Questions about CAP and USAF relationship

[NCRblues]

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

By what measure?

I am currently trying to mend the relationships for a couple wings, but i have been meet with "pushback".

And how, exactly, are "you" going to mend those relationships?

One of the things my wing commander asked me to do, was act as a go between with the bases

Not that I doubt your statement, but isn't that what the state director is for?

It is, yes you are correct, but Missouri wing and Kansas wing share a SD, so when he is in say....western Kansas, and we need something from say, Fort lostinthewoods in south Missouri, I work as the go between. It has been cleared by CAP-USAF.

[NCRblues]

I guess i will have the dissenting view point here....again...

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

Is this the relationship OVERALL? NO, i think overall we are (currently) OK with the AF, but as the saying goes "all politics are local" so, where the political world of CAP is tense, so is the AF relationship with us. It has gotten much worse since mid January in NCR.

I guess it all depends on our view from where we're standing.  On the local level, there may be pushback due to local misunderstandings or mistakes made.  Many of these problems can be fixed by the SD or LR/CC.  At the CAP-USAF national level, I doubt we're having any significant issues.  At the Pentegon; we'll there may be some issues causing heartburn however, we won't be losing any "status"...... (yet).....  I think it is more of a short term thing and, will not effect the membership in any way.
just my $.02 

Like i said Colonel, Overall we are good to go 

[Eclipse]

I know eclipse that in your perfect world in chicago, and your amazing relationship with the Naval base, that you cant fathom in some places of the country, cap (due to past actions, and some current) are not well liked....

Actually, I probably know exactly what you're talking about, these relationships come at a the price of high maintenance.

[Spaceman3750]

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

By what measure?

I am currently trying to mend the relationships for a couple wings, but i have been meet with "pushback".

And how, exactly, are "you" going to mend those relationships?

One of the things my wing commander asked me to do, was act as a go between with the bases

Not that I doubt your statement, but isn't that what the state director is for?

It is, yes you are correct, but Missouri wing and Kansas wing share a SD, so when he is in say....western Kansas, and we need something from say, Fort lostinthewoods in south Missouri, I work as the go between. It has been cleared by CAP-USAF.

Understood. I hadn't heard of an SD being shared by two wings but there's a first time for everything!

[Eclipse]

I know eclipse that in your perfect world in chicago

That one word just explained so much.........................

Such as?  Funny how I am able to present my arguments without stereo typing and insulting people, yet I live in a "little world".

[FW]

Understood. I hadn't heard of an SD being shared by two wings but there's a first time for everything!

There are quite a few wings which share an SD.  Especially in the NER.

[DinoSarge]

This is very interesting. To the gentleman who said that some bases Barres some CAP members would you be able to say any reasons, (without names of course for privacy's sake)?

[NCRblues]

This is very interesting. To the gentleman who said that some bases Barres some CAP members would you be able to say any reasons, (without names of course for privacy's sake)?

No i can not, sorry. I can say it was individual actions, not actions of CAP as a whole. Some people just cant control themselves in public 

[DinoSarge]

This is very interesting. To the gentleman who said that some bases Barres some CAP members would you be able to say any reasons, (without names of course for privacy's sake)?

No i can not, sorry. I can say it was individual actions, not actions of CAP as a whole. Some people just cant control themselves in public 

Alright I gotcha sir. SEE OPSEC DOES WORK! (Rolls eyes).

[NCRblues]

This is very interesting. To the gentleman who said that some bases Barres some CAP members would you be able to say any reasons, (without names of course for privacy's sake)?

No i can not, sorry. I can say it was individual actions, not actions of CAP as a whole. Some people just cant control themselves in public 

Alright I gotcha sir. SEE OPSEC DOES WORK! (Rolls eyes).

I am not sure if it was a sarcastic opsec remark...but i Will treat it like it is.

Yes, opsec is important. What is more important is keeping my security clearances. I was on duty at the time some of the CAP members were placed on the base barment list, so the only way i could tell you would be for you to write my former commander, or the 509th BW/CC and request permission to look at the base barment list...

[Eclipse]

This is very interesting. To the gentleman who said that some bases Barres some CAP members would you be able to say any reasons, (without names of course for privacy's sake)?

In some places we have over stepped our bounds or made a mistake in front of the wrong person, at others the base commander either is not interested in, or misunderstands the AFI governing our access.

And in the vast majority we are welcome and on many considered as asset.

[NCRblues]

This is very interesting. To the gentleman who said that some bases Barres some CAP members would you be able to say any reasons, (without names of course for privacy's sake)?

In some places we have over stepped our bounds or made a mistake in front of the wrong person, at others the base commander either is not interested in, or misunderstands the AFI governing our access.

And in the vast majority we are welcome and on many considered as asset.

Agree 100% with this one. In fact 99.9% of cap members are welcomed with open arms and even *gasp* a salute. But like eclipse said, sometimes we have members that overstep, or don't think, and base commanders are not as forgiving as the civilian world would be....

[DinoSarge]

This is very interesting. To the gentleman who said that some bases Barres some CAP members would you be able to say any reasons, (without names of course for privacy's sake)?

No i can not, sorry. I can say it was individual actions, not actions of CAP as a whole. Some people just cant control themselves in public 

Alright I gotcha sir. SEE OPSEC DOES WORK! (Rolls eyes).

