Delay of Promotion Due to Lack Of Personnel? Really???

[catrulz]

The CO delayed the promotion and has said it may need to wait until July.

As others have suggested, there is more to the picture here. Why July, when it is not even May quite yet?  Sounds like there's something we haven't heard yet.

Speculation: is he thinking, "delay until we have four other cadets who can do a column maneuver" (July)?  If so, he is knowingly delaying the advancement and motivation of a fast burner who could potentially be your next Flight Sergeant and eventually provide you with a Flight Commander or Cadet Commander.  You might point out that as CC and CDC (your correct office code for "DCC" by the way), thinking ahead strategically means not slowing everyone down to the least common denominator. Your goal is to push them, per the Cadet Oath, to "advance their education and training rapidly".

By the way, are your dependent cadets or his involved in this in any way?

V/R,
Spam

I agree with this, something is unspoken here.  Is the cadet expecting promotion related to you?

CAPR 52-16 5-4.  Members will not proctor or score tests for cadets who are related to them unless no other senior member is available to do so.  (this indicates "will not" if another senior member is available). 

Either the commander is not being upfront with his reasons or something has been left out of the OP story.  coudano's assessment of the command climate and the cc/dcc relationship is critical to whats occurring here.  The OP also doesn't appear to have a lot of CP experience (not a criticism, everyone has to begin at some point and time).   Many times what parents scream out as injustice, is actually the unit performing per the regulations.

So, my last question, is there someone in the unit that is or willing to mentor you in DCC duties and CP management? 

[rmutchler]

I know it has been said before, but get seniors to do formation in lieu of delaying promotion.  I have even got in formation as a Squadron CC in order to ensure the cadets succeed.  Lead by example.

[Brit_in_CAP]

I'll add my 10 cents having been a DCC in this postion.

I'm also the Testing Officer, and we have an alternate for that role.

I put whoever I had available into the formation, and that included being able to simulate a Pass in Review when that was required.  Honestly, you could even use parents to fill spaces if you needed to.  The only person I wouldn't put into formaiton as a space filler is the Testing Officer as they do need to be able to observe!  Like rmutchler said, I even put the CC in during one test.

Take hold of the program would be my advice.

[Tim Day]

Col Day, Thank you Sir for the response. The CO delayed the promotion and has said it may need to wait until July. Nowhere in CAPR- 52-16 have I seen anything about promotion delay due to lack of people for a DRill Test

That doesn't seem good, as others have stated. You may be able to handle this with the help of your Wing Director of Cadet Programs, who may be able to send an email to all CCs reviewing promotion policies. That way you are using your staff coordination authorities versus skipping the chain of command (like you would be if you went to the Group CC). Note that if a CC denies a promotion he is required to explain why.

CAPR 52-16.e. Sustaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders may sustain a promotion-eligible cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feed-back to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

So your Commander owes this Cadet a CAPF 50 with specific instructions as to how to promote, which means the whole decision must be in writing.

[coudano]

Col Day, Thank you Sir for the response. The CO delayed the promotion and has said it may need to wait until July. Nowhere in CAPR- 52-16 have I seen anything about promotion delay due to lack of people for a DRill Test

That doesn't seem good, as others have stated. You may be able to handle this with the help of your Wing Director of Cadet Programs, who may be able to send an email to all CCs reviewing promotion policies. That way you are using your staff coordination authorities versus skipping the chain of command (like you would be if you went to the Group CC). Note that if a CC denies a promotion he is required to explain why.

CAPR 52-16.e. Sustaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders may sustain a promotion-eligible cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feed-back to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

So your Commander owes this Cadet a CAPF 50 with specific instructions as to how to promote, which means the whole decision must be in writing.

not really...
the cadet isn't "promotion eligible" until he passes the drill test.

It sounds to me like the drill test is the thing being put off until July.



That said, you "can't" just not offer any CPFT's, or character development sessions, for a few months, for some reason or the other...   Because it's inconvenient, or you can't find a way to staff it.  --especially to just one cadet.

You figure out a solution and press.


--once again, end running the commander by coordinating through wing CP is going to cause you nothing but problems at home.

[Tim Day]

Col Day, Thank you Sir for the response. The CO delayed the promotion and has said it may need to wait until July. Nowhere in CAPR- 52-16 have I seen anything about promotion delay due to lack of people for a DRill Test

That doesn't seem good, as others have stated. You may be able to handle this with the help of your Wing Director of Cadet Programs, who may be able to send an email to all CCs reviewing promotion policies. That way you are using your staff coordination authorities versus skipping the chain of command (like you would be if you went to the Group CC). Note that if a CC denies a promotion he is required to explain why.

