iPad/iPhone as Pilot Tool

[Paradoc]

Let me help save you some money.

DRM.  Feature poor.  Carrier-lock (though that is changing). No Flash.  Itunes. And the #1 reason - Steve Jobs seems to know better what you need than you do.

After the tablets from CES start hitting the stores, by this time next year we will all be wondering what the fuss about the iPad was.

Amazing.  Apple-haters.  There is one in every crowd, and doesn't take them long to show up.

Eclipse, this post didn't ask "do you like Apple or Android better?".  It was a post outlining the usefulness of some specific hardware and software I've found very helpful for CAP missions.  It would appear you've probably never used an iPad, or any of the software I or others have mentioned for the iOS.  So how does your personal dislike for Apple mean other CAP pilots shouldn't evaluate it for themselves?

Eclipse, it is obvious you know more than the apx 20 million people who bought iPad's in the first year they were available.  Apple currently controls 87% of the worldwide tablet market.  People have downloaded 10 Billion (yes Billion with a "B") applications for the iOS.  Yes, android will chip away at that.  Competition is great, and I hope the android developers will create some great software for aviation too.  Although developers for Android are already complaining about the huge burden of having too many different hardware versions making it more difficult to develop for than the iOS.  If it was so easy to create a tablet people actually wanted to use, how come nobody else did it before Apple?

So, before you jump in and start blasting Apple... why don't you check out these particular apps and then come back and tell us your informed opinion.  Or, if you are so knowledgeable about what is available for android now, why don't you post a list of similar apps for android devices.  I'd love to know what you think is out there that is better than what has been listed here so far.

Oh... and I'll bet you $20 that "by this time next year" Apple iPad will still control >50% of the tablet market.  Android will most likely succeed and Apple's market share will inevitably drop but it has a LONG way to go to make up Apple's complete domination in the tablet market that they created.

[N Harmon]

Why do Apple people get so bent out of shape when someone suggests Apple products might not be the best option?

[Paradoc]

Why do Apple people get so bent out of shape when someone suggests Apple products might not be the best option?

I have absolutely no problem with people not liking Apple, or people who love microsoft, android, palm, or any other company/platform.  I do have a problem with people who post ill-informed and off-topic replies.  Trolling is trolling... no matter how you look at it.  Doesn't matter if you have 10,000+ posts to your name.

[davidsinn]

Why do Apple people get so bent out of shape when someone suggests Apple products might not be the best option?

I have absolutely no problem with people not liking Apple, or people who love microsoft, android, palm, or any other company/platform.  I do have a problem with people who post ill-informed and off-topic replies.  Trolling is trolling... no matter how you look at it.  Doesn't matter if you have 10,000+ posts to your name.

Ill informed? The guy is a 13.5 out of 10 on the geek scale. It is on topic to point out the failures and cheaper alternatives to a platform.

[Paradoc]

My apologies.  On rereading my original reply to Eclipse it reads more strongly than I had intended.  I would delete it if I could (but doesn't look like this forum allows that).  It isn't any better to be a 'fan-boy' than a 'hater', and there are those on all sides of the software industry.

But my question for Eclipse remains... if you have a list of similar software for the Android or Win-mo platforms, I'd love to hear it.  My experience is obviously with the iPad/iPhone.  And if you have a chance to check out any of the software I and others have mentioned... check it out!  It might convince you that the 20 million people who have bought iPads and 10 Billion iOS software downloads are onto something despite your list of negatives.

Even Sportys has gotten in on the game... I got an email from them last night announcing their new iPad app http://sportys.com/PilotShop/product/16198

Oh... and my friendly wager of $20 is still on.  If by this time next year the iPad everyone is wondering what the iPad was about, I'll send you a $20 or buy you a beer and you can show me your android tablet 

[meganite]

Let me help save you some money.

DRM.  Feature poor.  Carrier-lock (though that is changing). No Flash.  Itunes. And the #1 reason - Steve Jobs seems to know better what you need than you do.

After the tablets from CES start hitting the stores, by this time next year we will all be wondering what the fuss about the iPad was.

