Flight Lessons through CAP

[KirkF22]

I had my first O ride yesterday and had the time of my life. We did about 10 parabolas. I've always wanted to be a pilot and take lessons, and my parents are finally going to let me. We are wondering if I should take lessons through CAP, preferably the Pilot I flew with yesterday, and he's a flight instructor. Or if I should take them from an actuall school. I understand that through CAP it is cheaper but it will take longer to get license. I'm in no rush, I'm a sophomore right now and would like to be soloing by my senior year. So what do you guys think I should do?

[MajorM]

Depends on your desired speed, but I've found that instruction through CAP tends to be more thorough and involved, though that also depends on your CFI.  Take the savings and use it to not "ram" through a course but learn all you can. 

Also, and this can depend a lot too, but generally the quality of the aircraft are better in CAP. 

Lastly, your squadron certainly can't hurt from having hours on their airplane.  We have six cadets in our flight training program and those six generate an important percentage of our annual usage requirements.

[Eclipse]

If you're going through CAP, your best bet will be one of the flight academies.

[KirkF22]

If I take lessons through CAP. Am I in my BDU for all my lessons or civilian clothes? And for lessons do I sit in lef or right seat?

[Garibaldi]

If I take lessons through CAP. Am I in my BDU for all my lessons or civilian clothes? And for lessons do I sit in lef or right seat?

If you take lessons through CAP flight academies you will be in whatever uniform they specify for that school.

[Eclipse]

If I take lessons through CAP. Am I in my BDU for all my lessons or civilian clothes? And for lessons do I sit in lef or right seat?

If you take lessons through CAP flight academies you will be in whatever uniform they specify for that school.

Yep - some schools have an NHQ-approved custom uniform, which is usually equivalent to PT gear or similar.

[KirkF22]

But what about if I just take them through a CAP senior that is a qualified flight instructor?

[coudano]

If you're going through CAP, your best bet will be one of the flight academies.

Uh cap flight academies are good for that first 10 hours up to solo or just before solo.
Two major problems...

#1  If your flight instructor at flight academy isn't your flight instructor that you're going to have back at home, you may have to re-do a lot of the stuff you did at flight academy anyway, so it's not necessarily 'wasted' effort, but it can certainly be duplicate effort.

#2.  If you want to start flight instruction next week, the next flight academies aren't for about 9 months from now...  IF you DO start your flight training next week, by the time the next flight academy gets here, you will probably be WELL beyond the intended skill level of that powered flight academy.

Oh and here's a free #3 for you...  A good bit of the national cadet special activity fee goes into things like food, and rooms, and some into transportation.  And some into other administrative and operations overhead.  It's still a pretty good value, but the same $1000 directly into the gas tank will take you (a lot) further than 10 hours in your logbook...


That is not all said to poo on PFA, you're going to get a cadet special activity experience out of PFA that you aren't going to get by just flying with your CFI down at the local airport.  But there are worthwhile things to consider surrounding it, particularly depending on your long term goals.

If you have a CAP plane, and a qualified CAP member CFI, who is willing to teach you...
CAP is a GREAT way to learn to fly, and you aren't going to be able to beat the price anywhere else.
If those stars are aligned for you, and you have the money, my advice is to do what I didn't do, when I was your age, and go for it!!!

[Garibaldi]

But what about if I just take them through a CAP senior that is a qualified flight instructor?

CAP only sponsors flight training at flight academies. If you set up a series of lessons with a senior member who just happens to be a CFI, then you will NOT wear a CAP uniform nor will you be in a CAP aircraft. Using a CAP aircraft for flight lessons outside an approved flight academy is a BIG no-no. And I mean big. Bigger than the biggest thing you can think of.

[Thrashed]

If I take lessons through CAP. Am I in my BDU for all my lessons or civilian clothes? And for lessons do I sit in lef or right seat?

No civilian clothes allowed per regs. Any CAP uniform will do. You sit in the left seat for instruction. Right seat for O Flights (which are not "instruction").

[Thrashed]

But what about if I just take them through a CAP senior that is a qualified flight instructor?

CAP only sponsors flight training at flight academies. If you set up a series of lessons with a senior member who just happens to be a CFI, then you will NOT wear a CAP uniform nor will you be in a CAP aircraft. Using a CAP aircraft for flight lessons outside an approved flight academy is a BIG no-no. And I mean big. Bigger than the biggest thing you can think of.

Huh? Maybe in your wing. In my wing any cadet can apply to take lessons in a CAP aircraft with a CAP instructor. I do it (instruct), so I know.