CAPR 52-16.e. Sustaining a Cadet in Grade. Commanders may sustain a promotion-eligible cadet in grade if the cadet's performance or maturity does not demonstrate an ability to accept increased responsibility commensurate with the promotion. Using the CAPF 50, Cadet Leadership Feedback, the commander (or deputy commander) will offer constructive feed-back to help the cadet develop his/her leadership skills. The commander must also schedule a follow-up review to be held within 60 days.

So your Commander owes this Cadet a CAPF 50 with specific instructions as to how to promote, which means the whole decision must be in writing.

not really...
the cadet isn't "promotion eligible" until he passes the drill test.

It sounds to me like the drill test is the thing being put off until July.



That said, you "can't" just not offer any CPFT's, or character development sessions, for a few months, for some reason or the other...   Because it's inconvenient, or you can't find a way to staff it.  --especially to just one cadet.

You figure out a solution and press.


--once again, end running the commander by coordinating through wing CP is going to cause you nothing but problems at home.

CAPR 52-16 also requires Commanders to offer testing at least once every 30 days and to provide a consistent advancement opportunity to all Cadets. This CC, by this account, is denying a promotion opportunity to a cadet.

A CDC talking to a Wing DCP is not end-running the Commander. It's well within a CDC's staff lines of communication to speak to the DCP to clarify policy in order to provide your best recommendation to your CC. Just like your squadron Ops O can talk to the Wing Ops O about aircraft availability. And if the CC is willfully violating the CAPR 52-16, the DCP needs to know.

Waiting until July outright violates the Commander's responsibility as directed by the CAPR 52-16 - but your CC may not be aware of this as many rely on their CDC for Cadet Program knowledge.

[coudano]

CAPR 52-16 requires commanders to offer the opportunity to take WRITTEN TESTS (milestones, or cadets who can not test academics online for some reason) at least once every 30 days

5-4. Protocols for Paper-Based Exams. All cadet milestone award exams, except the Spaatz Award exam, (see 5-12) are available in hard copy format only. Milestone award exams are always closed book, but their test conditions vary, as shown in Figure 5-1. Members will not proctor or score tests for cadets who are related to them unless no other senior member is available to do so.

a. Frequency. Commanders will provide cadets an opportunity to test at least once every 30 days. Cadets who fail tests or exams may not retest on the same date.

Drill testing, under a different section, carries no such requirement or restriction:

5-6. Drill Tests. Some leadership tests require cadets to perform drill and ceremonies. Cadets may help proctor drill tests under adult leader supervision. Cadets who are unable to drill due to a disability or injury will complete drill tests to the extent possible. The commander may waive all or part of a drill test for Physical Fitness Category II, III or IV cadets (see 2-10).

I agree, that talking with your counterparts at other squadrons, group, and wing itself is not an end-run.  However, when it goes the next step, by the wing staff office leading the wing commander to come out and make an edict to squadron commanders (as suggested above), you start getting into end-run territory.  Squadron commanders aren't particularly dumb...  Commander makes a decision X, at the protest of one of his subordinates and a few weeks later, mysteriously...  wing commander is publicly announcing how "X" isn't proper.  He can probably figure out to a pretty good degree of certainty how that happened...  Again, it's not explicitly forbidden to do so (neither is just testing and promoting the cadet yourself, as a deputy commander); however it isn't going to make any friends.


If the squadron commander is willfully violating regulations, the "right" person to talk to is probably the IG (which also won't make you any friends at home).  However, in this case, I don't think you can show that the squadron commander is explicitly breaking any rule.


The BEST person to talk to about this issue is the squadron commander, directly.


All that said, I fully agree... that just waiting until July is not ideal.

[lordmonar]

While 52-16 does not specify a mandatory testing opportunity for drill testing.   It is obvious that it is in the spirit of the regulation that an opportunity be given. 

As for the "right" person to talk to....you are wrong.   The right person to talk to is the group or wing commander.   That is the chain of command.   You are not jumping the chain of command....as you have already talked to the commander in question.....and he is the problem.

Also.....the commander is explicitly breaking the regulations....at least as far as the OP's information shows. 

[coudano]

Yah sure, I was suggesting going back to the squadron commander first, to try and work it out.

But yeah, the group commander would be "next" (supposing that you even HAVE a group commander)

However, let's think through the options available to the group commander...


1. Outright support the appointed squadron commander (tell the offended member to shut up and color).  This is probably default.  And especially so if your group/cc is not heavily experienced with the cadet program.

