work. I guess we'll have to see how it develops moving forward.
The point is.....do the monthly training at the squadron.   Then do the safety brief at the start of every activity.   Press on.
If Member X always seems to miss the safety briefing.....or is a little late...hand him the print outs of the safety brief, have him sign at the bottom and them get on with the mission.

The whole problem with "safety currency" as implemented is that it is too hard to move on and get the mission done.

Sending someone home because he missed the safety briefing last month and did not do one of the online briefings says that "safety bureaucracy" is more important than the mission or the people showing up to do the mission.

Add to that the way CAP implemented it...i.e. per-mission/activity briefs don't count, but taking hurricane safety while operating in Nevada does...illustrates the point that bureaucracy was more important then getting real, actionable, relevant safety education.

This is a step in the right direction.

Do your monthly safety education, do your safety briefings, do your mission.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2015, 07:44:38 PM »

Is the safety training still on line?  I am not near my home unit and had been doing the training on line, can't find it now.  Any help?


JCW
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lordmonar
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« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2015, 07:59:39 PM »

Is the safety training still on line?  I am not near my home unit and had been doing the training on line, can't find it now.  Any help?


JCW
It is not required anymore.

The unit is still required to do monthly safety education....but there is no longer a need for you to have attended it to be able to participate in CAP activities.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2015, 03:43:51 PM »


Is the safety training still on line?  I am not near my home unit and had been doing the training on line, can't find it now.  Any help?


JCW
It is not required anymore.

The unit is still required to do monthly safety education....but there is no longer a need for you to have attended it to be able to participate in CAP activities.

That's not entirely correct. The way the ICL is worded, members are still required to complete monthly safety education, but are not prevented from participating in CAP activities if they didn't do it.
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2015, 03:44:22 PM »


Is the safety training still on line?  I am not near my home unit and had been doing the training on line, can't find it now.  Any help?


JCW

It's still there.
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Ohioguard
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« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2015, 08:16:14 PM »

Where, I can't find it.


JCW
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SarDragon
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« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2015, 10:57:05 PM »

Where, I can't find it.


JCW

Log in to eServices.

Click Safety.

Click Safety Management System (SMS)

Click Online Safety Education (second row, left button)

Select your course.

Edited to add missing step.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2015, 01:32:53 AM by SarDragon » Logged
Dave Bowles
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« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2015, 07:07:31 AM »

Thank you.
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rsuncloud
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« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2015, 08:48:54 AM »

Your squadron commanders are still tasked with knowing if you are Safety Current.  The real benefit as I see it is;
During an Emergency we (CAP) need responders and the fact that someone forgot to enter your CAP ID into the computer base should not bar you from participating.

On the other hand.... Listening to Grand Pa drone on and on about how tough his life was or having an LtC read an article might not be the most effective presentation if your Safety Officer's goal is to engage his/her audience
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ALORD
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« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2016, 12:52:31 PM »

Okay, Help me out. My SQ commander was told to transfer any member who had not attended meetings and was not "Safety Current"  into "patron Status by the (wing?) I.G. My SQ has a bunch of old guys who have been spindled folded and mutilated ( like me) but since they have not attended SQ safety meetings, they were involuntarily demoted to Patron members to clean up the Inspection report. Is this Kosher? Did the I.G lead my SQ commander down the primrose path?
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2016, 12:59:26 PM »

Okay, Help me out. My SQ commander was told to transfer any member who had not attended meetings and was not "Safety Current"  into "patron Status by the (wing?) I.G. My SQ has a bunch of old guys who have been spindled folded and mutilated ( like me) but since they have not attended SQ safety meetings, they were involuntarily demoted to Patron members to clean up the Inspection report. Is this Kosher? Did the I.G lead my SQ commander down the primrose path?

It is kosher, and a good practice. Our wing recently went through a purge, moving those who don't attend meetings, are not safety current and/or not have taken the new CPPT program into patron status. Some hollered foul, but complied and became active. Others it didn't affect, they just are spending their money on CAP for whatever reason, and we never hear from them. Having a bunch of non-compliant members looks bad on an inspection. Makes people thing the CC isn't doing his job.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2016, 01:01:25 PM »

Okay, Help me out. My SQ commander was told to transfer any member who had not attended meetings and was not "Safety Current"  into "patron Status by the (wing?) I.G. My SQ has a bunch of old guys who have been spindled folded and mutilated ( like me) but since they have not attended SQ safety meetings, they were involuntarily demoted to Patron members to clean up the Inspection report. Is this Kosher? Did the I.G lead my SQ commander down the primrose path?