[Garibaldi]

But what about if I just take them through a CAP senior that is a qualified flight instructor?

CAP only sponsors flight training at flight academies. If you set up a series of lessons with a senior member who just happens to be a CFI, then you will NOT wear a CAP uniform nor will you be in a CAP aircraft. Using a CAP aircraft for flight lessons outside an approved flight academy is a BIG no-no. And I mean big. Bigger than the biggest thing you can think of.

Huh? Maybe in your wing. In my wing any cadet can apply to take lessons in a CAP aircraft with a CAP instructor. I do it (instruct), so I know.

The way I've always believed it to be was that CAP does not authorize private pilot lessons outside national flight academy nor can one use a CAP asset to train pilots. I will check the regs but this is the way I've always believed things to be, and I've been in 3 wings. We have a senior who is a trainee pilot and our CC, who is also a CFI-I has also told her she can't pursue private pilot training through CAP.

*later*

OK. Color me wrong as wrong can be. CAPR 60-1 Chapter 2-8 says quite plainly what I've been wrong about. Teach me to open my mouth again...

[Eclipse]

If you're going through CAP, your best bet will be one of the flight academies.

Uh cap flight academies are good for that first 10 hours up to solo or just before solo.
Two major problems...

#1  If your flight instructor at flight academy isn't your flight instructor that you're going to have back at home, you may have to re-do a lot of the stuff you did at flight academy anyway, so it's not necessarily 'wasted' effort, but it can certainly be duplicate effort.

#2.  If you want to start flight instruction next week, the next flight academies aren't for about 9 months from now...  IF you DO start your flight training next week, by the time the next flight academy gets here, you will probably be WELL beyond the intended skill level of that powered flight academy.

Oh and here's a free #3 for you...  A good bit of the national cadet special activity fee goes into things like food, and rooms, and some into transportation.  And some into other administrative and operations overhead.  It's still a pretty good value, but the same $1000 directly into the gas tank will take you (a lot) further than 10 hours in your logbook...


That is not all said to poo on PFA, you're going to get a cadet special activity experience out of PFA that you aren't going to get by just flying with your CFI down at the local airport.  But there are worthwhile things to consider surrounding it, particularly depending on your long term goals.

If you have a CAP plane, and a qualified CAP member CFI, who is willing to teach you...
CAP is a GREAT way to learn to fly, and you aren't going to be able to beat the price anywhere else.
If those stars are aligned for you, and you have the money, my advice is to do what I didn't do, when I was your age, and go for it!!!

You have salient points, but that CAP plane isn't free either - a 172 is going to cost you about $85 an hour wet - so your $1000
just went up in 12 hours of dino smoke, and if you're depending on a CAP CFI, it's probably going to be over an extended / prolonged period of time - the worst way to learn to fly. 

Then there's ground school - where's that coming from?  One year we had a CFI who offered free ground instruction to
the whole unit - that's a great off-night AE thing to make happen, but those are few, if ever, activities.

[MajorM]

Flight academies (aka Solo Academy) are fine if you want to figure out if your private pilot license is something you want to pursue.  But they won't get you even close to your ticket.

The speed of training largely depends on the CFI.  Find yourself a great, retired CFI who is a CAP member and you can knock your private license out in a relatively short time.

Obviously every unit is different.  We happen to have five CFIs who volunteer their time.  In our case it's almost always money that holds up the training, not the CFI.

[coudano]

We have a senior who is a trainee pilot and our CC, who is also a CFI-I has also told her she can't pursue private pilot training through CAP.

Well you are right, for senior members...
Senior members can't take instruction in powered airplanes in CAP if that instruction is toward a primary certificate.

Cadets, on the other hand, are good to go.


(senior members can take primary instruction in CAP gliders, with CAP CFI's, however)


Also, Eclipse, the $ per Hour on a CAP airplane (wet cost) is cheaper than you will get for a similar airplane at just about any FBO.  Infact it's cheaper than quite a few inferior planes at FBO's.  There are other savings also added there that CAP provides that are not matched by private for hire instruction.  CAP's price tag can't be beat.

Of course you have a lot of hastle to go with it too, like sharing.  Like taking second priority to missions.  Like using CAP's scheduling system, getting a flight release, post flight paperwork, and so on;   good practices all around, but certainly a lot more headache than other options.

[Eclipse]

Also, Eclipse, the $ per Hour on a CAP airplane (wet cost) is cheaper than you will get for a similar airplane at just about any FBO.  Infact it's cheaper than quite a few inferior planes at FBO's.  There are other savings also added there that CAP provides that are not matched by private for hire instruction.  CAP's price tag can't be beat.

