officer insignia?

[spiker84]

alright, I have a rather strange dilemma... I am very close to getting my Mitchell but as much as I'd like do do that, I have some reservations about becoming an officer. The biggest part is that I really don't want people always saluting, greeting, calling the room, etc. ( i don't mind so much at my home squadron) but is there anything in regulations that says that I can't still wear just chief insignia when I'm at an event so that that doesn't happen?

[lordmonar]

No.

If you don't want to be a LT....don't promote!

Remember that you not wanting to play is disrepectful to those that are doing their part of the customs and courtesies.

[Eclipse]

Progression is an important part of the program, and learning to accept the responsibility, authority, and occasional perk of
your grade is all part of the fun.

Embrace it and learn from it, but non-progression is not an option, nor is hiding from your grade.

[spiker84]

Thank you, defiantly understand you're points of view. As much as i don't want to promote yet, there is immense pressure in my squadron to do so, and its been almost a year since I have promoted and I don't want to face the 2A...

[Darkside1]

Chief, its a sign of respect pure and simple. You respect them back by returning that salute and by putting them at ease when you enter the room.

Don't run away from a challenge. I think what you are worried about is being an officer that demands respect and returns little of it to his/her people. Promote and be one of the good officers. Accept the respect you receive and in return take care of your people. Don't be afraid of the office. Very little of Officers work is standing around trolling for salutes.

Its nothing different then being referred to as "chief" and wearing pointy chevrons. A chief afraid of his stripes is just as no good as an officer afraid of his insignia. Do your job and the rest will fall in line.

[PA Guy]

If you have the ability to promote and don't shame on you.  This BS about staying a chief forever many cadets have hurts not only the individual but the cadet program as a whole. Would you stay in junior high forever just so you wouldn't have to go to high school?  Staying a chief forever doesn't do you or your sqdn any good.  Get over it and promote.

[PHall]

Thank you, defiantly understand you're points of view. As much as i don't want to promote yet, there is immense pressure in my squadron to do so, and its been almost a year since I have promoted and I don't want to face the 2A...

Yeah, you can be 2b'd for "Failure to progress in the Cadet Program." And not promoting in over a year will make a pretty good case.
Just remember, you're only HALF WAY THROUGH the Cadet Program. Why stop at the half way point?

[arajca]

Thank you, defiantly understand you're points of view. As much as i don't want to promote yet, there is immense pressure in my squadron to do so, and its been almost a year since I have promoted and I don't want to face the 2A...

Yeah, you can be 2b'd for "Failure to progress in the Cadet Program." And not promoting in over a year will make a pretty good case.
Just remember, you're only HALF WAY THROUGH the Cadet Program. Why stop at the half way point?

Having not completed the Mitchell, he's not even half way.

[NEBoom]

<snip>
Just remember, you're only HALF WAY THROUGH the Cadet Program. Why stop at the half way point?

^+1
What you've learned in Leadership so far in the program is but half of what you need to know for life.  The information coming up in the next two volumes of Leadership (Phase 3 and 4) is essential to your development as a leader.  Don't think for a minute that you'll never need that stuff, because you will.  No doubt about it.  Move on in the program and keep learning.

As to the customs and courtesies issue, I do agree with you that it is odd and even a bit uncomfortable at first, but you get used to it soon enough and it really becomes no big deal.  If you happen to be the first in your cadet peer group to get the Mitchell, it is a bit awkward to expect your friends to now treat you differently (of course, if they really are your friends it should not bother them).  But you should think of the younger cadets that are or soon will be in your unit.  What did you learn as a Cadet Airman and NCO by observing customs and courtesies with your superiors?  Valuable lessons I would bet.  Failing to promote and take on the responsibilities of officership deprives your younger cadets of the opportunity to learn those same lessons for themselves.  Not to mention it deprives your unit of the benefits of another Cadet Leader on staff.  Judging by your remark about pressure to promote I'd guess your unit needs Cadet Leaders.

The Mitchell opens doors too.  Some NCSAs require it, as do some scholarships I believe (check on that to be sure, I haven't looked at scholarships lately).  Advanced promotion should you enlist in the USAF is available.

Bottom line, do it.  You only get one shot at being a CAP Cadet.

[Ford73Diesel]

This is going to sound like an echo, but....

Get the Mitchell. You won't regret it. It may be awkward at first, but you will get used to it. Just remember you had to salute C/O's. There was a time were I was against it, but I remember as a young cadet how proud I was to salute cadet O's that I respected. It is part of the program.

Of my seven years as a cadet, 5 of them where phase 3 and 4.  My C/O days were the most fun and rewarding part of my cadet "career" The Mitchell opens many opportunities in the wing and beyond.

Also the fixation some people have with being a C/CMSgt is a little strange and something I will never understand.  (not saying this is you, but in general) I think some cadets get hung up on comparing C/CMSgt to RM E-9, forgetting that EVERY cadet officer was a C/CMSgt at on point.  Also, C/O's in my experience are not really paper pushers. Yeah, there will be some more paperwork but every meeting won't involve you sitting behind a desk all the time.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

C/Chief, if I could order you to promote, I would! :clap:

I remember the feeling I had when my first squadron CC pinned (OK, slipped horrible looking maroon epaulettes on) 2nd Lieutenant on me, all those years ago.  I was actually an officer, a CAP officer.  My dad, a former Army enlisted man, jokingly said, "Shavetail second looie...you don't know whether to salute them or burp them!" but he was proud.

We don't get paid for what we do in CAP but you can't put a price tag on that kind of feeling...but with it is a knowledge of responsibility.  I remember when I walked into a roomful of cadets for the first time and they all came to attention...I thought, "they're doing that for a dirtball like me?"  I just barely said "um, as you were."