It is kosher, and a good practice. Our wing recently went through a purge, moving those who don't attend meetings, are not safety current and/or not have taken the new CPPT program into patron status. Some hollered foul, but complied and became active. Others it didn't affect, they just are spending their money on CAP for whatever reason, and we never hear from them. Having a bunch of non-compliant members looks bad on an inspection. Makes people thing the CC isn't doing his job.


That's just coolaid.


Moving people to Patron because of safety currency is the easy way out, not a good thing.


If you're not safety current...you can't play. If you're not safety current, chances are you're not currently showing up...so mission accomplished.


I don't believe the intent was ever to make safety and patron status linked. Besides...we don't have a patron status for cadets.
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ALORD
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« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2016, 01:16:59 PM »

Hmmmm, I would call that one vote "for" and one "against"...My understanding from the ICL is that Safety Currency is ( as in the title of this thread,) "Dead" Is it only "Mostly dead? Should we go through its pockets and look for spare change? :)
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FW
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« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2016, 01:30:25 PM »

Sq/CC must do what he is ordered to do, however there is no requirement to do so nationwide.  Most non compliant members aren't active in ES, so that isn't a problem.  As I understand things, Non compliant members can still do AE or CP.  They can go to meetings and conferences.  They can even participate on missions, however before they begin the event, it's good practice to get them compliant...
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NIN
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« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2016, 01:41:04 PM »

Okay, Help me out. My SQ commander was told to transfer any member who had not attended meetings and was not "Safety Current"  into "patron Status by the (wing?) I.G. My SQ has a bunch of old guys who have been spindled folded and mutilated ( like me) but since they have not attended SQ safety meetings, they were involuntarily demoted to Patron members to clean up the Inspection report. Is this Kosher? Did the I.G lead my SQ commander down the primrose path?

It is kosher, and a good practice. Our wing recently went through a purge, moving those who don't attend meetings, are not safety current and/or not have taken the new CPPT program into patron status. Some hollered foul, but complied and became active. Others it didn't affect, they just are spending their money on CAP for whatever reason, and we never hear from them. Having a bunch of non-compliant members looks bad on an inspection. Makes people thing the CC isn't doing his job.

No.

Since April/May-ish, the word has been "Don't do that."  (Note: I haven't really seen that "officially" in writing, but I have seen the email from the region commander that said "Stop doing that.")

I get "not looking bad on an inspection."

But now, you don't get dinged for "100 members, only 72 of whom have had a safety briefing."

No, its "Having an activity? Conduct a brief for the attendees."

This is part of the retention problem we've been experiencing.  Treating members like little chits or numbers, not real people with real situations.

"Yeah, real sorry you're not active, Timmy, but our safety compliance numbers are at risk, so we're gonna make you a patron member."

"Patron?  Pffft, screw that, I'm not even going to bother renewing this next time.  Guess you guys don't really give a crap about me.."

« Last Edit: January 11, 2016, 02:22:05 PM by NIN » Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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ALORD
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« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2016, 01:42:17 PM »

Roger that. Here is my particular situation: I have a terminal disease, acquired in the course and scope of my employment as a Paramilitary Contractor, working for our Uncle Sam during Hurricane Katrina.  Going to meetings could be occasionally possible, but the idea that I would ever be active in my former CAP job as a GTL, or in any job that might have issues with my occasionally vomiting blood, is somewhat laughable. I notified my SQ commander via E-Mail when it became obvious that I would probably not be terribly active, but would continue to pay dues, support CAP, and handle whatever duties I could should I recover or go into remission. This morning I was advised that our Deputy Commander for Seniors had downgraded my membership status to Patron, which I find somewhat insulting, but if kicking all the disabled people off the SQ roster to gundeck the reports is the standard policy, I understand. I don't see how this can be reconciled with our stated and published policies, but maybe that's just me. FYI, if that's the policy, I will have a bunch of 46 Long Uniforms available shortly, from Mess down to BDU's.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2016, 01:44:56 PM »

