squadron dues

[MarkJ]

I am looking for input from squadrons who charge dues.  Specifically what squadron's charge for seniors and cadets, and how it is paid (monthy, annually, etc.)  Any input appreciated.

[mclarke]

I do not believe mine does, however, we do have a few in our wing. Many of them have booster clubs and the squadron fee is actually a membership fee to the booster club.

[Larry Mangum]

If a squadron is charging a membership fee that is going directly to a booster club, I believe those units are in violation of CAPR 173-4.

To quote, "Parents, community leaders, and CAP members may create booster clubs to support local units. Such booster clubs must exist as entities wholly separate and apart from any CAP control and bear sole responsibility for compliance with local, state, and federal laws."

So if you are collecting dues for them, then they are not being run as a separate entity.  Units have been shut down in the past for similar violations.

[Woodsy]

My squadron dues are $100 a year.  For those that don't want to pay lump sum (most of us) we pay $10 a month.  This is for seniors, I'm not sure what cadets are exactly but it's way less, I think $25 give or take.  This money goes to pay rent for the very nice facility/HQ we have on the airport grounds and utilities, repairs, etc.  We also have a "family" program that includes cadet membership for kids and Senior or cadet sponsor for parents, not sure the prices on those but it's significantly cheaper than if they were paying each individual membership.  Some may say the dues are a little steep on top of the national dues and other CAP expenses, but for our facility it is worth it. That said, financial stuff (other than the national dues which are a must) isn't going to exclude someone from membership.  People fall on hard times, money isn't always there, and everyone understands that. 

[Major Carrales]

In our old unit, dues were collected to the support of the aircraft.  Thus, pilots and aircrews agreed to pay $10 a month. This generated funds to maintain the Aircraft and Hangar needs.  This was handled by the Finance Officer and a Finance Committee.

Others, who were not directly involved in flight activities, cadets and people on that side, usually did not pay dues unless there was something we needed to save up for...like drill rifles, flags and the like.  This, too was handled by the Finance Committee.

This was done because there were visiable needs...aviation related needs and cadet ones.  People were happy to pay them because they saw the money going to good effect.  Cadets/parents only paid for things needed for activities.  Everyone pulled together, the item was obtained for the unit and no money was wasted.  (for those seeing some issue with my stance on free uniform, remember saving for the exraordinary...encampments, drill items or squadron...gets people into it; saving for the basics as if they were "extraordinary" robs from the effectiveness of this process)

[FW]

I do not believe mine does, however, we do have a few in our wing. Many of them have booster clubs and the squadron fee is actually a membership fee to the booster club.

Ouch!

I surely hope that is not the case.  As Larry said; it's against the regs to "front" for a booster club.  Once the money is deposited into the unit's "account".  It becomes "corporate cash".  Paying to another entity as, in avoiding the WBP, is considered FW&A.  Don't even think about it....

[Eclipse]

Yep - assuming they are properly constituted, boosters are fine (useless, unnecessary, a serious potential for problems, but fine), and there can not even be a hint of a suggestion by the commander or staff that money considered "dues" goes to a booster club.

As to hanger and aircraft expenses, that is not something a unit should be responsible for.  Same goes for anything but bare-minimum consumables for a COV.  That should all be covered by NHQ.

I had units that charged dues to pay rents and utils for their building, which is fine, but I'm not a big fan of anything beyond that as the program and
activities should be mostly self-sustaining.  I'm also personally aware of far too many units that collect dues and other fees, then won't spend the money,
which results in them sitting on 4 or even 5 figures of surplus, which is ridiculous.

[Major Carrales]

If I may, Eclipse, submit that if a unit is paying a full rent for a place and utilties...should that building best be used daily.  Why pay a full monts rent for a meeting place if it is only used 4 to 8 days out of the month? 

[Eclipse]

Who said "full rents". 

We're talking about token payment ($20 a month for a t-hanger, etc.) and then as-consumed utilities.

For example my unit paid nothing for a stand-alone mobile classroom-style building, but gas and electric
were over $1200 a year.  As ops tempo increased, so did the utilities.

[Major Carrales]

Who said "full rents". 

We're talking about token payment ($20 a month for a t-hanger, etc.) and then as-consumed utilities.

For example my unit paid nothing for a stand-alone mobile classroom-style building, but gas and electric
were over $1200 a year.  As ops tempo increased, so did the utilities.

I have knows of units paying "full rents," usually they have some sort of grant or other financial windfall that allows it to happen.  The building sits empty 80% of the time.  The unit usually grows into the place, then the windwall dies down and they have to meet at Sirloin Stockade.  Not pretty.

We have access to some good deals for our units.  We meet at a school in Kingsville as an after school program, Corpus Christi has an understanding with the City and County.

[mclarke]

If a squadron is charging a membership fee that is going directly to a booster club, I believe those units are in violation of CAPR 173-4.

