Flight Lessons through CAP

[Thrashed]

I want to learn to fly from a CFI in my squadron. So I'll talk to him tomorrow and ask if he is interested. If he says yes, then we have to rent a CAP plane and pay for the gass. And I'm all set right? But if I do do this with a CFI in my squadron and in a CAP aircraft do I have to wear my BDU?

Better make sure your squadron/group/wing don't require something: formal approval, forms, syllabus, etc. Ask the CFI, he should know. He can't charge you for teaching, but you can buy him lunch every now and then. Most CFI's make up to $3000 to teach someone how to fly, so realize that he is giving up TIME AND MONEY for you.

Around my area, we lose most CAP pilots when they get their CFI's. They love the free flying until they can get paid, then they are gone. You may need an older or retired CFI.

[coudano]

What point in your training should you be at if you would like to attend a flight academy

Flight Academies are national cadet special activities.
To attend them you must have graduated from an encampment prior to the application deadline (January before the summer NCSA cycle)
To attend an encampment, you must have earned your first stripe.

You also have to be 16 for power flight and 14 for glider flight, by the start of the activity.
That's because you can't solo prior to those ages (that's an FAA rule)


To fly a CAP airplane, you must be in a CAP uniform.
That includes for cadets, BDUs, and even Blues (though I wouldn't suggest it).  And yeah, even flight suits (meh)

Senior members can even do the golf shirt.

Some of the flight academies have laxer flight uniforms that are basically golf shirt combos.
Some wings actually have authorized shorts with polos for flight operations.

Depends on where you live.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

As a CAP Instructor Pilot I presently have 1 cadet primary student and 1 senior instrument student.  There is an advantage to using CAP assets for certificates and ratings, that being the instruction cost is zero.  However, all other costs are fairly close to the market.  Aircraft rental is close, there is no break on fuel costs, and the materials required for the ground study portion are the same.  What is the CAP student going to do for a ground school?  Other than the 2 CAP students, I an also an instructor at a flying club and there is no difference in the costs between the two (except I get paid at the club).  I don't mean to sound unkind or uncaring but between someone willing to pay for flight instruction and ground school at the aero club and a CAP person wanting the same for free, well I am very careful on who I will agree to instruct and expect drive, committment, and "fire in the belly".  Also at the club, there are club owned tapes, books, Dvd's, students can use free of charge, and also there are other students, pilots, and instructors available for questions.
CAP Flight Training can be a good deal but not always the best deal.  Look around and balance the entire program.

[KirkF22]

How long would you expect it to take to get my Pilots license through a CAP CFI?

[MajorM]

That's hard to answer... Depends on your finances, your schedule, the CFI's schedule, aircraft scheduling, etc...  I've seen it done in just a few months time and I've seen it take almost a year.  But in the cases where it's taken longer it's almost always been because of the cadet's finances, schedule, or both.

[KirkF22]

Well finance isn't a problem for me. And I have an open schedule Tuesday through Saturday.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

How long will it take?  I am not saying this as a put down, but that is like asking what color is blue.  Points to consider:
1.  How often will the lessons take place.
2.  How prepared for each lesson is the student, the CFI, the airplane.
3.  What is the "fire in the belly" drive of the student (motivation).
4.  What and how much will the weather cooperate?

The FAA requires a mimumum of 40 hours of flight training but the overall national average is closer to 65-70 hours.  That being said, I have had students all over the graph.  1 student starting with 0 hours, and we flew an average of twice per week.  He would call me at least once every other day with a question he had about something in the ground study materials.  The fire in his belly was strong, and he was actually ready fro his Private Pilot Check Ride in 38 hours, and passed. 
On the other hand, I had a student that started 2 weeks after her 16th birthday.  She never opened a book, never studied anything, never thought about anything flight related from one lesson to the next.  Many conversations between she and her mother and it was always the same "her father wants her to be a pilot and we can't tell him no".  So, they wasted several thousand dollars for no good reason.  The fire in her belly was weak.
Two examples at opposite ends of the spectrum but I use them to point out there is no one set answer.
OK,
assume the fire in your belly is strong.
assume there is always going to be an airplane available.
assume there will be no weather problems.
assume you are going to find the ground study program interesting and understandable.
Now what happens if you and the instructor get along like gasoline and matches? 
    Not all instructors are for all students and not all students are for all instructors.  If you need to change instructors (and you have every right to do so if you are not happy) is there another instructor available?  Just because he is a good guy around the squadron does not imply he is a good instructor.