Amazing.  Apple-haters.  There is one in every crowd, and doesn't take them long to show up.

For pretty much everything Eclipse said, I have to agree with him. He was just pointing out the cons of the system, when others had just pointed out the pros, so at least we have both sides of the picture now

As an independent game developer, I've also been around quite a few "Apple-haters" ... the fact that it doesn't use Flash, and the fact that sometimes apps seem to get vetoed for no good reason... and I've heard horror stories from developers. However, after seeing how much the system can do with regards to aviation (and game development... Angry Birds and Cut the Rope), I've lost a lot of my Apple-hater mentality. The iPad actually has a lot going for it, and the interface was surprisingly tangible somehow. (I don't really know what I was expecting other than that the lack of physical keys to press seemed like it would cause some frustrations. I'm not sure exactly how to explain why it's better than a normal computer interface, but I think that style of touchscreen is the way of the future, and people are going to expect that kind of responsiveness, accuracy, and control from other new systems.)

I guess the most important message from all this news for me is that the market is changing, so what seems like the best tool now might not be so in the future. I'm excited about the systems that use Android, for sure. The potential of having more reliable website display (including Flash) appeals to me. There are already a lot of tools out there, like Skyvector, that are free online. I'm still not going to buy either an iPad or other system like this anytime very soon, because I have zero dollars, but it's good to know all these features are out there. Still, I'm definitely considering this kind of hardware as a replacement for my 10lb 5 year old laptop. (Why would anyone get a screen that flips open when you can just use a touchscreen?)

Sorry I guess this was kind of off-topic. Yay technology geeks.

[JoeTomasone]

And the #1 reason - Steve Jobs seems to know better what you need than you do.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2011/01/trojan_steals_c.html?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=pulsenews

Doesn't seem so dumb when you consider this.

[meganite]

Yeah, for what it's worth, that's exactly the problem that Windows has... way too open to everything.
But Steve Jobs has vetoed many more apps for much worse reasons than that they are security issues. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I am sure I could come up with a list, if given time to consult my game design friends.

[JoeTomasone]

Yeah, for what it's worth, that's exactly the problem that Windows has... way too open to everything.
But Steve Jobs has vetoed many more apps for much worse reasons than that they are security issues. I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I am sure I could come up with a list, if given time to consult my game design friends.

To be sure, Apple has deservedly taken their lumps - but then, lets remember that they blazed the trail, essentially, and you can expect some speed bumps from time to time.   They have improved a lot of things since the beginning.

I'm a big believer in "use what works for you".   For me, it's Windows on the desktop, Linux for the server, Apple for the phone and tablet.  <shrug>    Took a look at the Galaxy Tab the other day and wasn't terribly impressed.   The OS seems quite sluggish.

[N Harmon]

I'm a big believer in "use what works for you".   For me, it's Windows on the desktop, Linux for the server, Apple for the phone and tablet.

For me it's Linux on the desktop, Windows and FreeBSD for the server, and Apple for my ipod.

[Paradoc]

Oh, I forgot one of my FAVORITE iOS apps for CAP Pilots:  Genus Scan
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/genius-scan/id377672876?mt=8
It lets you use the camera on the iPhone to scan documents, and then turn them into PDF files.  Does a great job cropping and enhancing the image.  I know there are lots of programs for iOS (and presumably for android, etc) that do this.  Some even do OCR "Optical Character Recognition".  But this is a GREAT thing for CAP pilots because you can snap a quick shot of your fuel receipts and upload them directly to WIMRS.  No more lost/crumpled/delayed receipts.  Very handy!  (Note: Won't work with iPad until the new iPad with camera comes out in a couple of months 

Aero News Net also has a writeup on Foreflight and some other iPad apps for aviation at:
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?contentBlockId=d30a5f5b-3071-4737-8f67-d022ccea6793
Their summary of Fore Flight: "ForeFlight just plain wows us -- on the iPhone or the iPad."

