Flight Lessons through CAP

[Critical AOA]

 :clap:  Well put Cliff.  Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

[Eclipse]

:clap:  Well put Cliff. Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

Actually, that's exactly what that means.

[tsrup]

:clap:  Well put Cliff. Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

Actually, that's exactly what that means.

The sport pilot rating is an extremely restrictive rating that operates under the premise that if you are medically able and fit to operate an automobile, then you (with proper training and rating) are able to operate under a sport pilot ticket.

We also recently had a cadet who failed a medical go to Flight academy this summer.  He was medically able to fly, however his ticket restricted him to No-Solo. 

Unfit to fly=No medical
but
No Medical =/= unfit to fly.

[Critical AOA]

:clap:  Well put Cliff. Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

Actually, that's exactly what that means.

Nope.

Not passing a FAA medical only means that the AME using his authority granted by the FAA doesn't want you to fly.

Sometimes this is due to his erring on the side of caution in good faith.  Other times it is due to his lack of understanding of the flight environment (most are not pilots) and what truly would make a person unsafe as a pilot.

Then of course, they are operating under flawed regulations and the FAA's definitions of what might be medical condition that could possibly under worst case scenarios make one unfit to fly.  The FAA is full of pessimists and control freaks. 

Those of us who have lived and breathed aviation for a very long time understand the nature of this beast.   

[denverpilot]

All AMEs are not made equal, either.

There are Docs who are AMEs who barely know the regs and do NOT know what OKC is looking for when issuing special issuances, and there are Docs that not only specialize as AMEs for a living, but are also asked to attend special courses at FAA for Advanced AME activities, such as HIMS.

(The only FAA authorized program for folks with addictions, just as one example of advanced things not all AMEs get to participate in. There are just over 100 HIMS certified AMEs while there are thousands of AMEs overall.)

Guess which AMEs are deeply understanding of FAA's systems and requirements, and which maybe aren't?

Some AMEs are just Docs who've added "Aeromedical" to their list of other things like truck driver DOT physicals and "call to pee" drug programs, they're often not aviation specialists.

Many aren't pilots either. They have no idea what you are going through.

If you believe you may have a difficult medical, I highly recommend talking to THIS AME ahead of time:

http://home.comcast.net/~bbchien/site/

Call Bruce and ask him. Pay him for a consultation. Ask him which AME in your area he recommends. If he says he wants to handle your case personally, pony up the bucks and fly to Illinois. 

A good Aviation specialist AME is worth their weight in gold. Sometimes the "problems" people run into with "the FAA" are really just a clueless AME submitting paperwork out of order or with the wrong wording for FAA's requirements.

The ADD is a tough one. Over-prescription of drugs to kids for over-diagnosed "ADD" is a significant problem according to Dr. Chien. FAA needs not only to know the specifics of the diagnosis (often that happened decades ago for older adult pilots who were given Ritalin as kids) and a whole bunch of other info.

Parents not asking if the diagnosis is based in something objective and/or who just give in and put the kids on Ritalin are seriously affecting the kids future lives as adults when the hit the FAA Aeromedical process.

[jtimpano]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

[LTCTerry]

I had my first O ride yesterday and had the time of my life. We did about 10 parabolas...

According to the Cadet Orientation Flight Pamphlet, "Pilots will not perform extreme maneuvers, aerobatics, spins or emergency procedures." A parabola is not a figure required for either a private pilot or a commercial pilot. If the flight exceeded a pitch angle of +/-30 degrees then it was an aerobatic flight - sadly prohibited by CAP regs - and you should have been wearing a parachute. Maybe you stayed within +/-29 degrees and it's OK...

The syllabus for the first powered orientation flight says, "Point out the airplane's attitude in relation to the horizon and different airspeeds" so I suppose it would be OK as long as your O- flight pilot was saying, "See how we accelerate as the nose goes well below the horizon? Feel the G's as I pitch up aggressively beyond the normal pitch attitude for practice stalls? Hear the stall warning indicator as our speed decays? It's OK; we're in zero-G flight now and can't stall. Speed coming back up...

There's nothing in the O-flight booklet that permits or encourages something like this. My example above is a tongue-in-cheek comment and not  an attempt at fitting your pilot's actions into some "spirit" of the syllabus.

I'll grant you that it was fun, but in my opinion it should not have happened.

Cheers

TP

[Garibaldi]

I had my first O ride yesterday and had the time of my life. We did about 10 parabolas...

According to the Cadet Orientation Flight Pamphlet, "Pilots will not perform extreme maneuvers, aerobatics, spins or emergency procedures." A parabola is not a figure required for either a private pilot or a commercial pilot. If the flight exceeded a pitch angle of +/-30 degrees then it was an aerobatic flight - sadly prohibited by CAP regs - and you should have been wearing a parachute. Maybe you stayed within +/-29 degrees and it's OK...

The syllabus for the first powered orientation flight says, "Point out the airplane's attitude in relation to the horizon and different airspeeds" so I suppose it would be OK as long as your O- flight pilot was saying, "See how we accelerate as the nose goes well below the horizon? Feel the G's as I pitch up aggressively beyond the normal pitch attitude for practice stalls? Hear the stall warning indicator as our speed decays? It's OK; we're in zero-G flight now and can't stall. Speed coming back up...

There's nothing in the O-flight booklet that permits or encourages something like this. My example above is a tongue-in-cheek comment and not  an attempt at fitting your pilot's actions into some "spirit" of the syllabus.

I'll grant you that it was fun, but in my opinion it should not have happened.