Check out the instructor.  There are flight instructors and there are pilots who have CFI ratings and they are not the same.  Unfortunately the CFI is the entry level position for a young man/woman looking for an aviation career and there are way too many who view the CFI as a necessary stepping stone to build hours to get a real flying job.  These are to be avoided as few will have your needs and interests at heart.
Again, look carefully at the entire program and think about all options.  In the long run it's you money and even if everythin goes perfect it's going to be expensive.  It only gets more expensive when things are less than perfect.

[JeffDG]

One other note, I would suggest scheduling an appointment with an AME and getting your 3rd Class Medical out of the way.  If there's something in there that is disqualifying (you'd be surprised what can ground you), better to find that out before you spend a bunch of money and then can't solo.

You can find AMEs in your area:
http://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Yes a 3d class medical certificate will be required to solo.  But then in most cases if a person is healthy enough to get a drivers license they can get a 3d cl medical.  There are some exceptions and in some cases there may be hoops to jump thru that may seem discouraging but these generally do not concern too many CAP Cadets.  If there is any doubt, address these with the CFI.  The CFI should be able to help the student find the FAA Medical Guidelines for the student to get a "dummy" medical exam by their family doctor before anything goes to the FAA.
Waivers are possible for many conditions, and there are active pilots with only one eye, arm, leg, paraplegic pilots, deaf pilots, and one young woman with no arms at all (she uses her feet).  There are no blind pilots I know of.
Unfortunately a sign of our times is drug and alcohol use, and a current history here can be an obstacle towards getting a medical certificate.   
Again, this is an area that should be discussed one on one with the instructor.

[JeffDG]

Yes a 3d class medical certificate will be required to solo.  But then in most cases if a person is healthy enough to get a drivers license they can get a 3d cl medical.  There are some exceptions and in some cases there may be hoops to jump thru that may seem discouraging but these generally do not concern too many CAP Cadets.  If there is any doubt, address these with the CFI.  The CFI should be able to help the student find the FAA Medical Guidelines for the student to get a "dummy" medical exam by their family doctor before anything goes to the FAA.
Waivers are possible for many conditions, and there are active pilots with only one eye, arm, leg, paraplegic pilots, deaf pilots, and one young woman with no arms at all (she uses her feet).  There are no blind pilots I know of.
Unfortunately a sign of our times is drug and alcohol use, and a current history here can be an obstacle towards getting a medical certificate.   
Again, this is an area that should be discussed one on one with the instructor.

Concur.

There are some issues, one common one is ADHD, which both the diagnosis of and the medication for, are disqualifying conditions from a 3rd Class perspective.

[KirkF22]

Well I have ADD, not Hyper form of ADHD. And I was medicated but i got off the medication 2 years ago. I believe this wouldnt disqualift my because it doesn't from applying to the USAFA. USAFA states no medication may be used after 16th birthday.

[JeffDG]

Well I have ADD, not Hyper form of ADHD. And I was medicated but i got off the medication 2 years ago. I believe this wouldnt disqualift my because it doesn't from applying to the USAFA. USAFA states no medication may be used after 16th birthday.

ADD is considered, by the FAA, as a lifelong condition.  You should consult with a qualified AME before spending a bunch on flight training, because there's a significant chance that you may not qualify for a 3rd Class Medical.

