Historians List

[James Shaw]

Rant and Soap Box has been taken out so prepare!!

When I first became Assistant National Historian under Col Len Blascovich I had the very list that you speak of. I had expanded access to eservices that allowed me to pull this type of information. When I became National Curator my access was severly cut and now all I can see is National Staff. I see the same thing that every other CAP member has access to.

When I lost the acess I attempted to keep the list but it became very difficult and time consuming. People changed, email accounts dissapeared and very few people responded to much. The list died over about a two year period.

Most of the historians that I know are very dedicated just like all of the other CAP members, the biggest difference for us is that most members do not see the work that we do because it is usually wrapped up in someone elses work or project. We assist other groups such as the PAO, NHQ Staff with stuff and other projects that require some type of historical research. The historical stuff that you do see is only about 25% of what is actually done. I have had information that was supposed to be done for stories pulled for other stories. It happens to us just the same as it does to others.

Not all of our work is uniforms and badges (despite what other may see), we also work with historical apects of governence and board actions in support of research that is being done by other CAP Corporate Members. We are more than antique and dust collectors.

On the line of uniform related items. We have ideas passed by us from alot of people and the vast majority of them are shot down before it gets off the paper. Badges, ribbons, medals, and the such are consider alot and go through a vetting proces. Maybe and I mean maybe 5% makes it through. Even them most of those are killed as well. Not my choice buy that is the process. I am asked to design items and patches as well. We are asked for concept ideas to be produced and sometimes they go through and other times they die as well. For example:
At the last two NB's I was approached by leaders of national programs to design challenge coins, they wanted the designs within the next couple of hours that included heraldry information. As usual the historians responded and did our best just like other members would.

We have a VERY good list of the CAP Histrorical Collection because Col Bill Schell my predecessor was a phenomenal collector and cataloger. We know what we have and it is used when I try to find items. I do a cross check of what is in the collection so I dont waste CAP's money. It is safely stored and secured in a climnate controlled facility that only certain members have access to. There isw however a redundant system in place in the event that something happens to one of the primary members.

We have talked about (in passing) about how we could best use the collection to promote our history. We have considered donating the items to a "university" or somewhere like that but it is alot more difficult to do that than one would expect. It is alot more complicated because of the nature of the items. We have also begun looking into a central repository for the collection, the issue wuth that is the "custodian" of the collection and the access to the items. This is by no means as easy as it sounds. All of this has been kicked around alot. 

When I was asked to become the National Curator I accepted with a great deal of enthusiasm. I wanted to take a different approach than Bill. He concentrated on 100 variations of the same patch and I want to get our history out to the members. I know that I have had alot of conversations with members and my comments have been the same. "Our history has been setting on shelves, in closets, and attics and I wanted to change that. If you look at my Years Work that I posted you will see that I am very serious about my committment and I know the other historians are as well.

We have alot of opportunites in our program and there is no way to argue against that. I know and so do the other historians. I do have to say with 100% clarity that up until the recent years the historians have not had the support that we needed to make a difference. When Gen Courter took over we saw a HUGE difference in the level of professionalism that was given and expected of us. Being National Staff under her leadership has been great because she will work with me and help me in the tasks and challenges I face. She gives me straight forward honest opinions and expects the same from me. I do my best to do that. The historians we have are just as dedicated as every other member in uniform.

I applaud the efforts of others who are helping to move our history program forward. This is not a one person deal and we do try to work together as best as possible. For the most part we do a pretty good job. We also have troubles that are brought to us because of our work and our efforts. I think that others that are trying to bring CAP history to CAP are great. Believe it or not we also have people who work against us with their own personal agendas. I had an established professional relationship with a member for several years and worked with them in whatever capcity I could, that relationship was hampered by an outside person who launched personal attacks and seemingly won.

Just like every other member I have good feelings and not so good. I have to say that most of them are good. I do not have the same level of time and money as others to spend but that is the same thing that you may comeacross. Despite what some members think just because some of us are National Staff we are NOT corporate officer's and do not have any benefits as far a travel or expense. We are like every other member. I do get reimbursed for items I get for the collection and that is about it. I went to the NB in San Diego and had to pay for it all myself just like other members and I had been unemployed for almost a year but felt it was important for me to go.

I consider myself a professional first and a historian after, and I enjoy the work most of the time. Being a CAP Historian has been great and I feel just as important as any other job within CAP. We do not however get the facetime like others do. Our National Reports are optional at the NB and done if time permits. If I want to do a display at an event I have to find space. I have been fortunate for the most part at GAWG and SER Conferences and given space. I still pay the expenses associated just like every other member.