Cheers

TP

One of my O-flights, the pilot allowed each of us a minute or so on the "stick". I almost died that day when one cadet pushed the thing to the firewall then yanked it back when he realized we were headed down. Fast. The pilot nearly threw him out of the plane. He assured us we weren't in any real danger but I think I saw a different truth in his eyes...

[a2capt]

Almost sounds like the pilot didn't give enough instruction on the use of the controls.

[That Anonymous Guy]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

This, my squadron doesn't have a plane but the next squadron over does. Can I use theirs?

[Al Sayre]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

First thing you need to realize is that you are asking someone who gives flying lessons to put food on his/her families table to give you those lessons for free.  Then you also need to realize that he/she has to carry a fairly costly liability insurance policy to protect themselves if they are giving primary flight instruction.  Ask yourself what are you doing for CAP that would make someone inclined to provide this service to you for free.  Also when other cadets find out that you are getting free lessons, the instructor is going to be inundated with requests/demands (usually from parents) that they provide free lessons to them as well.  Most instructors, don't do free cadet flight instruction for the reasons stated above.  If they do provide the instruction for free, someone will still need to pay for the aircraft usage and fuel which will run you in the neighborhood of $80/hour. 

So how do you start?  By being an outstanding cadet that an instructor will be willing to mentor and provide these services for.  Volunteer to wash the airplane on the weekends in your spare time, get ES qualified as a FLM, show up for squadron field days and work activities, etc.  Make a real contribution of your time to your squadron.  If you (not your parents) are paying for the aircraft rental by working after school & weekends to earn the money and showing him/her that you are truly motivated about learning to fly they will more likely be willing to help you. 

[Thrashed]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

This, my squadron doesn't have a plane but the next squadron over does. Can I use theirs?

CAP planes belong to the CAP, not any group or squadron. Fly any plane you want.

[That Anonymous Guy]

Also, in regards to paperwork what will I need. A flight physical and what else?

[SarDragon]

Also, in regards to paperwork what will I need. A flight physical and what else?

Ground school of some form, and passing the written exam are helpful.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Speaking as a CFI who has turned down more CAP Cadets than I have accepted as students:
*Medical:  Absolutely required prior to solo.
*Signed Notarized letter of permission from the parents, both parents even if divorced/seperated. 
*Attitude:  If you want to learn to fly because you thinks its kool, take your kool someplace else.  I want the dreamers, the students with the "fire in the belly".  I want the kid who is willing to wash the entire airplane in exchange for 1 hour of flight.  I want the motivated and dedicated.
* Grades:  Show me your report card  (I am looking for discipline).
* I want a letter of recommendation from the Cadet's Squadron Commander.

Once flying, there will be homework assignments and taskings.  miss two and the student is done.

Hard A$$?
As others have said, teaching a cadet is costing me $35.00 per hour that I am not getting from a paying student.  Not only for the flight time, but also for the lesson prep time I put in before each flight, for the pre & post flight briefings, etc.

[Thrashed]

I offered free instruction to the cadets in my squadron, IF they get the medical and written done. I even taught the ground school free. Not one cadet took the offer. We offered Orientation flights to multiple squadrons a week or so ago. Not one cadet was interested!  I don't get it. I was that kid with his nose in the fence at the airport.

[Critical AOA]

I offered free instruction to the cadets in my squadron, IF they get the medical and written done. I even taught the ground school free. Not one cadet took the offer. We offered Orientation flights to multiple squadrons a week or so ago. Not one cadet was interested!  I don't get it. I was that kid with his nose in the fence at the airport.

Makes me wonder why these kids even joined CAP.

[Critical AOA]

 
*Attitude:  If you want to learn to fly because you thinks its kool, take your kool someplace else. 

I have always thought flying is kool cool.  What is wrong with that?

[Cliff_Chambliss]

likewise.

As a cadet there were three of us that literally lived at the airport on weekends begging pilots for rides, washing airplanes in exchange for flying time etc.  Our CAP Sqdn at that time had an Aeronca L-16, a Ryan L-17, and the squadron in the next town had an L-21, all great flying machines.  Begging rides from senior members, we got O-Rides in a PT-17 Stearman and a T-6 Texan and the Cessna 170 in addition to the CAP owned aircraft. 

Rides were earned by lots of hard work washing, waxing, running errands, and plain begging.  There was flight line to go get, prop wash to borrow and so on.  There were also opportunities to really get dirty helping the mechanics perform maintenance. 

I treasure these memories and think back how lucky we were to get a useful education of sorts not found in books.  Two flights rally stand out in my memory, one was my first cadet O-Ride in a PT-17 Stearman in 1963.   First O-Ride and an introduction to Hammerhead Stalls, and a loop.  In an open cockpit airplane you will remember - that is if you keep your eyes open. 

Another flight is when I was called early on a Saturday Morning by a senior member who asked if I wanted to go from Birmingham, Alabama to Meridan, Mississippi to pick up an airplane. four of us flew over in the Ryan L-17 Navion, and then the Senior Member Pilot and I got in the Piper L-21 and came home. 

Three of the Senior member pilots from those cadet days are still active members in our squadron.  One no longer flies as PIC, but the other two are still active mission pilots and O-Ride pilots.

Cadets in todays cushioned, pampered, politically correct world are being denied the opportunity to live and discover life.  Things we did as cadets and youth would today get you expelled, medicated, incarcerated or all three.  I don't envy today's youth at all.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

 
*Attitude:  If you want to learn to fly because you thinks its kool, take your kool someplace else. 

I have always thought flying is kool cool.  What is wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with that, as long as that is not the sole motivation for wanting to fly.

as said to me by a cadet:
  "flying is kinda cool but it's not something I want to work at"