I am not sure if it was a sarcastic opsec remark...but i Will treat it like it is.

Yes, opsec is important. What is more important is keeping my security clearances. I was on duty at the time some of the CAP members were placed on the base barment list, so the only way i could tell you would be for you to write my former commander, or the 509th BW/CC and request permission to look at the base barment list...

I was mostly reffering to how *ehem*... our OPSEC is basically common sense with a non-disclosure agreement.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

My experience since '93 has been it depends on where you are and who you deal with.

That was the era of the "berry boards," imposed on us by the USAF for bad behaviour by a few individuals.

I've encountered the gamut of attitudes from AF personnel, from indifference to "who are they?" to veiled hostility to getting a hearty handshake from an AFRES colonel who thanked me profusely for what CAP does for the AF.

An AFRES MSgt once commented to me "you guys should get paid or at least get retirement points."

I have found that junior Airmen and Officers often don't know about us.

I have generally gotten a better reception from ANG and AFRES personnel than regular AF.

Customs and courtesies...it may seem unfair, but we are required to render them to Armed Forces personnel, but they aren't required to render them to us.  C'est la vie.

I almost always get saluted by Army and Marines.

The relationship has been strained, I would say since about 1990, and unfortunately a lot of the blame can be laid at the feet of some CAP members at various levels of leadership who want a "have your cake and eat it too" relationship with the AF...they don't like to be told by the AF what to do, but they sure like getting their flying hours funded.

As with many issues...YMMV.

[Larry Mangum]

MG Dean, addressed the attendees at the SER OPS Conference, and had nothing but good things to say about CAP. Same with the Colonel, commanding AFRCC.   So while things may be strained at a few bases due to bad behavior by a few CAP Members, the relationship as a whole is in good shape.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

By what measure?

I am currently trying to mend the relationships for a couple wings, but i have been meet with "pushback".

And how, exactly, are "you" going to mend those relationships?

One of the things my wing commander asked me to do, was act as a go between with the bases

Not that I doubt your statement, but isn't that what the state director is for?

It is, yes you are correct, but Missouri wing and Kansas wing share a SD, so when he is in say....western Kansas, and we need something from say, Fort lostinthewoods in south Missouri, I work as the go between. It has been cleared by CAP-USAF.

Understood. I hadn't heard of an SD being shared by two wings but there's a first time for everything!

CTWG, MAWG and RIWG share an SD

[Larry Mangum]

So does Washington and Oregon.

[Al Sayre]

As do MS & AL

[lordmonar]

My experience since '93 has been it depends on where you are and who you deal with.

That was the era of the "berry boards," imposed on us by the USAF for bad behaviour by a few individuals.

I've encountered the gamut of attitudes from AF personnel, from indifference to "who are they?" to veiled hostility to getting a hearty handshake from an AFRES colonel who thanked me profusely for what CAP does for the AF.

An AFRES MSgt once commented to me "you guys should get paid or at least get retirement points."

I have found that junior Airmen and Officers often don't know about us.

I have generally gotten a better reception from ANG and AFRES personnel than regular AF.

Customs and courtesies...it may seem unfair, but we are required to render them to Armed Forces personnel, but they aren't required to render them to us.  C'est la vie.

I almost always get saluted by Army and Marines.

The relationship has been strained, I would say since about 1990, and unfortunately a lot of the blame can be laid at the feet of some CAP members at various levels of leadership who want a "have your cake and eat it too" relationship with the AF...they don't like to be told by the AF what to do, but they sure like getting their flying hours funded.

As with many issues...YMMV.

This has been my experince.

The USAF does not educate their new people on who or what CAP is.

So it is hit or miss about the Rank and File's relationship with us.

If the first/only encounter is with some Senior Member trolling for salutes, or seeing a bunch of duffle bag cadets/seniors....then they are going to have a negitive view.

And that is the root to the "problem".  Since negitive examples tend to make the biggest impressions.......the random USAF member will either have a "who" or a "Oh those jokers" response.

But on the most part.....those USAF members who actually work with us.....know that for the most part.....that we are a professional and capable organisation.

If they did not.....they would not be asking us to do all the operations that we are involved in.

What can we do to "improve" the reationship?

1.  Follow CAP's core values. 
2.  Urge/Grouse/Beat all our peers to do the same.
3.  Meet with the local USAF base commander (if you are on or near a base) and establish and keep a good guest image.
4.  When we find the wannabes and those who are abusing the relationship......we take a stand and stop it....on the spot.

We all have stories of "that guy"......the one who can't/wont wear his uniform right.  The one who hangs out at the BX trooling for salutes.  The one who only joined CAP so he can get access to the Base Golf Course.  The one who told everyone he was a retired Lt Col....but got kicked out as an E-2.

When we find these guys......we stop them cold....and send them packing if they can't change their ways.

[N Harmon]

When we find these guys......we stop them cold....and send them packing if they can't change their ways.

Agree 100%.

I understand that those in the know can't talk specifics, but it seems to me that inappropriate behavior on a military base would be grounds for some serious CAP discipline, perhaps even 2B territory if it caused CAP to be banned from the base. Was any such discipline initiated?