I have done an estimated 40 custom glass pieces for various CAP members at no cost. CAP paid for the glass most of the time and I did the blasting and etching myself. The labor was donated to CAP because I believe in the program. I have done this for CAP, CAPHF, and some outside purposes in support of CAP. Out of all of the people who appreciated it I would have to say the Gen Courter and Ed O'Brien have shown the greates level of appreciation. I did 17 smaller pieces this past Christmas for various members who have supported the historical program. I get no money for these and donate the crystal and labor because I believe in the program.

Most of my fellow members do not see the depth of time and energy dedicated to preserving and promoting CAP history. We have tremendous people such as Col Len Balscovich. Lt Col Axel Ostling, Lt Col Jeraldine Ostling, Lt Col Todd Engelman, 1st Lt Kacey Smith, Major Ed O'Brien and Lt Col Mark Hess, Lt Col Ray Lyon. These are just a few of the people that are current members. One of our fellow CAPTalkers BillB has donated countless items to me for the collection.

We are kind of like icebergs, you only see the top 10% of the effort but we work our tails off for CAP.

You may consider this long winded or just simply not needed....but look at this way...its history in the making.

Rant over and Soap Box is put away for now!!

[RiverAux]

Jim, just to be clear that I was primarily talking about a collection for historical documents and photographs as an unmet high priority item.  It shouldn't take long at all to find a home for such items (yes, I have done this in the past for 2 other organizations of which I've been a part).  If people actually believe that the annual histories and oral history recordings that they make will actually go someplace safe and where they can be accessed, then they might just be a little more willing to do the work in the first place.  As it stands now, I wouldn't recommend that anyone send any original historical documents or reports to NHQ. 

Finding an appropriate home for the patches, uniforms and other memorabilia would be much more difficult and in my point of view isn't quite as critical. 

[tarheel gumby]

Rant and Soap Box has been taken out so prepare!!

When I first became Assistant National Historian under Col Len Blascovich I had the very list that you speak of. I had expanded access to eservices that allowed me to pull this type of information. When I became National Curator my access was severly cut and now all I can see is National Staff. I see the same thing that every other CAP member has access to.

When I lost the acess I attempted to keep the list but it became very difficult and time consuming. People changed, email accounts dissapeared and very few people responded to much. The list died over about a two year period.

Most of the historians that I know are very dedicated just like all of the other CAP members, the biggest difference for us is that most members do not see the work that we do because it is usually wrapped up in someone elses work or project. We assist other groups such as the PAO, NHQ Staff with stuff and other projects that require some type of historical research. The historical stuff that you do see is only about 25% of what is actually done. I have had information that was supposed to be done for stories pulled for other stories. It happens to us just the same as it does to others.

Not all of our work is uniforms and badges (despite what other may see), we also work with historical apects of governence and board actions in support of research that is being done by other CAP Corporate Members. We are more than antique and dust collectors.

On the line of uniform related items. We have ideas passed by us from alot of people and the vast majority of them are shot down before it gets off the paper. Badges, ribbons, medals, and the such are consider alot and go through a vetting proces. Maybe and I mean maybe 5% makes it through. Even them most of those are killed as well. Not my choice buy that is the process. I am asked to design items and patches as well. We are asked for concept ideas to be produced and sometimes they go through and other times they die as well. For example:
At the last two NB's I was approached by leaders of national programs to design challenge coins, they wanted the designs within the next couple of hours that included heraldry information. As usual the historians responded and did our best just like other members would.

We have a VERY good list of the CAP Histrorical Collection because Col Bill Schell my predecessor was a phenomenal collector and cataloger. We know what we have and it is used when I try to find items. I do a cross check of what is in the collection so I dont waste CAP's money. It is safely stored and secured in a climnate controlled facility that only certain members have access to. There isw however a redundant system in place in the event that something happens to one of the primary members.

We have talked about (in passing) about how we could best use the collection to promote our history. We have considered donating the items to a "university" or somewhere like that but it is alot more difficult to do that than one would expect. It is alot more complicated because of the nature of the items. We have also begun looking into a central repository for the collection, the issue wuth that is the "custodian" of the collection and the access to the items. This is by no means as easy as it sounds. All of this has been kicked around alot. 

When I was asked to become the National Curator I accepted with a great deal of enthusiasm. I wanted to take a different approach than Bill. He concentrated on 100 variations of the same patch and I want to get our history out to the members. I know that I have had alot of conversations with members and my comments have been the same. "Our history has been setting on shelves, in closets, and attics and I wanted to change that. If you look at my Years Work that I posted you will see that I am very serious about my committment and I know the other historians are as well.

