"The CAP Polo shirt is NOT authorized for this activity."

[Eclipse]

On topic,
If you don't have the minimum required uniform by 39-1.  You have already failed SLS, and any other course that follows it.

Follow the rules: get the course credit.

CAP stands nothing to gain by allowing those that do not follow the Regs to progress.  Plain and Simple.

Maybe if it is required CAP should change the FAQ on the website because there is a question there about do you have to wear and uniform and it say you could be required to for some activities not that you will have any basic uniform.

The FAQ is not a regulation - it is a generalization of the expectations members will encounter.   An actual reading of the applicable regulations indicates that all senior members are required to equip themselves with the aviator whites, and further that unit and activity commanders may prescribe or prohibit any uniform combination as they see fit.

Nowhere in any FAQ or regulation will you find any indication that senior members will ever be issued uniforms or other equipment.

[PHall]

On topic,
If you don't have the minimum required uniform by 39-1.  You have already failed SLS, and any other course that follows it.

Follow the rules: get the course credit.

CAP stands nothing to gain by allowing those that do not follow the Regs to progress.  Plain and Simple.

Maybe if it is required CAP should change the FAQ on the website because there is a question there about do you have to wear and uniform and it say you could be required to for some activities not that you will have any basic uniform.

The FAQ is not a regulation - it is a generalization of the expectations members will encounter.   An actual reading of the applicable regulations indicates that all senior members are required to equip themselves with the aviator whites, and further that unit and activity commanders may prescribe or prohibit any uniform combination as they see fit.

Nowhere in any FAQ or regulation will you find any indication that senior members will ever be issued uniforms or other equipment.

All Senior Members? Or just the one's who can't/won't wear the Air Force Style uniform.

[Eclipse]

All Senior Members? Or just the one's who can't/won't wear the Air Force Style uniform.

((*sigh*))

All seniors are required to equip themselves with the "Minimum Basic Service Uniform" (BSU).

If they are unable or unwilling to wear it they are required to equip themselves with the "CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform" (DBU).  Another alternative not mentioned in the current version of 39-1 is the "Corporate Service Uniform".  The CSU meets the spirit and intent
of 39-1's uniform requirement, but as it is not mentioned in the document, someone looking to waste breath or text could make the argument it does not meet the minimum uniform requirement as defined.

The golf shirt is an alternative that may be allowed by unit and activity commanders, but does not meet the minimum uniform requirements in either spirit or intent.

(Better?).

[Custer]

OK seriously, whats the deal with the clock references?

[Dracosbane]

A timer referencing the locking of a thread.

IBTL

[SarDragon]

OK seriously, whats the deal with the clock references?

It's my way of hinting that a thread has reached the end of whatever usefulness it might have had, and the time is ticking down until it gets locked.

Hey, Mike Squad, can we pop these three posts out into a separate thread?

[lordmonar]

Four pages!  Really!

It is not rocket science.....you wear the UOD the director tells you to.  End of story.

Read the Frigging Manual...what unifrom we MUST buy.

Let's not get into anyone elses chilly Guys!

Take it easy Francis.

[Major Carrales]

Here is some uniform philosophy...

USAF and CAP CORP uniforms have utility at their center

Mess Dress for USAF Style Formal, Tux
Service Coat for business formal, CAP Blazer for the same purpose.
USAF Service Dress *long and short sleeve, CAP White Grays
OD Green Flight Suit, Blue Flight Suit/Golf Shirt
BDUs, BBDUs

All that is countered if the Uniform of the day is mandated.  This is CAP, one signed up for this.  Wear the UOD or don't go.  If one doesn't have them, barrow the uniform combo if you must.

[NIN]

To borrow a bit of a meme from Mike's earlier post in the Uniform & Awards section, I present this, which I think is quite frankly dead center on topic to both this particular discussion, and about 94.5% of all the uniform "discussions" held here on CAPTalk.

(Caution, language alert.  Minor use of "the brown word" in here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNQf08Kxsw

Now go and paint your Spitfires yellow, eh?

[AirAux]

Actually an obese individual looks no better in a white tight shirt than they do in a blue tight shirt and with some body shapes it is impossible to find shirts that fit properly.  At least the golf shirt is more comfortable to wear for said individuals.  Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership, whereas both fatties and skinnies wear the golf shirt, making it more acceptable and less irritating to fatties.  We need a universal "UNIFORM"..