No argument there - I just wanted to point out our aircraft have a cost as well.  I've had more than one cadet come
up with a Grande Scheme^® to learn to fly in a CAP plane - even lined up a CFI, then was "surprised" to find that gas costs money. 

If you can get the stars to align on a CAP CFI and plane, good on 'ye, but as you say, there will be a hassle factor that can't be discounted.

[Thrashed]

IF you can get a CAP plane on a regular basis; IF you can get a CAP CFI to teach you for free on a regular basis; and IF you don't have major delays in funds, weather, and maintenance: you can learn to fly for about 1/2 the price of a local flight school. Maybe. I'd recommend the local flight school anyway. Find a cheap C150 with a good instructor and go at it. Get a job to help pay for it. I did my private certificate while in high school while washing dishes at night.

My wing requires squadron and "wing approval" for cadets training and you must use an approved flight syllabus from Jepp or Cessna.

See the following:

1. In accordance with policies concerning flight training, I am requesting approval to begin
Powered / Glider Flight training.
(Circle One)
2. The primary flight instructor will be ___________________________________.
(Name and Grade of Instructor)
3. Any change in Primary flight instructor requires immediate notification from the squadron
commander and approval by the wing Stand/Eval officer.
4. The flight instruction program will follow Wing APPROVED course
syllabus. The syllabus that will be utilized is Jeppesen/Cessna.
(Circle One)
5. I understand that stage checks, according to the syllabus's, will be conducted by a check
pilot other than the instructor pilot unless approved by the Wing Stand/Eval officer in writing.
6. All lessons will be documented in accordance with the appropriate course syllabus.
7. Attached find a letter of recommendation

[KirkF22]

I want to learn to fly from a CFI in my squadron. So I'll talk to him tomorrow and ask if he is interested. If he says yes, then we have to rent a CAP plane and pay for the gass. And I'm all set right? But if I do do this with a CFI in my squadron and in a CAP aircraft do I have to wear my BDU?

[JeffDG]

Unless I'm badly mistaken, you must be in some form of acceptable CAP uniform anytime you're in a plane.

Now the BDU, and the boots that go with it, may not be the best choice to develop a good feel for the rudder pedals...

[C/2d Lt]

What point in your training should you be at if you would like to attend a flight academy

[Thrashed]

I want to learn to fly from a CFI in my squadron. So I'll talk to him tomorrow and ask if he is interested. If he says yes, then we have to rent a CAP plane and pay for the gass. And I'm all set right? But if I do do this with a CFI in my squadron and in a CAP aircraft do I have to wear my BDU?

Better make sure your squadron/group/wing don't require something: formal approval, forms, syllabus, etc. Ask the CFI, he should know. He can't charge you for teaching, but you can buy him lunch every now and then. Most CFI's make up to $3000 to teach someone how to fly, so realize that he is giving up TIME AND MONEY for you.

Around my area, we lose most CAP pilots when they get their CFI's. They love the free flying until they can get paid, then they are gone. You may need an older or retired CFI.

[coudano]

What point in your training should you be at if you would like to attend a flight academy

Flight Academies are national cadet special activities.
To attend them you must have graduated from an encampment prior to the application deadline (January before the summer NCSA cycle)
To attend an encampment, you must have earned your first stripe.

You also have to be 16 for power flight and 14 for glider flight, by the start of the activity.
That's because you can't solo prior to those ages (that's an FAA rule)


To fly a CAP airplane, you must be in a CAP uniform.
That includes for cadets, BDUs, and even Blues (though I wouldn't suggest it).  And yeah, even flight suits (meh)

Senior members can even do the golf shirt.

Some of the flight academies have laxer flight uniforms that are basically golf shirt combos.
Some wings actually have authorized shorts with polos for flight operations.

Depends on where you live.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

As a CAP Instructor Pilot I presently have 1 cadet primary student and 1 senior instrument student.  There is an advantage to using CAP assets for certificates and ratings, that being the instruction cost is zero.  However, all other costs are fairly close to the market.  Aircraft rental is close, there is no break on fuel costs, and the materials required for the ground study portion are the same.  What is the CAP student going to do for a ground school?  Other than the 2 CAP students, I an also an instructor at a flying club and there is no difference in the costs between the two (except I get paid at the club).  I don't mean to sound unkind or uncaring but between someone willing to pay for flight instruction and ground school at the aero club and a CAP person wanting the same for free, well I am very careful on who I will agree to instruct and expect drive, committment, and "fire in the belly".  Also at the club, there are club owned tapes, books, Dvd's, students can use free of charge, and also there are other students, pilots, and instructors available for questions.
CAP Flight Training can be a good deal but not always the best deal.  Look around and balance the entire program.