Roger that. Here is my particular situation: I have a terminal disease, acquired in the course and scope of my employment as a Paramilitary Contractor, working for our Uncle Sam during Hurricane Katrina.  Going to meetings could be occasionally possible, but the idea that I would ever be active in my former CAP job as a GTL, or in any job that might have issues with my occasionally vomiting blood, is somewhat laughable. I notified my SQ commander via E-Mail when it became obvious that I would probably not be terribly active, but would continue to pay dues, support CAP, and handle whatever duties I could should I recover or go into remission. This morning I was advised that our Deputy Commander for Seniors had downgraded my membership status to Patron, which I find somewhat insulting, but if kicking all the disabled people off the SQ roster to gundeck the reports is the standard policy, I understand. I don't see how this can be reconciled with our stated and published policies, but maybe that's just me. FYI, if that's the policy, I will have a bunch of 46 Long Uniforms available shortly, from Mess down to BDU's.


Alternatively,


Policies are policies. You can take an online safety quiz in less time than this thread took.
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ALORD
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« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2016, 02:16:28 PM »

Well, if I had not been involuntarily converted to a Patron member I could, but Patron members don't have access to online Safety tests!
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2016, 02:27:34 PM »

Well, if I had not been involuntarily converted to a Patron member I could, but Patron members don't have access to online Safety tests!

This is an issue we had. People actually fought back, but still refused to do the bare minimum to remain an "active" member. It was too much of a pain to come to a meeting, talk to the commander, get their CPPT done, get access back, and take a safety module. Too far to walk, I guess. Those are the ones I had no issue saying "buh bye" to. It's the ones who had a legitimate issue that I lost tears over. It's not like we went through and slammed them in the Patron bin all willy-nilly and higgledy-piggledy. We gave them multiple opportunities to fix the situation, and they refused, and when they finally realized we were serious, they pitched a fit. Not really people I want around, anyway.
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ALORD
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« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2016, 02:45:19 PM »

Well, it looks like a former DC for Seniors was trying to do a purge, and "converted" me to Patron status. ( Not even a Patron Saint!) I have been assured that the correct buttons to be pushed will be, and I will be a regular member once again, THEN I can do Safety ( Joy) quizzes. I am not sure exactly what "Higgledy-Piggeldy" is precisely, but it sounds like that was the methodology employed, or the nearest metric equivalent, and maybe an inspecting I.G giving the SQ Commander a little, slightly outdated, advice on cleaning up the roster. Apparently, there is sort of an epidemic of safety non-compliance for people actively attending, but not spending the required 15 minutes per month listening to power points about running with scissors. Suggestion: Put all safety presentations on YouTube so we can all... enjoy them...
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NIN
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« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2016, 04:30:21 PM »

Well, it looks like a former DC for Seniors was trying to do a purge, and "converted" me to Patron status. ( Not even a Patron Saint!) I have been assured that the correct buttons to be pushed will be, and I will be a regular member once again, THEN I can do Safety ( Joy) quizzes. I am not sure exactly what "Higgledy-Piggeldy" is precisely, but it sounds like that was the methodology employed, or the nearest metric equivalent, and maybe an inspecting I.G giving the SQ Commander a little, slightly outdated, advice on cleaning up the roster. Apparently, there is sort of an epidemic of safety non-compliance for people actively attending, but not spending the required 15 minutes per month listening to power points about running with scissors. Suggestion: Put all safety presentations on YouTube so we can all... enjoy them...

Getting the "Winter driving" Safety seminar in Florida, or "Tornados!" in, say, downtown Boston.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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ALORD
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« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2016, 04:38:27 PM »

Ahhhhh, very practical presentations. I would like to congratulate our safety people on drastically reducing the number of severe paper cut injuries sustained by Command-Level staff by computerization of all things CAP. This unfortunately, created an epidemic of Video screen eye strain, repetitive strain injuries, and PTSD with suicidal ideation as related to power point presentations! The horror...the horror...
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THRAWN
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« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2016, 04:59:06 PM »

Well, it looks like a former DC for Seniors was trying to do a purge, and "converted" me to Patron status. ( Not even a Patron Saint!) I have been assured that the correct buttons to be pushed will be, and I will be a regular member once again, THEN I can do Safety ( Joy) quizzes. I am not sure exactly what "Higgledy-Piggeldy" is precisely, but it sounds like that was the methodology employed, or the nearest metric equivalent, and maybe an inspecting I.G giving the SQ Commander a little, slightly outdated, advice on cleaning up the roster. Apparently, there is sort of an epidemic of safety non-compliance for people actively attending, but not spending the required 15 minutes per month listening to power points about running with scissors. Suggestion: Put all safety presentations on YouTube so we can all... enjoy them...