See:  http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/media/guide.pdf
Page 129: 

All applicants with any of the following conditions must be denied or deferred:
Attention Deficit Disorder

Just to be clear, you MAY be able to overcome an ADD diagnosis and be certified, however, you need to work with the appropriate medical professionals to get a Special Issuance medial.  And let me assure you, you don't want to try and do this when you're ready to solo, because it will takes weeks if not months to process through the FAA's CAMI (Civil Aviation Medical Institute in Oklahoma City) division.  I think that instructors who put students through a lot of hours before sending them for a medical do a disservice to those students who have conditions that are disqualifying or at the least complicating. 

I remember being stuck, ready to solo, for about 3 months while I waited for my migraine SI, and if that had been declined, my flight training would have come to a screeching halt right there.

[Eclipse]

Wow - it would have never occurred to me not to get the medical before even starting...

[JeffDG]

Wow - it would have never occurred to me not to get the medical before even starting...

Excellent.

You don't "need" a medical until it's time to solo...your medical certificate has you "student pilot" certificate on the back of it, and that's what your CFI signs to permit you to solo (you get a logbook endorsement too), but you can fly with a CFI forever without ever taking a medical!

[a2capt]

...and I've known of at least a couple people that bought an airplane and just lived on a solo endorsement, happy to fly between this and that airport alone for years, by just getting that student certificate renewed with a 3rd class afterwards. Now with Sport Pilot, if they bought the right ancient aircraft they don't even need to do that, just keep getting solo sign offs. Though no one I've known within the age of the medical lasting longer than the student certificate so it's a new medical / student certificate issued at the same time.

[BigShu]

That's a strange approach. Are you talking about people who have been denied a 3rd class medical? If you've never been denied, you can get a sport pilot license with a driver's license, right? With the sport pilot rating, you get to take a passenger!

[Thrashed]

I know a guy without a medical (can't pass) and he still flys. He doesn't care.

[Critical AOA]

Regarding Sport Pilot.

1.  You do not have to buy an ancient aircraft.  There are a lot of new sport aircraft being built.

2.  You do not need a medical for Sport Pilot.  However if you have ever been denied a medical then you don't qualify.  So if you think you might ever be denied a medical, don't try to get one, just go Sport Pilot.  It is a silly rule but it is the way it is.

3. If you already have a Private Pilot and believe you might not pass your next medical, it is probably best to switch to a sport aircraft rather than continuing to fly normal aircraft without a medical.  Legal implications could be severe if caught by FAA during a ramp check, post-accident / incident, etc.

4.  As a Sport pilot you can carry one passenger.  This is much better than just being a solo "student".  Why someone would never want to progress beyond the solo phase and fly for years is beyond me.  You are very limited as to where you can go and what you can do.  Passing the written and checkride is not that difficult either for Sport or Private.

5. For a cadet who might be worried about passing a medical, doing some initial training in a CAP 172 and then switching to a Sport aircraft for more training, solo and checkride might be an option.

[Eclipse]

Or, and I know this is crazy...how about if you're not medically fit to fly, you don't fly?

A sport pilot passenger isn't going to be "less dead" when you have a grabber or make a poor decision just because you found a loophole in the
regs.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

I don't think anyone is talking about loopholes.  Even with a valid medical of any class we are all required to "self certify" our fitness before every flight. 

There are some conditions the FAA rules as disqualifying that the medical world as a whole has left behind.  It was not too long ago that Lasik, RK, all those other vision correcting "operations" were dis-allowed by the FAA.  Also, any cardiac procedure was grounding - and to many still is.  (I currently have a student that had a heart attack in 2003 and still has to do extensive tests and paperwork every year for a 3d Class.  Oh, he also maxes out the Army PT Test every 6 months including the run).
Organ transplants were grounding, as was HIV.

This year I found out that bleeding ulcers are a problem and if you are hospitalized and given blood products, then you are grounded for at least two years no questions asked.

Sometimes the FAA Aeromedical folks change but change is slow. 

So where are we now?  One thing that has not changed is we are all just one failed medical away from being glider pilots, but now we are also one skipped medical away from Light Sport.