Questions about CAP and USAF relationship

[DinoSarge]

Seeing as I have only been in a meager two and one half years my knowledge of NHQ policy and relations to the USAF is limited. I have a few questions and I was hoping that a few members could help me out. My questions are:

Is the CAP to USAF relationship distant, and strained? I have seen a lot of comments that would imply this.

Would you say the saying that "CAP is the unloved step child of the USAF and they only keep enough hands in to control things" is true?

another question

Do you guys think CAP should operate more OR less in a militaristic manner? Pros and cons of both please.

Thank you in advance.

[Eclipse]

No.

No.

More.

[DinoSarge]

No.

No.

More.

Any reasons for the first two sir (I like details)?

I do agree CAP needs to be more military in the way it operates. Otherwise actual members of the Armed Services might have a bad opinion of our great organization.

[jeders]

No
No
More

At least that's from where I sit down here in the weeds. Up at 30,000 feet, I think the answers are pretty much the same, but I have no personal experience to prove that.

[manfredvonrichthofen]

No.
No.
More.

I think that there are some that would like for you to believe that CAP - USAF relations are strained, but from what I can tell, they aren't.

If CAP were an unloved step child of the USAF, do you think that we would be allowed to wear the uniforms that we do? There is rhyme and reason for the other uniforms that aren't USAF style, and they are there for good reasons, nothing about feeling that CAP is unworthy, but to help show that all of CAP is worthy, even those who are overweight.

CAP doesn't show the proper courtesy to the USAF as it should. There is much more that we could and should do in a military manner. I know many units use and display the proper C&C, but there are some that don't. Those that don't need to be awakened to the reality of CAP and its military traditions and history. More emphasis needs to be placed on proper wear of the uniform, to include proper grooming. There is many more things that I could touch on like the rank structure and its lack of proper use, and the lack of a support channel on the SM side of the house.

[FW]

I think your questions can be answered pretty much by using the search button on top.  You'll find any number of discussions dealing with them. 
But for a quick response; no, no and, I'll wait and see what the governance study gives us...

[RADIOMAN015]

I think that the AF overall is VERY happy with CAP's emergency services/homeland security support, as well as the overall cadet program.    Since the AF provides most of CAP's financial support, there's a very strong interest to ensure that it isn't inappropriately utilized.    The squadron I'm in is fortunate to get significant support (e.g. dedicated facilities, heat, lights, air conditioning, and local/DSN telephone service) from the local air base, this support might not be apparent to others not on a military base.       

Those (senior members) associated with the cadet program tend to be more military than those involved only in the senior member aspect of Civil Air Patrol's missions.   

Although some of our adult members do like to "play Army/Air Force" more than others .   Since our name is CIVIL Air Patrol, and that should be the clue that we are the "civilian" auxiliary for the USAF.  HOWEVER, this doesn't mean that we are disrespectful to other volunteers (including those appointed as our commanders), nor act like "fools" whether in CAP specific uniform or the AF/CAP style uniform.  HOWEVER, also there's a lot of administrative "mumbo jumbo" that has to be complied with at the squadron level, so we need adults to step up to the plate and help with these non glory tasks, so that no member is overburdened. 
RM     

[Eclipse]

Any reasons for the first two sir (I like details)?

The first two just aren't true - anyone saying otherwise is trying to take micro problems or speed bumps and turn them into macro attitude.

As to being more military, I believe one of the things that has caused our internal struggles is the dilution of our military lineage and
allowing people to ignore our paramilitary structure.

"Playing Army" is not the point.   The point is getting people to understand that not all opinions are equal, there are ramifications to
bad behavior and poor performance, and that all "fun" comes at someone's expense.

To most non-wannabe adults, the most compelling thing about military service is the team work and honor that comes from working
together with like-minded individuals towards a common goal, and sometimes losing yourself in something bigger.  We all hold up a corner and together get things moving.

Today's society of "no one is really 'wrong", "everyone is equal", and "do your own thing" de-emphasizes teamwork and CAP has certainly not fought that in a meaningful way, which is why we have far too may people peeling off the tasty skin of CAP's KFC,
and leaving the "meat" of the work for "some other guy".

[cap235629]

Since the AF provides most of CAP's financial support, there's a very strong interest to ensure that it isn't inappropriately utilized. 

Incorrect. Our funding comes from CONGRESS not the AF. The AF is tasked to oversee expenditures but none of our finances appear in the AF budget.

[DinoSarge]

CAP doesn't show the proper courtesy to the USAF as it should. There is much more that we could and should do in a military manner. I know many units use and display the proper C&C, but there are some that don't. Those that don't need to be awakened to the reality of CAP and its military traditions and history. More emphasis needs to be placed on proper wear of the uniform, to include proper grooming. There is many more things that I could touch on like the rank structure and its lack of proper use, and the lack of a support channel on the SM side of the house.