2.  Do nothing at all.  Wait for it to go away on its own.  In July(?)  Which is basically the same thing as supporting the appointed squadron commander.  This is also (probably) the most likely course of action...  By the time a group commander takes the time to understand what is going on, and arrive at a decision, and actually take something resembling a command action, it might be July anyway...

3. Support the offended member (tell the appointed squadron commander he is wrong, and expected to reverse his decision).  Not going to make any friends at home.  --Maybe your squadron commander is already on the edge and this is just the straw on the camel's back.   Careful though, if squadron commander quits in a huff, or is even removed, guess who the new squadron commander is... (!!!)

4.  Escalate the issue to a higher level of command.  Probably very unlikely.

5.  Mediate the discussion that you should be having directly with your squadron commander anyway, to facilitate working out your local issues at the local level.  Very unlikely, I think, but a wise group commander might try this.



Look,
there are things that you CAN do, and that are not regulatorily forbidden, and some that are even explicitly allowed paths for you to follow.  However, just because you CAN do something doesn't mean that you SHOULD do it.   The long term consequences of your course could adversely affect your relationship with the squadron, and could even damage the squadron for a long time.

Getting your cadet the opportunity to promote before July seems like the immediate goal.  And you can probably accomplish that goal if you don't mind scorching a little earth.  Pretty much the entire cadet program community has already agreed that withholding this cadet until July for the reason stated, is poor policy and probably a bad CP philosophy.

But establishing a working relationship amongst the staff of the squadron, and creating a local model of the cadet program that prevents this sort of situation from happening in the future, is the better way to make the squadron and cadet program stronger, and sustain volunteers who will continue to input the local program longer.  That makes a better program and a more positive environment for your cadet to continue to participate in after putting on that third stripe.  That really should be the big picture goal, here (in my opinion).

[lordmonar]

Yep all true.

I was just pointing out that while the IG route is available.....we should always use the chain of command when possible.

Going to the IG vs going to the group/wing commander has all the same consequences as far as "do you really want to rock the boat" goes.   We should be encouraging our members to use the proper channels but to intelligently with malice aforethought to challenge our leaders when ever they do something that does not seem right.

I don't know what is going on in the OP's commander's mind.

He may just think....Let's wait until July and there won't be such a rank gap.  Or "In July the rest of the squadron should be up to speed to give a better test".  Or maybe there is something not being said......"How do I tell Mrs Cadetmom that little Johnny is not ready for promotion with out here freaking out"......or any number of different issues.

The bottom line is.

We should not be holding back cadets from promoting just because of an "admin" issue.   "we can't give you the test because we don't have pencils"  is not an answer I would accept as wing CP Director. 

But if the wing CP director does not know what is going on.....nothing is going to get fixed.

[MSG Mac]

If I recall the Feik Achievement  is the drill of an element. Surely the cadet has three cadets to drill. It should be able to be done at a regular meeting as a part of his drilling with his/her flight. 

[abdsp51]

Alot of unknowns here. 

I think we can all agree that cadets should have every opportunity possible to test to advance in the program. 

Rereading what the OP stated, she stated "may have to wait until July" not has to or will but may.  Now we all know this is not ideal for anyone involved with the dynamic.  And I am curious how long she has been a CDC and how much experience she has in cadet programs.  I would also be curious to know how long the CC has been CC and his/her cadet programs experience. 

The Feik achievement for drill is advanced drill as part of a flight.  I am sure that some arrangement can be made with another unit to assist for this.  There have been some great suggestions in how to handle this and I would say that the best one is to talk to CC away from everyone and see where their thought process is. 

I know that if I ever become a Sq CC I would prefer to have my staff tell me I am wrong than to be blindsided by something.

[Tim Day]

But yeah, the group commander would be "next" (supposing that you even HAVE a group commander)

However, let's think through the options available to the group commander...

There is a difference between following the chain-of-command and staff coordination. Generally, unless you know there's a willful violation of a regulation it makes sense to coordinate with staff before engaging Commanders above your Unit Commander if possible. If there really is an outright violation (and there may not be - could be just a misunderstanding) the DCP can elevate as appropriate. If it's a misunderstanding, the DCP can help develop a new CDC a bit. That's why staffs exist.

Additionally, the DCP is there to support the Wing CC's responsibility toward the Cadet Program wing-wide, including correcting any negative trends. It's rare that a policy misinterpretation is limited to one squadron.