Getting the "Winter driving" Safety seminar in Florida, or "Tornados!" in, say, downtown Boston.

Funny you mention both of those examples. After the nightmare of ice in Atlanta and down into the northern part of Florida of last winter, it should be included. The tornado one is funny. We've had a number of them in the Philly area over the past couple of years. It is as common as in OKC? No, but it's still a pretty good chance that there will be at least one per year.
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JeffDG
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« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2016, 10:28:26 PM »

Okay, Help me out. My SQ commander was told to transfer any member who had not attended meetings and was not "Safety Current"  into "patron Status by the (wing?) I.G. My SQ has a bunch of old guys who have been spindled folded and mutilated ( like me) but since they have not attended SQ safety meetings, they were involuntarily demoted to Patron members to clean up the Inspection report. Is this Kosher? Did the I.G lead my SQ commander down the primrose path?

A few of points:

1)  The Wing IG cannot direct a commander to the mens/ladies room.
2)  Lack of "Safety currency" is no longer grounds for any finding on an SUI
3)  I know in our wing, commanders have been specifically directed NOT to transfer people to Patron or 000 status for this reason.

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JeffDG
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« Reply #35 on: January 11, 2016, 10:30:47 PM »

Sq/CC must do what he is ordered to do, however there is no requirement to do so nationwide.  Most non compliant members aren't active in ES, so that isn't a problem.  As I understand things, Non compliant members can still do AE or CP.  They can go to meetings and conferences.  They can even participate on missions, however before they begin the event, it's good practice to get them compliant...

There are no more "non-compliant" members.

Units are required to deliver safety education.  Members are no longer required to receive it.
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ALORD
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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2016, 11:09:44 AM »

I suspect that the input about safety came from an I.G. Inspecting Officer, not the actual I.G., who I would not expect to see at the Squadron unless the Squadron or a member had committed some heinous act, which admittedly is not out of the question...I believe that a well-meaning, but somewhat behind-the-times Inspector thought the SQ report would look shinier and brighter if all the members (cadet and otherwise)  were "safety current". ( Even Patron's, for whom such a status is impossible) At least, they did not suggest doing non-renewals, keel-hauling, or death by musketry fire, like CAP did in "The Old Days". My Squadron Commander apparently took the advice of the I.G. inspector as Gospel, since presumably inspecting officers in CAWG have god-like knowledge of all aspects of CAPR's. Although I believe my Sq commander will change my status back to real-member, I do not think I have convinced her, based primarily on the ICL ( Isn't that ICL expired anyway?) that Safety Currency is dead....its just a kind of Zombie
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2016, 11:18:06 AM »

I have to clarify my earlier statement. The "purge" was done with regards to CPPT, not safety. Safety was a totally different issue. People refused to do the simplest of tasks, take an online CPPT module, then have a short convo with the commander, then pitched all manners of fits when they were moved to Patron AFTER REPEATED IGNORED REQUESTS to rectify the situation. Not our choice.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #38 on: January 12, 2016, 11:22:50 AM »

So, I'm going to be "that guy" and ask a potentially stupid question that's probably already been answered...

Yes or no--- Is there a requirement per National to complete monthly safety education (not perform it, but receive it) in order to continue as an active member?

This topic is floating around at various squadrons in my wing and everyone seems to have a different answer. It was my understanding that safety currency, as it has been put, is "dead," and that we are no longer required to receive a monthly safety lecture; however we are still required to perform it once a month and provide appropriate safety briefings before activities, as applicable/appropriate.

Am I mistaken here?
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #39 on: January 12, 2016, 11:28:34 AM »

There's no longer a requirement to be safety "current", but there's still a requirement for units to conduct monthly safety education briefings and for members to participate in approved safety education whether in person or online. Now, a member going past what used to be consider "current" can still participate in activities and missions.

Now, there's another issue related to active participation. Members are required to participate in one way or another to be considered Active members (cf. CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1.a). While some regions and wings have asked units not to transfer members to Patron status because of safety currency, unit commanders are free to transfer members to Patron status if they're not active members or if they have incomplete training. That said, the unit commander must notify the member of the pending transfer and, if the member objects, he or she has 90 days to complete any missing requirements (cf. CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1.b(3)(a)).

Furthermore, a member transferred to Patron status can request to be transferred back to Active status at any time using a CAPF 2A (cf. CAPR 39-2, Para. 3-1.b(3)(b)).