I'm hoping to promote to Major this June, and that will be a different feeling, just as Captain and First Lieutenant were.

I have observed this nonsensical thinking that a "Chief should remain a Chief" in the cadet side of things.  It's silly, has no basis in reality and you're just shooting yourself in the foot with a mindset like that.

I had a RM (Real Military) supervisor who was a "mustang."  He'd gone up to MSgt and then he got a commission and retired as a Captain.  He decided to do this because at that time he said the promotion lists for top-level NCO's were very tight.

My first squadron produced a Spaatz cadet.  She was an exceptional young woman who really did go on to bigger and better things (I think as a civil engineering officer in the Air Force, but that was a long time ago so I'm not sure) who would likely have not done so had she chosen to stop her progression through the cadet levels.

Don't hold yourself back.

[Duke Dillio]

Thank you, defiantly understand you're points of view. As much as i don't want to promote yet, there is immense pressure in my squadron to do so, and its been almost a year since I have promoted and I don't want to face the 2A...

No need to be defiant....  and if you are gonna be a cadet officer, you gotta get the terminology straight.  A CAPF 2A is for awards.  A CAPF 2B is a membership termination.   

I think I know a little about where you are coming from.  When you are a senior cadet NCO, it seems like there is more respect in the position.  Then you get your Mitchell and it's like you are starting all over from scratch.  Unfortunately this is simply not the case.  It's not like the real military where you are either enlisted or commissioned.  You work in a straight line starting from basic moving your way to C/Col.  I can also assure you that the reason there is immense pressure to get your Mitchell is because the seniors in your unit want to see you succeed.

Now, lets look at some of the pros to being a cadet officer.  You will never have to worry about making sure your rank is on straight because it is sewn onto the BDU's and most cadets know how to put their epaulets on straight and not upside down.  Second, you will be joining a proud group of less than 50,000 people who have earned the Mitchell award and the group only gets smaller as you progress through the Earhart and Eaker prior to the Spaatz.  Third, as a cadet officer you don't have to do so much because you have "people..."   

So I simply say get over the nasty thoughts in your head about saluting and what not, finish up your Mitchell so you can go to IACE, and get your "people" to work...   (The saluting thing isn't that bad unless you happen to be standing next to a bus full of cadets who are just arriving.....)

[MSG Mac]

The highlighted portions of the Cadet Oathare applicable

I pledge that I will serve faithfullyin the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program,
and that I will attend meetings regularlyparticipate actively in unit activities,
obey my officers,
wear my uniform properly,and advance my education and training rapidly
to prepare myself to be of serviceto my community, state, and nation.

[RiverAux]

I have observed this nonsensical thinking that a "Chief should remain a Chief" in the cadet side of things.  It's silly, has no basis in reality and you're just shooting yourself in the foot with a mindset like that.

To be fair, its not just seen in cadets.  Witness our "NCO program" for the one or two former military NCOs in each state who don't want to be a CAP officer for whatever reason. 

[PHall]

I have observed this nonsensical thinking that a "Chief should remain a Chief" in the cadet side of things.  It's silly, has no basis in reality and you're just shooting yourself in the foot with a mindset like that.

To be fair, its not just seen in cadets.  Witness our "NCO program" for the one or two former military NCOs in each state who don't want to be a CAP officer for whatever reason.

Apples and oranges. Senior members  are NOT required to promote or to even advance through the "program".
Cadets are.

[LGM30GMCC]

There's really not much to add to the whole 'don't stop at chief' discussion.

That being said...anyone else notice this is a uniform thread that turned into a leadership one? 

I think one of the seals of the apocalypse was just opened...

[RiverAux]

I have observed this nonsensical thinking that a "Chief should remain a Chief" in the cadet side of things.  It's silly, has no basis in reality and you're just shooting yourself in the foot with a mindset like that.

To be fair, its not just seen in cadets.  Witness our "NCO program" for the one or two former military NCOs in each state who don't want to be a CAP officer for whatever reason.

Apples and oranges. Senior members  are NOT required to promote or to even advance through the "program".
Cadets are.

The point being that some have unreasonably believe that being an NCO is somehow more noble or prestigious than being a CAP officer, either cadet or senior.   There is no other reason for the senior member NCO program other than the vanity of those who choose to be NCOs.  This is obviously different than the cadet program where it is clearly a step in a well-thought out CAP career progression.  As there is no other reason to be a CAP senior member NCO than such a belief as is seen in some cadet chiefs, this seems like an apples to apples comparison.

[SarDragon]

Second, you will be joining a proud group of less than 50,000 people who have earned the Mitchell award and the group only gets smaller as you progress through the Earhart and Eaker prior to the Spaatz.

Ummm... Let us not forget the folks from 1964 to 1980-something who earned their Mitchell awards before they had numbers on them.

[Eclipse]

NCO's are about direct management, and in many cases turning the wrench with the team - much easier than the indirect leadership of an officer.

In a corporate world it's the difference between a "team leader" and a "manager".  Difficult lessons, but important ones, and in this day and age where
"everybody gets a trophy" (until the reality sandwich that smacks people when they enter the real world), all too late in coming.

Learn it and embrace it early and you will be ahead of the pack. 

Another place where the properly executed cadet program shines.

[Duke Dillio]

Second, you will be joining a proud group of less than 50,000 people who have earned the Mitchell award and the group only gets smaller as you progress through the Earhart and Eaker prior to the Spaatz.

Ummm... Let us not forget the folks from 1964 to 1980-something who earned their Mitchell awards before they had numbers on them.

Point well taken.  Thanks for pointing that out.  What Mitchell numbers are we at now anyways?