We have alot of opportunites in our program and there is no way to argue against that. I know and so do the other historians. I do have to say with 100% clarity that up until the recent years the historians have not had the support that we needed to make a difference. When Gen Courter took over we saw a HUGE difference in the level of professionalism that was given and expected of us. Being National Staff under her leadership has been great because she will work with me and help me in the tasks and challenges I face. She gives me straight forward honest opinions and expects the same from me. I do my best to do that. The historians we have are just as dedicated as every other member in uniform.

I applaud the efforts of others who are helping to move our history program forward. This is not a one person deal and we do try to work together as best as possible. For the most part we do a pretty good job. We also have troubles that are brought to us because of our work and our efforts. I think that others that are trying to bring CAP history to CAP are great. Believe it or not we also have people who work against us with their own personal agendas. I had an established professional relationship with a member for several years and worked with them in whatever capcity I could, that relationship was hampered by an outside person who launched personal attacks and seemingly won.

Just like every other member I have good feelings and not so good. I have to say that most of them are good. I do not have the same level of time and money as others to spend but that is the same thing that you may comeacross. Despite what some members think just because some of us are National Staff we are NOT corporate officer's and do not have any benefits as far a travel or expense. We are like every other member. I do get reimbursed for items I get for the collection and that is about it. I went to the NB in San Diego and had to pay for it all myself just like other members and I had been unemployed for almost a year but felt it was important for me to go.

I consider myself a professional first and a historian after, and I enjoy the work most of the time. Being a CAP Historian has been great and I feel just as important as any other job within CAP. We do not however get the facetime like others do. Our National Reports are optional at the NB and done if time permits. If I want to do a display at an event I have to find space. I have been fortunate for the most part at GAWG and SER Conferences and given space. I still pay the expenses associated just like every other member.

I have done an estimated 40 custom glass pieces for various CAP members at no cost. CAP paid for the glass most of the time and I did the blasting and etching myself. The labor was donated to CAP because I believe in the program. I have done this for CAP, CAPHF, and some outside purposes in support of CAP. Out of all of the people who appreciated it I would have to say the Gen Courter and Ed O'Brien have shown the greates level of appreciation. I did 17 smaller pieces this past Christmas for various members who have supported the historical program. I get no money for these and donate the crystal and labor because I believe in the program.

Most of my fellow members do not see the depth of time and energy dedicated to preserving and promoting CAP history. We have tremendous people such as Col Len Balscovich. Lt Col Axel Ostling, Lt Col Jeraldine Ostling, Lt Col Todd Engelman, 1st Lt Kacey Smith, Major Ed O'Brien and Lt Col Mark Hess, Lt Col Ray Lyon. These are just a few of the people that are current members. One of our fellow CAPTalkers BillB has donated countless items to me for the collection.

We are kind of like icebergs, you only see the top 10% of the effort but we work our tails off for CAP.

You may consider this long winded or just simply not needed....but look at this way...its history in the making.

Rant over and Soap Box is put away for now!!

Well Said Sir :clap: :clap: :clap:

[tarheel gumby]

By the way River, Those documents and photos that you speak of take time to scan into an appropriate format. I still am working on scanning personell authorizations from about 1954 through 1965, and I started before I went to the National Conference in San Diego.

[RiverAux]

Surely they do, but I'm talking about preserving the documents themselves.  Electronic storage is good and is the future of history (I like that phrase), but original paper documents and photos must go somewhere safe. 

[James Shaw]

Surely they do, but I'm talking about preserving the documents themselves.  Electronic storage is good and is the future of history (I like that phrase), but original paper documents and photos must go somewhere safe.

This is being done as we write. We have cabinets full of pictures that are being scanned and documents that are being scanned as well. I have taken hundreds of pics and documents and scanned them. I put them in a PDF format so they can be studied and shared without having to "touch" them againunless absolutely necessary.

Last year I burned and distributed over 200 CD's to the wings and regions with key scans of documents. I also distributed over 100 cd's at the NB with 52 music tracks from converted 45rpm and 33rpm's. The historical group also handed out around 60 cd's of the Flying Minute Men pdf book for download pusposes to the wings and regions.

Just a couple of the "short projects" I am working on:

A complete scan of ALL monographs and collectors catalogs to be put on one CD so they can be distributed, as well as some that have never been published before and discovered in the archives.

Around 12 B/W movies and commercials converted from 16MM to DVD as one collection.

[BillB]

Are those 16mm films transferred to DVD available to members? Cost? They would be good for Squadrons to use in a historical class for cadets.

[Lois]

On the subject of historians.  I need a picture of an early CAP member.  Clear back in days they were flying missions up and down the Mississippi looking for subs.  I also have trouble getting any results from the historians.  Please help me find a good picture.

