US Military facing Chaplain Crisis

[Brad]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1551833830001/us-military-facing-chaplain-crisis/?playlist_id=86856

I wonder if the USAF has done any inquires to this. I know one of the stated missions of the CAP Chaplaincy program is to supplement active-duty Chaplains where needed.

[RADIOMAN015]

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1551833830001/us-military-facing-chaplain-crisis/?playlist_id=86856

I wonder if the USAF has done any inquires to this. I know one of the stated missions of the CAP Chaplaincy program is to supplement active-duty Chaplains where needed.

IF the chaplain in CAP already has a local congregation, he/she will likely NOT be able to support the USAF on any of these missions and may also have permission ONLY to provide support to the local CAP unit.
RM

[Eclipse]

If the chaplain in CAP already has a local congregation, he/she will likely NOT be able to support the USAF on any of these missions and may also have permission ONLY to provide support to the local CAP unit.

100% incorrect, and literally not the experience of CAP chaplains.

[RADIOMAN015]

If the chaplain in CAP already has a local congregation, he/she will likely NOT be able to support the USAF on any of these missions and may also have permission ONLY to provide support to the local CAP unit.

100% incorrect, and literally not the experience of CAP chaplains.

So you think the Catholic church that allows its' priest to join the local CAP unit to help out is going to let him go off for many weeks performing missions for the USAF    Now if the priest is retired and not affiliated than that might be possible.  They also could become civilian contractors for the USAF.  I know when I was in the AF we had some that filled in and got paid for it.   

We recently recruited a chaplain (not of Catholic denomination) and his bishop did clarify with the individual what he would be doing BEFORE he signed the permission, and it wasn't being deployed anywhere but to help the local unit.
RM 

[Eclipse]

If the chaplain in CAP already has a local congregation, he/she will likely NOT be able to support the USAF on any of these missions and may also have permission ONLY to provide support to the local CAP unit.

100% incorrect, and literally not the experience of CAP chaplains.

So you think the Catholic church that allows its' priest to join the local CAP unit to help out is going to let him go off for many weeks performing missions for the USAF

Yes.  And who said it would be "weeks"?

Most augnmentee service by CAP chaplains is local to fill in for deployed or otherwise busy military Chaplains - funerals, wedding, counseling, etc.
And just like any other CAP service, it is all voluntary.  If you're busy, you don't go.  Chaplains are no different..

You have one chaplain who's leaders want clarification on his commitment and that equals "no one can do it, anywhere"?

[RADIOMAN015]

If the chaplain in CAP already has a local congregation, he/she will likely NOT be able to support the USAF on any of these missions and may also have permission ONLY to provide support to the local CAP unit.

100% incorrect, and literally not the experience of CAP chaplains.

So you think the Catholic church that allows its' priest to join the local CAP unit to help out is going to let him go off for many weeks performing missions for the USAF

Yes.  And who said it would be "weeks"?

Most augnmentee service by CAP chaplains is local to fill in for deployed or otherwise busy military Chaplains - funerals, wedding, counseling, etc.
And just like any other CAP service, it is all voluntary.  If you're busy, you don't go.  Chaplains are no different..

You have one chaplain who's leaders want clarification on his commitment and that equals "no one can do it, anywhere"?

Well our volunteer chaplain is still active in the ministry with a congregation.  Likely most of CAP's chaplains are retired, and do "fill ins" with other congregations, and would likely have more flexibility in supporting AF missions.

For the active ministers and priests, that join CAP, their prime employer also has a chain of command and that organization (including even at the local church level) may very well have a large say in what a CAP chaplain can and can't do.  Most religions have services on specific days of the week, so if staffing is tight on the outside (e.g. Catholic priests), it's going to be a challenge to get temporary help to fill that (Mass) need on the specific day.    Personally, I would think on most local US bases, there's churches of just about every mainstream religious denomination just out the gate and the world won't end if a particular denomination isn't represented.    Surely what the original post/Fox News broadcast seems to focus more on overseas/war zones than in the US.