That is something I have been noticing all too much recently sir. I'm a cadet staff member at my Sqdn and if nobody renders proper C&C to CAP or USAF superiors,  I give em a good tongue lashing whether I'm in their Chain of command or not (or I just tell their flight staff if they use the "You're not MY boss excuse.") I think that our cadet program on a general level is edging towards being like the boy scouts... (Of course there are still plenty of units that are great examples of the cadet program and what it should be, and demonstrate it all the time). We have Inspections in blues, with full notice and prep time given,  so our cadets can't pull anything about out of regs uniforms and grooming standards.

Regarding the non USAF uniforms, yes I understand the concept of weight standards.  I was not really reffering to weight standards.

Thank you for all the input so far gentlemen I appreciate it.

[RADIOMAN015]

Since the AF provides most of CAP's financial support, there's a very strong interest to ensure that it isn't inappropriately utilized. 

Incorrect. Our funding comes from CONGRESS not the AF. The AF is tasked to oversee expenditures but none of our finances appear in the AF budget.

I think you will find  that the Colonel and his staff at CAP-USAF HQ is the contract compliance/grants oversight --- IF CAP Inc doesn't comply that funding can be pulled and the grant terminated.    We come under AU, AETC, USAF for funding.  HOW do you think we are fortunate at the end of some fiscal years to get end of year "budget fall out" for our validated BUT unfunded (primarily vehicles, aircraft, and communications equipment) needs
RM

[FW]

Our grant is made by congress for CAP.  CAP-USAF works the complience/oversight issues for the OMB.  After all, we are the USAF Aux......

Fallout money is a gift from the Air Force.  We do have a good relationship with them and, they are who we assist....

And, yes, the Air Force can pull the plug on our grant if we don't follow the rules. 

[cap235629]

Our grant is made by congress for CAP.  CAP-USAF works the complience/oversight issues for the OMB.  After all, we are the USAF Aux......

Fallout money is a gift from the Air Force.  We do have a good relationship with them and, they are who we assist....

And, yes, the Air Force can pull the plug on our grant if we don't follow the rules.

isn't that basically what I said?

[FW]

^pretty much, yep.  you said it.  I agree.....

[NCRblues]

I guess i will have the dissenting view point here....again...

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

Now i know some of you will shout me down saying "nu huh the AF loves us around here", and that very well may be true. But around me, several bases (AF, and others) are refusing to help CAP out anymore. CAP members have even got themselves placed a few base barment lists.

Is this the relationship OVERALL? NO, i think overall we are (currently) OK with the AF, but as the saying goes "all politics are local" so, where the political world of CAP is tense, so is the AF relationship with us. It has gotten much worse since mid January in NCR.

I am currently trying to mend the relationships for a couple wings, but i have been meet with "pushback".

[Eclipse]

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

By what measure?

I am currently trying to mend the relationships for a couple wings, but i have been meet with "pushback".

And how, exactly, are "you" going to mend those relationships?

[NCRblues]

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

By what measure?

I am currently trying to mend the relationships for a couple wings, but i have been meet with "pushback".

And how, exactly, are "you" going to mend those relationships?

Just like you eclipse, i have a job that i do in CAP for the wing i am working for right now. One of the things my wing commander asked me to do, was act as a go between with the bases. I have a good relationship with 2 bases that i worked on while on active duty. They know me, know my face, and trust me, so who better to get a WORKING relationship going again?

For your first question, the political "grandstanding" that is occurring in NCR puts some folks (like base commanders) out. They just don't want it around, because frankly they have there own to deal with.

I know eclipse that in your perfect world in chicago, and your amazing relationship with the Naval base, that you cant fathom in some places of the country, cap (due to past actions, and some current) are not well liked....

[Spaceman3750]

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

By what measure?

I am currently trying to mend the relationships for a couple wings, but i have been meet with "pushback".

And how, exactly, are "you" going to mend those relationships?

One of the things my wing commander asked me to do, was act as a go between with the bases

Not that I doubt your statement, but isn't that what the state director is for?

[cap235629]

I know eclipse that in your perfect world in chicago

That one word just explained so much.........................

[FW]

I guess i will have the dissenting view point here....again...

Our relationship to USAF is a little strained at the moment.

Is this the relationship OVERALL? NO, i think overall we are (currently) OK with the AF, but as the saying goes "all politics are local" so, where the political world of CAP is tense, so is the AF relationship with us. It has gotten much worse since mid January in NCR.

I guess it all depends on our view from where we're standing.  On the local level, there may be pushback due to local misunderstandings or mistakes made.  Many of these problems can be fixed by the SD or LR/CC.  At the CAP-USAF national level, I doubt we're having any significant issues.  At the Pentegon; we'll there may be some issues causing heartburn however, we won't be losing any "status"...... (yet).....  I think it is more of a short term thing and, will not effect the membership in any way.
just my $.02