Bottom line is, it takes only a few minutes to complete online safety education. But even is a member has completed this monthly requirement, members must participate in some way to be in Active status. If a member has a physical limitation or medical condition preventing them from active participation, I recommend discussing this with their commander. There are many duties that can be done from home and that don't require too much time. That can be a way continue contributing without necessarily participating in all meetings and activities.

(edited for grammar)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 11:32:44 AM by Storm Chaser » Logged
Garibaldi
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Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2016, 11:29:18 AM »

So, I'm going to be "that guy" and ask a potentially stupid question that's probably already been answered...

Yes or no--- Is there a requirement per National to complete monthly safety education (not perform it, but receive it) in order to continue as an active member?

This topic is floating around at various squadrons in my wing and everyone seems to have a different answer. It was my understanding that safety currency, as it has been put, is "dead," and that we are no longer required to receive a monthly safety lecture; however we are still required to perform it once a month and provide appropriate safety briefings before activities, as applicable/appropriate.

Am I mistaken here?

I thought it was applicable only to ES qualifications. No safety, no mission related activity for the member.

A-HA!!! an ICL exists outlining the new process!

1. CAPR 62-1 is currently undergoing a major revision to reflect implementation of the new Safety Management System. This interim change letter will remain in effect until such time as the new CAPR 62-1 is complete and published.

2. Monthly safety education is an integral part of the quest to instill a high level of safety knowledge and a strong safety culture throughout the Civil Air Patrol. It is intended to compliment but not inhibit member participation in CAP missions. Under the terms of this change to CAPR 62-1, monthly safety education will still be mandatory for all members of Civil Air Patrol, however all references to safety “currency” are being removed from the regulation. Units at all levels are required to present a monthly safety education briefing as currently outlined in CAPR 62-1, and members are expected to attend. If scheduling conflicts do not allow attendance members may receive their monthly safety education through one of the alternate methods described in CAPR 62-1. Commanders at every level will be held responsible for ensuring compliance with this requirement, and attendance/participation rates will be scrutinized as a metric in the Commander’s Dashboard in eServices

So....just gonna leave this here....I'll play myself out...
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,128

« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2016, 01:48:03 PM »

Sq/CC must do what he is ordered to do, however there is no requirement to do so nationwide.  Most non compliant members aren't active in ES, so that isn't a problem.  As I understand things, Non compliant members can still do AE or CP.  They can go to meetings and conferences.  They can even participate on missions, however before they begin the event, it's good practice to get them compliant...

There are no more "non-compliant" members.

Units are required to deliver safety education.  Members are no longer required to receive it.

Well said... ;D
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,567
Unit: of issue

« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2016, 03:02:28 PM »

OK, great.

So here's what I did (as a commander) even before "Safety Currency" was a thing:

I had a safety officer (technically still do) who was probably one of the most engaging safety officers I've ever dealt with.  He was really good and brought a lot to the table (he's a nurse-practitioner in an industrial health practice situation.. he sees guys with nails thru their hands, abrasions and injuries from falls, boots to the head, crap like that, day in and day out. IOW, he's seen all the good stuff!) and gave great safety briefings on a monthly basis.

He complained to me one night that when it was safety briefing time, the "audience" for the brief dwindled each night. The cadet staff would use that time to "do something else," the senior staff would be off "doing senior staff stuff," etc, and it was pretty disappointing (to him) that more and more people were finding ways to "ditch" the safety briefing that was "required."

So I immediately put the word out "On safety briefing nights, EVERYBODY will be in the safety briefing. No exceptions."

Of course, people tried. 

"What are you doing? Why aren't you in the safety briefing?"
"Oh, I have to score these tests."
"No, you need to be in the safety briefing."
"But.. the deputy commander for cadets told me I have to.."
"Score the tests later.  Briefing now. Come with me."

As the commander, I worked with my deputies so that they understood "There is no reason apart from an imminent death, preferably their own, for someone to miss the safety briefing if they are at the meeting."

And then I set the standard: I was at every safety briefing.  "If the commander is there, you'd better be there."

I'd note who wasn't there and find them after with the respective deputy commander:

"Why weren't you at the safety briefing?"
"Well, I uh, I had stuff I was doing in the office."
"I had stuff to do, too, but I took the time to go to the safety briefing.  Do you know that the unit policy is that everybody goes to the safety briefing? You know that its my intent that everybody goes to the safety briefing?"
"Yeah, but, I, uh..."
"So you know the unit policy, MY policy, on safety briefings, and you know that its necessary, but you decided on your own that the old man's instructions and his intent aren't good enough?"