[KirkF22]

How long would you expect it to take to get my Pilots license through a CAP CFI?

[MajorM]

That's hard to answer... Depends on your finances, your schedule, the CFI's schedule, aircraft scheduling, etc...  I've seen it done in just a few months time and I've seen it take almost a year.  But in the cases where it's taken longer it's almost always been because of the cadet's finances, schedule, or both.

[KirkF22]

Well finance isn't a problem for me. And I have an open schedule Tuesday through Saturday.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

How long will it take?  I am not saying this as a put down, but that is like asking what color is blue.  Points to consider:
1.  How often will the lessons take place.
2.  How prepared for each lesson is the student, the CFI, the airplane.
3.  What is the "fire in the belly" drive of the student (motivation).
4.  What and how much will the weather cooperate?

The FAA requires a mimumum of 40 hours of flight training but the overall national average is closer to 65-70 hours.  That being said, I have had students all over the graph.  1 student starting with 0 hours, and we flew an average of twice per week.  He would call me at least once every other day with a question he had about something in the ground study materials.  The fire in his belly was strong, and he was actually ready fro his Private Pilot Check Ride in 38 hours, and passed. 
On the other hand, I had a student that started 2 weeks after her 16th birthday.  She never opened a book, never studied anything, never thought about anything flight related from one lesson to the next.  Many conversations between she and her mother and it was always the same "her father wants her to be a pilot and we can't tell him no".  So, they wasted several thousand dollars for no good reason.  The fire in her belly was weak.
Two examples at opposite ends of the spectrum but I use them to point out there is no one set answer.
OK,
assume the fire in your belly is strong.
assume there is always going to be an airplane available.
assume there will be no weather problems.
assume you are going to find the ground study program interesting and understandable.
Now what happens if you and the instructor get along like gasoline and matches? 
    Not all instructors are for all students and not all students are for all instructors.  If you need to change instructors (and you have every right to do so if you are not happy) is there another instructor available?  Just because he is a good guy around the squadron does not imply he is a good instructor.

Check out the instructor.  There are flight instructors and there are pilots who have CFI ratings and they are not the same.  Unfortunately the CFI is the entry level position for a young man/woman looking for an aviation career and there are way too many who view the CFI as a necessary stepping stone to build hours to get a real flying job.  These are to be avoided as few will have your needs and interests at heart.
Again, look carefully at the entire program and think about all options.  In the long run it's you money and even if everythin goes perfect it's going to be expensive.  It only gets more expensive when things are less than perfect.

[JeffDG]

One other note, I would suggest scheduling an appointment with an AME and getting your 3rd Class Medical out of the way.  If there's something in there that is disqualifying (you'd be surprised what can ground you), better to find that out before you spend a bunch of money and then can't solo.

You can find AMEs in your area:
http://www.faa.gov/pilots/amelocator/

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Yes a 3d class medical certificate will be required to solo.  But then in most cases if a person is healthy enough to get a drivers license they can get a 3d cl medical.  There are some exceptions and in some cases there may be hoops to jump thru that may seem discouraging but these generally do not concern too many CAP Cadets.  If there is any doubt, address these with the CFI.  The CFI should be able to help the student find the FAA Medical Guidelines for the student to get a "dummy" medical exam by their family doctor before anything goes to the FAA.
Waivers are possible for many conditions, and there are active pilots with only one eye, arm, leg, paraplegic pilots, deaf pilots, and one young woman with no arms at all (she uses her feet).  There are no blind pilots I know of.
Unfortunately a sign of our times is drug and alcohol use, and a current history here can be an obstacle towards getting a medical certificate.   
Again, this is an area that should be discussed one on one with the instructor.

[JeffDG]

Yes a 3d class medical certificate will be required to solo.  But then in most cases if a person is healthy enough to get a drivers license they can get a 3d cl medical.  There are some exceptions and in some cases there may be hoops to jump thru that may seem discouraging but these generally do not concern too many CAP Cadets.  If there is any doubt, address these with the CFI.  The CFI should be able to help the student find the FAA Medical Guidelines for the student to get a "dummy" medical exam by their family doctor before anything goes to the FAA.
Waivers are possible for many conditions, and there are active pilots with only one eye, arm, leg, paraplegic pilots, deaf pilots, and one young woman with no arms at all (she uses her feet).  There are no blind pilots I know of.
Unfortunately a sign of our times is drug and alcohol use, and a current history here can be an obstacle towards getting a medical certificate.   
Again, this is an area that should be discussed one on one with the instructor.