BTW, my military experience was that most local military bases usually get augmented via the local religious organizations and not Civil Air Patrol.   Never heard of CAP providing any support at any of the 9 US bases I was stationed at during my active duty career.
RM             

[Ed Bos]

^ That's a very scientific study ... N = 1.

Your experience is YOURS. Go ask around with the subject matter experts before you assert this nonsense publicly.

[RADIOMAN015]

^ That's a very scientific study ... N = 1.

Your experience is YOURS. Go ask around with the subject matter experts before you assert this nonsense publicly.

What's is your heartburn about?   Surely CAP "retired" chaplains likely do continue to provide a service, BUT I've never personally seen that -- I've seen local priests (on an ever changing schedule of different ones)  utilized as auxiliary chaplains.    Regarding military chaplains, I think other than overseas/war zone, and perhaps some training bases state side, they have much less impact today since many military members and their families live off base and make use of community religious resources where they live.    Hey I went to confession once and I think the penance was being placed on the base Catholic Chaplain's Financial Committee (at the time the AF did not fund for any religious specific items, they are bought from funds collected from the parishoners). :angel:   

My guess is CAP really doesn't have that many Catholic chaplains in its' ranks anyways.  If they can help the AF out, that would be great and I salute them for their service :clap:
RM     

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

As someone who gave serious thought to going to seminary (Lutheran) and who has known several CAP chaplains, my experience with them is not like RM's, at least not across-the-board.

I think it has a LOT to do with how their church denomination is governed as to how much freedom they have to minister in non-standard ways.

The Roman Catholic Church is probably THE most top-down branch of Christendom in the world...everything flows from the Vatican...although Eastern Orthodox and some of the more conservative Anglicans come close.  If the Bishop/Archbishop/Cardinal/Pope says you can, you can, if they say you can't, you can't.

Methodists and some Lutherans have a similar structure, though usually not as rigid.

Presbyterians, Congregationalists and especially Baptists tend to be a lot more congregational (especially Baptists) and thus have more leeway.  One squadron I served in had a Chaplain who was an Independent Baptist minister and it was a pain getting ecclesiastical endorsement for him because his denomination has very little in the way of higher structure.

We later had a Presbyterian chaplain who was in the process of getting approval to augment a nearby Air National Guard wing, but then he got a call to a congregation in another state.

As far as other faiths (Jewish, Muslim), I know little to nothing about how they're governed.

[Major Lord]

Some priests are "owned" by an order, and can go and do pretty much only what their order allows them to do. There are Diocesan Priests who are more "free agents" , as well as semi-retired or fully retired priests who do fill-in work for vacations, sick priests, etc. Most of these guys are on pretty minimal incomes, and it would be a real hardship for a lot of priests to do much more than the occasional service. One of our locals, a retired full Bird Colonel of the USAF Chaplaincy, fill in at Travis on a regular basis. I have tried to recruit him to CAP many times, but his order won't let him "freelance". Another factor could well be that the President has pretty much  declared war on the Roman Catholic Church, and priests are not exactly feeling the love from Uncle Sam right now.

Major Lord

[Chappie]

For the record .... only CAP Chaplains who meet the academic requirements of an active duty/reserve/guard chaplain (72 hour graduate degree in theology or pastoral care from an accredited institution) can serve as a "force multiplier".  While that is simply volunteer, these chaplains fill in on week-ends or during the week when they are available at the request of a base/wing chaplain in the case of their chaplains being deployed.  These "force multipliers" fill the pulpit, counsel, officiate marriages or funerals, flight-line ministries, etc.  Strictly volunteer...nothing is mandated.  On the other hand, there are a great number of CAP chaplains who are waivered (that is -- they have an accredited Bachelors but no 72 hour graduate degree; however, they have 5 or more years of experience as a pastor, priest, rabbi, iman, etc).  I am one of those waivered chaplains and am content to carry out my responsibilities as a CAP chaplain.  A vast majority of our CAP chaplains do not live near an active USAF (reserve or ANG) base (which is our primary "client" -- there are a few that assist  Army/National Guard/State Reserve units...but they need to meet the same stated requirements above pertaining to education).