Usually it didn't take but 1-2 of these conversations to impress upon everybody "The old man is serious about everybody being in the briefing.."  and then you had people running around rounding up people and you'd hear "You better get to the safety briefing!"

The deputy commanders didn't like having to take time out of their busy schedules to spend 10-15 minutes dealing with their people who thought they were exempt.  And pretty quickly, the safety briefing was *the* place to be.
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,676

« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2016, 03:48:34 PM »


Units are required to deliver safety education.  Members are no longer required to receive it.


I respectfully disagree. Members are no longer required to be safety current to participate in activities or missions, nor are we tracking safety currency anymore. But members ARE still required to receive monthly safety education.

Quote from: ICL to CAPR 62-1, 29 June 2015

All active CAP members (seniors, cadets, cadet sponsors, 50 year and life members) must received safety education briefings.

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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 885
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2016, 04:10:18 PM »

NIN, I'm on board with your policy/examples.

In the interest of my demonstrated time management skills (or the CAP cat-herding version therof) I've asked my staff to cooperate on spreading these prompts.

(As an aside, do you really call yourself the "old man")?

Cheers
Spam
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NIN
VIP

Posts: 4,567
Unit: of issue

« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2016, 04:13:21 PM »

NIN, I'm on board with your policy/examples.

In the interest of my demonstrated time management skills (or the CAP cat-herding version therof) I've asked my staff to cooperate on spreading these prompts.

(As an aside, do you really call yourself the "old man")?

When speaking in the "generic third person," occasionally.

Its an old habit referring to the commander as "the old man."

My current squadron commander is a woman.  "Old woman" just sound mean, so I haven't come up with a similar phrase.  "Old lady" sounds like I'm talking about my ex-wife. :)

(Plus, saying "Old woman" conjures up Holy Grail-esque conversations)
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,327
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2016, 04:13:36 PM »

NIN, I'm on board with your policy/examples.

In the interest of my demonstrated time management skills (or the CAP cat-herding version therof) I've asked my staff to cooperate on spreading these prompts.

(As an aside, do you really call yourself the "old man")?

Cheers
Spam

He's our age, so...
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 885
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2016, 04:39:26 PM »

Makes sense, unless your name is Sisko, and are referring to Jadzia Dax as "Old Man", right? Symbiont rules are so confusing...

... and now, back to your safety thread, kids!

V/R
Spam
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ALORD
Member

Posts: 73
Unit: PCR-CA-123

« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2016, 05:13:35 PM »

I have been inactive for awhile, but aren't interim change letters only valid for 90 days, and then stale date, presumably to be replaced by an actual Regulation change? I may have to go back and read several years of CapTalk to see what else has changed! Is there a new 52-16? 39-1? Are we supposed to sew flags on our BDU's? Have any more National Commander been 2B'd?

I think it is a safe bet to say that NIN is old enough t qualify for the "old man" (skipper) title, especially in an organization that has had 97 year old 1st Lt's!
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Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,327
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2016, 05:20:38 PM »

I have been inactive for awhile, but aren't interim change letters only valid for 90 days, and then stale date, presumably to be replaced by an actual Regulation change? I may have to go back and read several years of CapTalk to see what else has changed! Is there a new 52-16? 39-1? Are we supposed to sew flags on our BDU's? Have any more National Commander been 2B'd?

I think it is a safe bet to say that NIN is old enough t qualify for the "old man" (skipper) title, especially in an organization that has had 97 year old 1st Lt's!

FROM: CAP/CC
SUBJECT: Interim Change Letter - CAPR 62-1 CAP SAFETY RESPONSIBILITIES AND
PROCEDURES
1. CAPR 62-1 is currently undergoing a major revision to reflect implementation of the new Safety Management System. This interim change letter will remain in effect until such time as the new CAPR 62-1 is complete and published.
*************************

CAPM 39-1 has been rescinded in all forms, we are free to wear we want now.

CAPR 52-16 has been rescinded in all forms. Cadets are henceforth subject to the UCMJ for infractions. SM officers are beholden to the UCMJ and its administration of judicial and non-judicial punishment, to include forfeiture of allowances, reduction in rank, and grounding.