[Smithsonia]

Lois;
There is an entire collection dedicated to the Coastal Patrol Bases.
Go here and rummage around.
http://forum.teamcap.org/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=1790
There is every coastal patrol base in this gallery. Click on the various insignias and chances are that you will find what you are looking for from the numerous pictures contained in this portion of the website.

These resources are provided to any member however it is the expectation of the historians that you spend a modicum of time to find what
you are looking for. In this thread there are the resources you seek clearly named and outlined. www.TeamCap.org is a good centralized source.

Most of the complaints I get from members looking for information is due, not to a lack of information or resources, but a lack of initiative to do some probing. If you have read this thread and explored a bit on your own... the information was right there all along. In this case there are 300 photos in the www.TeamCap.org Coastal Bases collection from which you can choose whatever you need.

Google: CAP Coastal bases and these sites come up quickly.
http://www.centennialofflight.gov/essay/Air_Power/CAP/AP32.htm
http://www.americainwwii.com/stories/guarding.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Civil_Air_Patrol
http://history.nhq.cap.gov/

If you google images under Civil Air Patrol Coast Patrol/Bases it will display another 1000 plus images for you.
http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&source=imghp&biw=1296&bih=622&q=Civil+Air+Patrol+Coastal+Patrol&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=
Good Luck Lois.

[YakYak]

For what it is worth, I think it is a grave mistake to think of a history outreach program only as a history program.   The CAP's WWII history, particularly the subchasing missions, is an excellent way to inititally grab people's attenion.  The professionals call this a "news peg"  or "hook."  It is what captures people's attention initially.  From there,  you can roll forward or expand outward to cover more ground.  This is especially true because the WWII volunteer mentality still inspirits the CAP, and CAP's present day missions grew out of WWII missions in a fairly direct line. 

I believe a professionally designed history outreach could make a substantial contribution to CAP's total outreach.  I believe it could create public awareness, trust and goodwill.  It could help with recruiting.  It involves the CAP with its communities in new ways.

When I talk about a "professionally designed outreach,"  I do not necessarily mean this has to be accomplished by someone who is paid.  I am talking about a level of competence more than anything.

[James Shaw]

For what it is worth, I think it is a grave mistake to think of a history outreach program only as a history program. 

I Agree!! None of the historians that I have had the pleasure of knowing has ever viewed our history as strictly an outreach program. As stated in an earlier post we have been able to get more support recently than in the past. This is a foundation to build on and we will continue to do that.

When I talk about a "professionally designed outreach,"  I do not necessarily mean this has to be accomplished by someone who is paid.  I am talking about a level of competence more than anything.

We have a great volunteer historical staff that I feel does a great job. I feel that we as a whole are making strides to bring the CAP History program forward. This is not going to happen over night or within a few months. We do not have the benefit of unlimited time to devote to CAP just like the vast majority of the members on this board cant do that, we are no different. We have to work with eachother as best as we can as a Team and that makes a big difference. General Courter and Col Blascovich have provided great leadership in that respect because they want us to work as a team and model that behavior very well.

People can define our cempetence in any way they choose. I can't control that and won't attempt to. I won't base my worth on someone's opinion of me. I do however feel that people have more competence in you when you do things the way they want you to, and less in you when you don't. I have the utmost trust and confidence in the people I work with and work for. To me it is being part of the team. I know that if Gen Courter or Col Blascovich had an issue with my work than they would not hesitate to tell me. They have respect for their people and the work they do and treat them as they expect to be treated themselves, like Team Members.

[AdAstra]

Jim makes a good argument for the team approach. It hasn't always been so. About five years ago, I was enthusiastically trying to get support or approval for a historical monograph I was researching. Letters and e-mails were politely ignored. When I brought it up at a historian workshop, the attitude was "Not invented here" and literally: "Send us all your artifacts and documents and we'll safeguard them for the future."

I still find it amusing that the many recent projects to record CAP history have been initiated by local members or come from non-CAP sources: CAP Historical Foundation, From Maine to Mexico, the Flying Minuteman Project, Team CAP archives and research center, etc.

This discussion demonstrates that there are interested (and I dare say qualified) local members willing to help. "Special Advisor to the National Commander" is a relatively new concept. Most advisors that I know of have organized committees to assist them. For example, the Professional Development Advisory Committee, chaired by the Special Advisor, includes the region directors of professional development. I was invited to join a temporary committee to help develop Level One and Squadron Leadership School. The temporary, project-based method has been used elsewhere, and can be directly applied to historical projects.

What can we do to assist the larger CAP history program? What can the National Historian do to support us locally? It's not "them" against "us", or national against local. We need to work together, each contributing our strengths, to preserve our past, record the present, and pass this along to current and future members. This is, if you will, our legacy.