Your bit there about the limited options available to a Group CC supports my point about coordinating staff-staff first. The DCP can't direct the Squadron Commander to do anything (but he can inform commanders about the Wing Commander's guidance). A DCP can clarify policy (for example, a DCP could work with NHQ/CP to clarify whether the spirit of the regulation is that there is a minimum required drill testing opportunity rate). OBTW, if you have a Group DCP that'd be my first go-to rather than the Wing DCP, but I think these are rare.

Now, if your point is that prior to reporting something to the IG the CDC should go back to CC with a proposed course of action, e.g., we need to provide this Cadet with a drill test using 2 SM to fill in the shortfall, here's what CAPR 52-16 states about testing opportunities, and here's the DCP's interpretation, then I agree, and that's a good clarification. I would only advise going to a Commander above or filing an IG report if the Squadron Commander willfully violates regulations or policy.

[catrulz]

A good IG, Chaplain, DCP, higher lever CC are all going to ask, have you discussed this with your Squadron CC.  The information provided to this forum, does not demonstrate that that discussion has taken place.  There are two sides to all stories, and there is only 1/2 of this one.  The Sqdn CC may be violating CAPR 52-16 or may not be.  I would agree that the drill test should be administered before promotion is denied for other reason, and yes documented on CAPF 50.

Based on posts from the OP, we are not hearing from an experienced CAP member, let alone an experienced CDC (cadet programs officer).  I say again, there is no shame in being new or inexperienced.  But without experience, and without the other side of the story, any advice will do more harm than good.  Only a small percentage of complaints that end up at the IG, could not have been solved at the lowest level, with good communication between the individual filing the complaint and the target of the complaint. 

I have seen 4 cases of over-bearing, cadet career pushing parents in the last 15 years. My squadron is down to 5 cadets now because of having the guts ripped out of it by such an example.  It takes years to recover from some one that is overly focused on their cadet, and under focused on the entire cadet program.  The question was never answered, is the cadet related to the OP?   How many other CP officers are in the unit?  Is anyone mentoring DCCMOM in CP?  Is the CC overly focused on some unit event like an upcoming SUI?  There are simply too many unknowns.

Please, do not destroy any cohesion your unit may have, without making a heroic effort to resolve this within your unit with your CC.  Call your CC on a non-meeting night, go out and have coffee, and discuss it one on one, calmly and rationally.  There is a time and place to file complaints, or seek staff assistance.  But remember, CAP units unlike military units are not a group of professionals, but rather a group of friends that act professionally.  To maintain a climate within your unit, you have to maintain inter-personal relationships that ensure continued harmonious operations.

If you are absolutely right, then you may have to file a complaint.  Which may result down the road in you having to find a new CAP home, or leaving the organization.  Remember, the IG, DCP, Group/Wing CC is going to look at this from all angles, not only yours!   

[Tim Day]

Ok, rather than add another comment I'll just include a link to the CAP Officer Basic Course, with a recommendation that anyone with questions on the difference between "line" (command)  and "staff" officers review the "CAP Chain of Command" lesson in Block 2.

One of the beautiful things about CAP is the diversity of opinions out here, and if the OP is a new member of CAP she'll likely benefit from reviewing what CAP actually teaches about these concepts and making up her own mind.

[ZigZag911]

Yep all true.

I was just pointing out that while the IG route is available.....we should always use the chain of command when possible.

Going to the IG vs going to the group/wing commander has all the same consequences as far as "do you really want to rock the boat" goes.   We should be encouraging our members to use the proper channels but to intelligently with malice aforethought to challenge our leaders when ever they do something that does not seem right.

And, in fact, the IG program encourages the use of chain of command, and that problems be addressed & resolved at the lowest echelon possible...ideally, with the least conflict,  fuss and formailty possible!

[LSThiker]

There are a lot of holes in the story that have lots of questions.  However, until then, it will just simply be speculation.  Considering that she has not responded for 6 days, I think she has moved on from this issue (at least in the realm of CAPTalk).

[Майор Хаткевич]

I assumed that it was her kid. Just got that vibe. Maybe the CC has the typical "hard conversation disfunction" that most in CAP have, and this was the way to delay promotion without explaining it to mom. Dunno, just the vibe I got.

[CAPDCCMOM]

Actually, No it was not my Kid. My job is to see every Cadet as my "kid". I would advocate just as hard for any Cadet. I was and am still trying to figure out regulations that read like Chinese to English translations for setting up a stereo.

Ask a question, get blasted on this forum. Don't ask and pretend....fit right in in this forum.

[CadetSnuffy]

Ask a question, get blasted on this forum. Don't ask and pretend....fit right in in this forum.

You know this forum too well...