Seriously, though, both manuals have undergone serious revision in the last few years. The Cadet PFT guide has been retooled.
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 847

« Reply #50 on: January 13, 2016, 04:17:02 PM »

I have been inactive for awhile, but aren't interim change letters only valid for 90 days, and then stale date, presumably to be replaced by an actual Regulation change? I may have to go back and read several years of CapTalk to see what else has changed! Is there a new 52-16? 39-1? Are we supposed to sew flags on our BDU's? Have any more National Commander been 2B'd?

I think it is a safe bet to say that NIN is old enough t qualify for the "old man" (skipper) title, especially in an organization that has had 97 year old 1st Lt's!

FROM: CAP/CC
SUBJECT: Interim Change Letter - CAPR 62-1 CAP SAFETY RESPONSIBILITIES AND
PROCEDURES
1. CAPR 62-1 is currently undergoing a major revision to reflect implementation of the new Safety Management System. This interim change letter will remain in effect until such time as the new CAPR 62-1 is complete and published.
*************************

CAPM 39-1 has been rescinded in all forms, we are free to wear we want now.

CAPR 52-16 has been rescinded in all forms. Cadets are henceforth subject to the UCMJ for infractions. SM officers are beholden to the UCMJ and its administration of judicial and non-judicial punishment, to include forfeiture of allowances, reduction in rank, and grounding.

Seriously, though, both manuals have undergone serious revision in the last few years. The Cadet PFT guide has been retooled.

Can we please get this implemented? Including Art 15s and RPT sessions?
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RRLE
Seasoned Member

Posts: 488

« Reply #51 on: January 15, 2016, 08:50:40 PM »

My current squadron commander is a woman.  "Old woman" just sound mean, so I haven't come up with a similar phrase.  "Old lady" sounds like I'm talking about my ex-wife.

There is the amateur radio acronym XYL. If they don't know what it means - all the bette.
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DemonOps
Member

Posts: 98
Unit: GLR-MI-703

« Reply #52 on: September 30, 2016, 07:18:34 PM »

I'm disabled, and no longer able to drive to our unit's meetings in Grand Rapids.  I've been told the job of admin and historian officer can be done at home, which I've been doing.  I was told to just go online to do my safety briefing, but I can't find the safety page.  Said it was under construction.

Just trying to stay current.  Looks like I messed up this month.  I realized it's 30 September.  Any ideas?
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CAPT DAVID J. D'ARCY
GLR-MI-703 West Michigan Group
Historian and Administration Officer
(as of June 2017, achieved my Senior Rating, Admin Officer)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
***
Posts: 27,823

« Reply #53 on: September 30, 2016, 07:41:55 PM »

Log in to eservices (for some reason it is going directly into WMIRS for some people so click "eservices" in the upper right corner if that's the case.

(assumes using the new menu).

on left menu

SAFETY

then

Safety Information and Reporting System (SIRS) 

Safety Education (middle of page)

Just trying to stay current.  Looks like I messed up this month.  I realized it's 30 September.  Any ideas?

Knock one out before midnight Maxwell time.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

RogueLeader
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,626
Unit: Of measure

« Reply #54 on: September 30, 2016, 08:47:42 PM »

I just checked and SIRS is working for me.
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GRW 3340
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award
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Posts: 27,823

« Reply #55 on: September 30, 2016, 09:56:08 PM »

I just checked and SIRS is working for me.

My guess is he went to the Safety web page, which has been under construction for over a year.

SIRS working for me too.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
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Panther
Recruit

Posts: 9

« Reply #56 on: October 01, 2016, 12:02:34 AM »

I don't know about you, but I sure will miss that "Tire Safety" course.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 27,823

« Reply #57 on: October 01, 2016, 09:43:37 AM »

I don't know about you, but I sure will miss that "Tire Safety" course.

Still there, not going anywhere any time soon.
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"Effort" does not equal "results".
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2017 by eclipse. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

CAP_truth
Seasoned Member

Posts: 235

« Reply #58 on: October 02, 2016, 11:01:45 PM »

LMS has a link at the bottom edge of courses
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Cadet CoP
Wilson
Panther
Recruit

Posts: 9

« Reply #59 on: October 03, 2016, 11:25:12 PM »

I don't know about you, but I sure will miss that "Tire Safety" course.

Still there, not going anywhere any time soon.

It still takes the fun out of doing random quizzes  ;)
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