Concur.

There are some issues, one common one is ADHD, which both the diagnosis of and the medication for, are disqualifying conditions from a 3rd Class perspective.

[KirkF22]

Well I have ADD, not Hyper form of ADHD. And I was medicated but i got off the medication 2 years ago. I believe this wouldnt disqualift my because it doesn't from applying to the USAFA. USAFA states no medication may be used after 16th birthday.

[JeffDG]

Well I have ADD, not Hyper form of ADHD. And I was medicated but i got off the medication 2 years ago. I believe this wouldnt disqualift my because it doesn't from applying to the USAFA. USAFA states no medication may be used after 16th birthday.

ADD is considered, by the FAA, as a lifelong condition.  You should consult with a qualified AME before spending a bunch on flight training, because there's a significant chance that you may not qualify for a 3rd Class Medical.

See:  http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/avs/offices/aam/ame/guide/media/guide.pdf
Page 129: 

All applicants with any of the following conditions must be denied or deferred:
Attention Deficit Disorder

Just to be clear, you MAY be able to overcome an ADD diagnosis and be certified, however, you need to work with the appropriate medical professionals to get a Special Issuance medial.  And let me assure you, you don't want to try and do this when you're ready to solo, because it will takes weeks if not months to process through the FAA's CAMI (Civil Aviation Medical Institute in Oklahoma City) division.  I think that instructors who put students through a lot of hours before sending them for a medical do a disservice to those students who have conditions that are disqualifying or at the least complicating. 

I remember being stuck, ready to solo, for about 3 months while I waited for my migraine SI, and if that had been declined, my flight training would have come to a screeching halt right there.

[Eclipse]

Wow - it would have never occurred to me not to get the medical before even starting...

[JeffDG]

Wow - it would have never occurred to me not to get the medical before even starting...

Excellent.

You don't "need" a medical until it's time to solo...your medical certificate has you "student pilot" certificate on the back of it, and that's what your CFI signs to permit you to solo (you get a logbook endorsement too), but you can fly with a CFI forever without ever taking a medical!

[a2capt]

...and I've known of at least a couple people that bought an airplane and just lived on a solo endorsement, happy to fly between this and that airport alone for years, by just getting that student certificate renewed with a 3rd class afterwards. Now with Sport Pilot, if they bought the right ancient aircraft they don't even need to do that, just keep getting solo sign offs. Though no one I've known within the age of the medical lasting longer than the student certificate so it's a new medical / student certificate issued at the same time.

[BigShu]

That's a strange approach. Are you talking about people who have been denied a 3rd class medical? If you've never been denied, you can get a sport pilot license with a driver's license, right? With the sport pilot rating, you get to take a passenger!

[Thrashed]

I know a guy without a medical (can't pass) and he still flys. He doesn't care.

[Critical AOA]

Regarding Sport Pilot.

1.  You do not have to buy an ancient aircraft.  There are a lot of new sport aircraft being built.

2.  You do not need a medical for Sport Pilot.  However if you have ever been denied a medical then you don't qualify.  So if you think you might ever be denied a medical, don't try to get one, just go Sport Pilot.  It is a silly rule but it is the way it is.

3. If you already have a Private Pilot and believe you might not pass your next medical, it is probably best to switch to a sport aircraft rather than continuing to fly normal aircraft without a medical.  Legal implications could be severe if caught by FAA during a ramp check, post-accident / incident, etc.

4.  As a Sport pilot you can carry one passenger.  This is much better than just being a solo "student".  Why someone would never want to progress beyond the solo phase and fly for years is beyond me.  You are very limited as to where you can go and what you can do.  Passing the written and checkride is not that difficult either for Sport or Private.

5. For a cadet who might be worried about passing a medical, doing some initial training in a CAP 172 and then switching to a Sport aircraft for more training, solo and checkride might be an option.

[Eclipse]

Or, and I know this is crazy...how about if you're not medically fit to fly, you don't fly?

A sport pilot passenger isn't going to be "less dead" when you have a grabber or make a poor decision just because you found a loophole in the
regs.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

I don't think anyone is talking about loopholes.  Even with a valid medical of any class we are all required to "self certify" our fitness before every flight. 

There are some conditions the FAA rules as disqualifying that the medical world as a whole has left behind.  It was not too long ago that Lasik, RK, all those other vision correcting "operations" were dis-allowed by the FAA.  Also, any cardiac procedure was grounding - and to many still is.  (I currently have a student that had a heart attack in 2003 and still has to do extensive tests and paperwork every year for a 3d Class.  Oh, he also maxes out the Army PT Test every 6 months including the run).
Organ transplants were grounding, as was HIV.