Cheers,
Jim

[meganite]

Well, personally I'm still a fan of Analog

http://broadside.net/07082032.htm

(You know, like at those SAREXes where all the computers are tied up or running slow or other SNAFUs happen with technology? I'll be there, with the forms, printed out. No, I didn't bring enough for everybody, sorry. What am I, Logistics?)

[Mustang]

My gf just got a Nook Color from Barnes and Noble, and of course the first thing I did was throw on some approach plates and enroute charts from the AeroNav website to evaluate it as an Electronic Flight Bag, and all I can say is WOW!!!  It's not as robust as Foreflight, nor does the Nook have a GPS receiver for overlaying your position on the chart, but it is still supremely useful and far better than paper charts. And at $250 for the device (which under the hood is a relatively standard Android tablet), it's a heck of a deal.


Just another data point.

[FARRIER]

Well, personally I'm still a fan of Analog

http://broadside.net/07082032.htm

(You know, like at those SAREXes where all the computers are tied up or running slow or other SNAFUs happen with technology? I'll be there, with the forms, printed out. No, I didn't bring enough for everybody, sorry. What am I, Logistics?)

[meganite]

Well, this is interesting news...

http://www.padgadget.com/2011/02/14/faa-authorizes-jet-charter-to-use-jeppesen-mobile-iPad-app/

[ProdigalJim]

Well, this is interesting news...

http://www.padgadget.com/2011/02/14/faa-authorizes-jet-charter-to-use-jeppesen-mobile-iPad-app/

They (Jepp) just came my offices this afternoon to brief us on it...a very impressive effort. Cool enough that you can use it in all phases of flight, but to my jaded eye, even more impressive that they were able to get FAA to watch it, evaluate it, and bless it in three months. They were pretty excited about the possibilities for making the iPad the single device you need in the cockpit to replace charts, checklists, planning tools, dispatch information, scheduling, you name it.

ProdigalJim

[meganite]

They (Jepp) just came my offices this afternoon to brief us on it...a very impressive effort. Cool enough that you can use it in all phases of flight, but to my jaded eye, even more impressive that they were able to get FAA to watch it, evaluate it, and bless it in three months. They were pretty excited about the possibilities for making the iPad the single device you need in the cockpit to replace charts, checklists, planning tools, dispatch information, scheduling, you name it.

ProdigalJim

Yeah, really. And, as someone else pointed out, it's much cheaper than other pilot tools available.

[lzu2]

IMHO, the iPad is a great tool for aviation. The internal GPS has reliability issues in some cockpits, but just for charts alone, it's a wonderful tool to have. And when I'm back on the ground, it's really nice to have access to the internet for weather updates and email.

I am sorry that Apple decided against including Flash support, but other tablets will soon fill that void. For now, I'm a fan of the iPad, but a year from now, I may have moved on to a non-Apple tablet.

- Russ, GA112

[JoeTomasone]

I am sorry that Apple decided against including Flash support, but other tablets will soon fill that void. For now, I'm a fan of the iPad, but a year from now, I may have moved on to a non-Apple tablet.

I understand why they did.   Flash is proprietary (albeit near universally accepted), whereas HTML5 is an open standard.   Flash also opens up attack vectors for malware that HTML5 does not.     Apple is basically drawing a line in the sand to try to get more people on board with HTML5.    Yes, they are using something akin to a bully pulpit to drive the point, but the point itself is sound. 

A lot is made over how "open" Android is versus iOS, but in many ways, this can be a benefit as well.    The chance of installing malware from the App Store approaches zero, where there have already been reports of Android-based malware that has been in the Android Store.  (http://www.google.com/search?btnG=1&pws=0&q=android+store+malware)

[lzu2]

Hi, Joe. Yeah, I've heard that argument before, but I personally can't agree with it. I think Steve Jobs really has a vendetta against Flash. I've never had any type of security problem on any of my computers due to watching Flash content. Personally, I'd rather make the decision on what I want to consume rather than have a manufacturer arbitrarily try to "protect me from myself". Just my opinion and I know everyone doesn't share it. Good Flying!