To quote, "Parents, community leaders, and CAP members may create booster clubs to support local units. Such booster clubs must exist as entities wholly separate and apart from any CAP control and bear sole responsibility for compliance with local, state, and federal laws."

So if you are collecting dues for them, then they are not being run as a separate entity.  Units have been shut down in the past for similar violations.

Actually you are wrong. Booster clubs are formed in support of CAP, however, have no direct relationship to CAP. What is being done is that rather than people pay squadron fees, booster clubs are being formed and members pay a fee to join that club. Then, that money is used to support the booster club, which in turn also supports CAP.

[Larry Mangum]

If to be a member of the squadron, you must pay dues to a "booster club", you are in violation, it is that simple.

[mclarke]

I never said they had to join. I simply said rather than have a squadron fee they have a booster club, and that if you want to join that club (key word, want to), then there is a fee.

[Major Carrales]

The so-called "CAP BOOSTER CLUBS" are much like the building associations of fraternal organizations that operate Knights of Columbus Halls and other such groups.  They may be made up of the same members, or even made to have the requirement membership limited to CAP membership, but they have their own officers and authority that is designed to prevent a duality of purpose.  Add to that that the described relationship of due going to the other would be duality of purpose.

Now, I see no benefit in paying CAP dues to the Booster club and then having the booster club pay them to CAP?  Why not just pay them to National without the middle man?  Unless your club was raising the money for the dues?  I don't know if that conforms to regulations.  I guess the Booster Club could determine the purpose of the collected money.  Raise 1,000...use it to pay the squadron's dues for the year?

A curious situation?

[Major Carrales]

I never said they had to join. I simply said rather than have a squadron fee they have a booster club, and that if you want to join that club (key word, want to), then there is a fee.

The idea, then, is that you are talking about the dues to the Booster Club...got it.  As in it would make more sense to pay to that organization than to the squadron...where various restrictions and procedures (WING BANKER) make it precarious to use.

[SARDOC]

My Squadron does not charge Cadets additional dues but we do charge Senior Members  $5 a month payable to the finance officer for deposit into the squadron account.  You must have the written authorization from the Wing Commander in order to charge squadron dues

[mclarke]

I never said they had to join. I simply said rather than have a squadron fee they have a booster club, and that if you want to join that club (key word, want to), then there is a fee.

The idea, then, is that you are talking about the dues to the Booster Club...got it.  As in it would make more sense to pay to that organization than to the squadron...where various restrictions and procedures (WING BANKER) make it precarious to use.

I believe so. My understanding of what one unit did (this is hear-say), is that they had a booster club, which does its own independant fundraising (AKA non-cap). They used some of that money to get laptops which were loaned to members that may need them for CAP, however, they were never the property of CAP. Now, this sounds grey area to me (being as there being used for CAP but owned by the booster club), but it is a nice idea.

I personally do not understand booster clubs all that well. I would rather pay a squadron due and just deal with CAP. It just sounds like a lot of politics to run a booster club. I get the idea around it, however, I do wish there was an easier way to do things.

[Eclipse]

It just sounds like a lot of politics to run a booster club. I get the idea around it, however, I do wish there was an easier way to do things.

It's almost all about politics and people who misunderstand the WBP and think they can "hide" money from NHQ, mixed with the occasional idea to have a fundraiser or some such that might normally break regs or common sense (sell alcohol, airplane rides, etc.).

I have yet to see a really good reason to bother.

[Larry Mangum]

Booster clubs while they sound good, have been a constant source of problems for many units as after awhile it seems the lines become blurred between the two.  In fact the regulations covering Booster Clubs keep getting tighter and tighter everytime the update CAPR 173-4.

I personally know of at least two units that have gotten into serious trouble over them.  One was eventually shut down and then allowed to recharter just to completely sever the two.

If you really think about it, why would you pay dues to another organization, or help it raise money, when you could do the same thing for your unit and have complete control of the money?  The only reason I can think of is that they can do several things that a unit is prohibited from doing in the regulation.

[mclarke]

Booster clubs while they sound good, have been a constant source of problems for many units as after awhile it seems the lines become blurred between the two.  In fact the regulations covering Booster Clubs keep getting tighter and tighter everytime the update CAPR 173-4.

I personally know of at least two units that have gotten into serious trouble over them.  One was eventually shut down and then allowed to recharter just to completely sever the two.

If you really think about it, why would you pay dues to another organization, or help it raise money, when you could do the same thing for your unit and have complete control of the money?  The only reason I can think of is that they can do several things that a unit is prohibited from doing in the regulation.

One of the biggest reasons I have seen is the money. Apparently (please correct me if I am wrong on this, I am only going off my understanding of the regs) if you make a certain amount, it is then reported to wing and distributed to all squadrons, same if you hit a certain amount its reported to region, and if you make a killer, national. So in other words, if you write a while lot of grants and someone donates 100,000 to your squadron, well, its going to end up at national and be distributed.