This year I found out that bleeding ulcers are a problem and if you are hospitalized and given blood products, then you are grounded for at least two years no questions asked.

Sometimes the FAA Aeromedical folks change but change is slow. 

So where are we now?  One thing that has not changed is we are all just one failed medical away from being glider pilots, but now we are also one skipped medical away from Light Sport.

[Critical AOA]

 :clap:  Well put Cliff.  Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

[Eclipse]

:clap:  Well put Cliff. Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

Actually, that's exactly what that means.

[tsrup]

:clap:  Well put Cliff. Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

Actually, that's exactly what that means.

The sport pilot rating is an extremely restrictive rating that operates under the premise that if you are medically able and fit to operate an automobile, then you (with proper training and rating) are able to operate under a sport pilot ticket.

We also recently had a cadet who failed a medical go to Flight academy this summer.  He was medically able to fly, however his ticket restricted him to No-Solo. 

Unfit to fly=No medical
but
No Medical =/= unfit to fly.

[Critical AOA]

:clap:  Well put Cliff. Not passing a FAA medical is not synonymous with "not medically fit to fly".  The FAA while maybe all powerful when it comes to aviation is far from being all knowing or wise.

Actually, that's exactly what that means.

Nope.

Not passing a FAA medical only means that the AME using his authority granted by the FAA doesn't want you to fly.

Sometimes this is due to his erring on the side of caution in good faith.  Other times it is due to his lack of understanding of the flight environment (most are not pilots) and what truly would make a person unsafe as a pilot.

Then of course, they are operating under flawed regulations and the FAA's definitions of what might be medical condition that could possibly under worst case scenarios make one unfit to fly.  The FAA is full of pessimists and control freaks. 

Those of us who have lived and breathed aviation for a very long time understand the nature of this beast.   

[denverpilot]

All AMEs are not made equal, either.

There are Docs who are AMEs who barely know the regs and do NOT know what OKC is looking for when issuing special issuances, and there are Docs that not only specialize as AMEs for a living, but are also asked to attend special courses at FAA for Advanced AME activities, such as HIMS.

(The only FAA authorized program for folks with addictions, just as one example of advanced things not all AMEs get to participate in. There are just over 100 HIMS certified AMEs while there are thousands of AMEs overall.)

Guess which AMEs are deeply understanding of FAA's systems and requirements, and which maybe aren't?

Some AMEs are just Docs who've added "Aeromedical" to their list of other things like truck driver DOT physicals and "call to pee" drug programs, they're often not aviation specialists.

Many aren't pilots either. They have no idea what you are going through.

If you believe you may have a difficult medical, I highly recommend talking to THIS AME ahead of time:

http://home.comcast.net/~bbchien/site/

Call Bruce and ask him. Pay him for a consultation. Ask him which AME in your area he recommends. If he says he wants to handle your case personally, pony up the bucks and fly to Illinois. 

A good Aviation specialist AME is worth their weight in gold. Sometimes the "problems" people run into with "the FAA" are really just a clueless AME submitting paperwork out of order or with the wrong wording for FAA's requirements.

The ADD is a tough one. Over-prescription of drugs to kids for over-diagnosed "ADD" is a significant problem according to Dr. Chien. FAA needs not only to know the specifics of the diagnosis (often that happened decades ago for older adult pilots who were given Ritalin as kids) and a whole bunch of other info.

Parents not asking if the diagnosis is based in something objective and/or who just give in and put the kids on Ritalin are seriously affecting the kids future lives as adults when the hit the FAA Aeromedical process.

[jtimpano]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

[LTCTerry]

I had my first O ride yesterday and had the time of my life. We did about 10 parabolas...

According to the Cadet Orientation Flight Pamphlet, "Pilots will not perform extreme maneuvers, aerobatics, spins or emergency procedures." A parabola is not a figure required for either a private pilot or a commercial pilot. If the flight exceeded a pitch angle of +/-30 degrees then it was an aerobatic flight - sadly prohibited by CAP regs - and you should have been wearing a parachute. Maybe you stayed within +/-29 degrees and it's OK...

The syllabus for the first powered orientation flight says, "Point out the airplane's attitude in relation to the horizon and different airspeeds" so I suppose it would be OK as long as your O- flight pilot was saying, "See how we accelerate as the nose goes well below the horizon? Feel the G's as I pitch up aggressively beyond the normal pitch attitude for practice stalls? Hear the stall warning indicator as our speed decays? It's OK; we're in zero-G flight now and can't stall. Speed coming back up...