[Chappie]

I think it has a LOT to do with how their church denomination is governed as to how much freedom they have to minister in non-standard ways.

That is true....I have had my share of trying to assist chaplain applicants with their ecclesiatical endorsements.  Often it involves simply describing what the duties/responsibilities would be.  Sad to say I have encountered a couple of groups that were so territoritorial or not in the "out of the box" thinking when it comes to allowing its ministers to participate in CAP chaplaincy.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

For the record .... only CAP Chaplains who meet the academic requirements of an active duty/reserve/guard chaplain (72 hour graduate degree in theology or pastoral care from an accredited institution) can serve as a "force multiplier". 

Sir, isn't that what most major denominations require for ordination?

I am a Lutheran (Missouri Synod) and every pastor I have ever known has had at least an M.Div.  The Presbyterian chaplain I mentioned was working on his Th.D. (I think) when he got the call to another state.

I have no idea what the credentials of our Independent Baptist chaplain were.

I think that being clergy in one of the more small-e episcopally-governed denominations (RCC, Orthodox, Episcopal/Anglican, Methodist) might be hard to make a commitment to CAP, since they can get moved around almost at the will of their bishop/archbishop/superintendent.  A Methodist minister (and Army vet) once told me "it's almost like I'm still in the Army...I have to go where the bishop sends me, sometimes with very little notice."

[Sleepwalker]

A few years back, a CAP Chaplain (Catholic) held the regular Sunday services on the local base (Army), and performed other services (weddings, funerals, etc.) covering for the regular Priest who was deployed to Iraq with his troops.  So it must happen at least some of the time.     

[AngelWings]

Problem solver: Signing bonuses. 'Nuff said. I know many people, no matter what social status (high class to lower class) who'll sign away 4 years just because some extra money is on the table. I don't mean to sound young or stupid, but I've seen it with my own two eyes.

[RADIOMAN015]

Problem solver: Signing bonuses. 'Nuff said. I know many people, no matter what social status (high class to lower class) who'll sign away 4 years just because some extra money is on the table. I don't mean to sound young or stupid, but I've seen it with my own two eyes.

Actually if you read the initial article, the DOD is now paying part of the tuition for schooling for catholic priests, with the expectation of some required military active duty (as is the same with physicians), so there is a plan.

Also remember that depending upon the religion/ order branch, that so called "chain of command" also may have a say regarding IF a priest can stay in for a long period of time in order to make retirement in the military.   Should be interesting to see what the future brings with this staffing issue
RM 

[Eclipse]

Chaplains join CAP, they volunteer when they can, just like every other member.

Any drama on the side of their denomination is between them and their church, just like any other employer.

If you can go, great, if you can't , no problem.

Next pretend issue...

[abdsp51]

 There are also many other ordained ministers in the chaplain's corp.  The clipped focused on one faith in particular and not the overall numbers for the corp.

[RADIOMAN015]

Chaplains join CAP, they volunteer when they can, just like every other member.

Any drama on the side of their denomination is between them and their church, just like any other employer.

If you can go, great, if you can't , no problem.

Next pretend issue...

To the military this is not a pretend issue.

To the CAP Chaplain Corps, surely they would like to help IF THEY CAN.   The point is that even when serving as a volunteer in CAP they may have restrictions placed on them, which may be greater than what the average non chaplain member has to deal with.     Many if not most 'civilian" members when off from scheduled work can do what they please.   With clergy it is likely a 24 hour a day commitment to their congregation.
RM     

[Eclipse]

No, the issue is you want to try and turn any story you can into an indictment of the volunteer paradigm unless it matches the view outside of your window.

Not everyone is on the edge of being fired, works 24x7 with the risk of being fired if he wants a day off, or worse, expects support from his employer to serve the community, and not everyone in CAP pinches nickels like they were white gloved cells.