There's nothing in the O-flight booklet that permits or encourages something like this. My example above is a tongue-in-cheek comment and not  an attempt at fitting your pilot's actions into some "spirit" of the syllabus.

I'll grant you that it was fun, but in my opinion it should not have happened.

Cheers

TP

[Garibaldi]

I had my first O ride yesterday and had the time of my life. We did about 10 parabolas...

According to the Cadet Orientation Flight Pamphlet, "Pilots will not perform extreme maneuvers, aerobatics, spins or emergency procedures." A parabola is not a figure required for either a private pilot or a commercial pilot. If the flight exceeded a pitch angle of +/-30 degrees then it was an aerobatic flight - sadly prohibited by CAP regs - and you should have been wearing a parachute. Maybe you stayed within +/-29 degrees and it's OK...

The syllabus for the first powered orientation flight says, "Point out the airplane's attitude in relation to the horizon and different airspeeds" so I suppose it would be OK as long as your O- flight pilot was saying, "See how we accelerate as the nose goes well below the horizon? Feel the G's as I pitch up aggressively beyond the normal pitch attitude for practice stalls? Hear the stall warning indicator as our speed decays? It's OK; we're in zero-G flight now and can't stall. Speed coming back up...

There's nothing in the O-flight booklet that permits or encourages something like this. My example above is a tongue-in-cheek comment and not  an attempt at fitting your pilot's actions into some "spirit" of the syllabus.

I'll grant you that it was fun, but in my opinion it should not have happened.

Cheers

TP

One of my O-flights, the pilot allowed each of us a minute or so on the "stick". I almost died that day when one cadet pushed the thing to the firewall then yanked it back when he realized we were headed down. Fast. The pilot nearly threw him out of the plane. He assured us we weren't in any real danger but I think I saw a different truth in his eyes...

[a2capt]

Almost sounds like the pilot didn't give enough instruction on the use of the controls.

[That Anonymous Guy]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

This, my squadron doesn't have a plane but the next squadron over does. Can I use theirs?

[Al Sayre]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

First thing you need to realize is that you are asking someone who gives flying lessons to put food on his/her families table to give you those lessons for free.  Then you also need to realize that he/she has to carry a fairly costly liability insurance policy to protect themselves if they are giving primary flight instruction.  Ask yourself what are you doing for CAP that would make someone inclined to provide this service to you for free.  Also when other cadets find out that you are getting free lessons, the instructor is going to be inundated with requests/demands (usually from parents) that they provide free lessons to them as well.  Most instructors, don't do free cadet flight instruction for the reasons stated above.  If they do provide the instruction for free, someone will still need to pay for the aircraft usage and fuel which will run you in the neighborhood of $80/hour. 

So how do you start?  By being an outstanding cadet that an instructor will be willing to mentor and provide these services for.  Volunteer to wash the airplane on the weekends in your spare time, get ES qualified as a FLM, show up for squadron field days and work activities, etc.  Make a real contribution of your time to your squadron.  If you (not your parents) are paying for the aircraft rental by working after school & weekends to earn the money and showing him/her that you are truly motivated about learning to fly they will more likely be willing to help you. 

[Thrashed]

i am lookin into getting flight lessons as soon as possible and i would like to do it through CAP. How do i start and go about it? ive been looking for an instructor and have been haveing a lot of trouble.

This, my squadron doesn't have a plane but the next squadron over does. Can I use theirs?

CAP planes belong to the CAP, not any group or squadron. Fly any plane you want.

[That Anonymous Guy]

Also, in regards to paperwork what will I need. A flight physical and what else?

[SarDragon]

Also, in regards to paperwork what will I need. A flight physical and what else?

Ground school of some form, and passing the written exam are helpful.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

Speaking as a CFI who has turned down more CAP Cadets than I have accepted as students:
*Medical:  Absolutely required prior to solo.
*Signed Notarized letter of permission from the parents, both parents even if divorced/seperated. 
*Attitude:  If you want to learn to fly because you thinks its kool, take your kool someplace else.  I want the dreamers, the students with the "fire in the belly".  I want the kid who is willing to wash the entire airplane in exchange for 1 hour of flight.  I want the motivated and dedicated.
* Grades:  Show me your report card  (I am looking for discipline).
* I want a letter of recommendation from the Cadet's Squadron Commander.

Once flying, there will be homework assignments and taskings.  miss two and the student is done.

Hard A$$?
As others have said, teaching a cadet is costing me $35.00 per hour that I am not getting from a paying student.  Not only for the flight time, but also for the lesson prep time I put in before each flight, for the pre & post flight briefings, etc.

[Thrashed]

I offered free instruction to the cadets in my squadron, IF they get the medical and written done. I even taught the ground school free. Not one cadet took the offer. We offered Orientation flights to multiple squadrons a week or so ago. Not one cadet was interested!  I don't get it. I was that kid with his nose in the fence at the airport.

[Critical AOA]

I offered free instruction to the cadets in my squadron, IF they get the medical and written done. I even taught the ground school free. Not one cadet took the offer. We offered Orientation flights to multiple squadrons a week or so ago. Not one cadet was interested!  I don't get it. I was that kid with his nose in the fence at the airport.

Makes me wonder why these kids even joined CAP.

[Critical AOA]

 
*Attitude:  If you want to learn to fly because you thinks its kool, take your kool someplace else. 

I have always thought flying is kool cool.  What is wrong with that?

[Cliff_Chambliss]

likewise.

As a cadet there were three of us that literally lived at the airport on weekends begging pilots for rides, washing airplanes in exchange for flying time etc.  Our CAP Sqdn at that time had an Aeronca L-16, a Ryan L-17, and the squadron in the next town had an L-21, all great flying machines.  Begging rides from senior members, we got O-Rides in a PT-17 Stearman and a T-6 Texan and the Cessna 170 in addition to the CAP owned aircraft. 

Rides were earned by lots of hard work washing, waxing, running errands, and plain begging.  There was flight line to go get, prop wash to borrow and so on.  There were also opportunities to really get dirty helping the mechanics perform maintenance. 

I treasure these memories and think back how lucky we were to get a useful education of sorts not found in books.  Two flights rally stand out in my memory, one was my first cadet O-Ride in a PT-17 Stearman in 1963.   First O-Ride and an introduction to Hammerhead Stalls, and a loop.  In an open cockpit airplane you will remember - that is if you keep your eyes open. 

Another flight is when I was called early on a Saturday Morning by a senior member who asked if I wanted to go from Birmingham, Alabama to Meridan, Mississippi to pick up an airplane. four of us flew over in the Ryan L-17 Navion, and then the Senior Member Pilot and I got in the Piper L-21 and came home. 

Three of the Senior member pilots from those cadet days are still active members in our squadron.  One no longer flies as PIC, but the other two are still active mission pilots and O-Ride pilots.

Cadets in todays cushioned, pampered, politically correct world are being denied the opportunity to live and discover life.  Things we did as cadets and youth would today get you expelled, medicated, incarcerated or all three.  I don't envy today's youth at all.

[Cliff_Chambliss]

 
*Attitude:  If you want to learn to fly because you thinks its kool, take your kool someplace else. 

I have always thought flying is kool cool.  What is wrong with that?

Nothing is wrong with that, as long as that is not the sole motivation for wanting to fly.

as said to me by a cadet:
  "flying is kinda cool but it's not something I want to work at" 

[Eclipse]

I offered free instruction to the cadets in my squadron, IF they get the medical and written done. I even taught the ground school free. Not one cadet took the offer. We offered Orientation flights to multiple squadrons a week or so ago. Not one cadet was interested!  I don't get it. I was that kid with his nose in the fence at the airport.

Aviation in general is no longer a big deal.  Its long-term success has become its own enemy, just like space flight.  What was once a "miracle" is now
simply another common place tool of modern society.

I have to admit, this is the case even for myself.  Before I became a "road warrior", commercial flying was "amazing" and rare enough to me that I insisted on a window seat, with eyes glued outside the whole flight, I would listen to ATC anytime it was offered, etc., etc.  Now I just want an aisle so I can get off the plane quicker, and anything short of a barrel roll doesn't really rate attention.

Same with CAP flying - I see it as a means to a mission end.   I enjoy it at that level, but its essentially "work", and for whatever reason I really
have no interest in taking the stick.

The media hasn't helped much either - turning aviation into a commodity and essentially killing the image of the pilot as leader and example.  Some rare, but high-visibility mistakes by commercial pilots in the last few years haven't helped either.  For every Sullenberger, there's a thousand guys just doing a job for low pay and shrinking (if any) benefits.

[That Anonymous Guy]

I offered free instruction to the cadets in my squadron, IF they get the medical and written done. I even taught the ground school free. Not one cadet took the offer. We offered Orientation flights to multiple squadrons a week or so ago. Not one cadet was interested!  I don't get it. I was that kid with his nose in the fence at the airport.

Can I join your squadron?