[Eclipse]

Actually an obese individual looks no better in a white tight shirt than they do in a blue tight shirt and with some body shapes it is impossible to find shirts that fit properly.  At least the golf shirt is more comfortable to wear for said individuals.

Both non-concur and irrelevant - a tank top and flip flops would be more comfortable for all of us, however the point of the whites is a professional, business-like appearance.  Also, last I checked the majority of our members are actually employed and engaged in activities outside CAP.  Some even own clothing that is neither a uniform item nor jogging pants, and somehow find a way to replenish their supplies when necessary.  Except for a very, very small minority, there is no issue finding clothing that fits out members, especially when you are talking about a white shirt, gray pants and a sport coat.

I doubt many of the "you can't make me crowd" would consider wearing a golf shirt to a wedding, funeral, or formal business meeting, but have no issue whatsoever with their appearance at meetings and missions, yet they wonder why we have image and attitude issues both internally and externally.

Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership...

Red Herring.
Beyond the few vocal members on this board who want to make hay regarding the issue of military badges, there aren't enough members who have ever even considered the issue to make that statement even plausible, and further, in a CAP context, it isn't even true, since regarding badges and insignia that have application internal to CAP, the uniforms are virtually identical.

The truth of the matter is that far too many members have never even read 39-1, including sitting CC's, let alone understand it and heed it (the ICL issues not withstanding), and then get defensive when they encounter activities who's PIC have read the documents and enforce the mandates.

Anything after that is excuse or rationalization.  One big delimiter of maturity is how you react when you either find yourself to misunderstand a situation or don't get your way.  Adults adapt and overcome, and learn for next time, children stomp their feet and say "...You can't make me."  I would never consider holding a member responsible for something they were never told or exposed to, but once the facts are on the table, you can't just pretend to not know.

(NIN, those video are brilliant.)

[Nolan Teel]

This is why I hate the polo shirt.  None the less it is up to the Activity Director/Commander/IC to dictate what uniform will be worn.

[Custer]

Both non-concur and irrelevant - a tank top and flip flops would be more comfortable for all of us

My initial reaction was to say I would not be caught dead dressed like that - but dead is the only way you could dress me that way.

Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership...

But the wear policy for the polo shirt is exactly the same  and it looks even less like a uniform.

Want some real fun?  The USAF now has an "informal " uniform.  It is a navy blue polo with khaki pants.  Put an entry in 39-1 saying you may wear Khaki pants with the polo shirt - but as it is a USAF uniform combination - you have to meet weight & grooming standards - otherwise you have to wear grey.

[wuzafuzz]

Actually an obese individual looks no better in a white tight shirt than they do in a blue tight shirt and with some body shapes it is impossible to find shirts that fit properly.  At least the golf shirt is more comfortable to wear for said individuals.  Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership, whereas both fatties and skinnies wear the golf shirt, making it more acceptable and less irritating to fatties.  We need a universal "UNIFORM"..

I've seen folks of all body types wearing the aviator whites.  In fact I'm planning to buy a white shirt even though I am slim enough to wear the Air Force style uniform.  I like the idea of not having to wear a hat.  There needn't be a stigma attached to the aviator whites.

[Patterson]

Want some real fun?  The USAF now has an "informal " uniform.  It is a navy blue polo with khaki pants.  Put an entry in 39-1 saying you may wear Khaki pants with the polo shirt - but as it is a USAF uniform combination - you have to meet weight & grooming standards - otherwise you have to wear grey.

Actually CAP has that uniform.  It is for the VSAF Program (If it still exists).  Also, for a while now, that has been the casual dress of our National Headquarters folks.  However, CAP buys its employees different color polo shirts, which is a nice perk.  Very few at NHQ wear business attire these days (unless they have a meeting etc.)

[RVT]

I've seen folks of all body types wearing the aviator whites.  In fact I'm planning to buy a white shirt even though I am slim enough to wear the Air Force style uniform.  I like the idea of not having to wear a hat.  There needn't be a stigma attached to the aviator whites.

Its what I'll be in tomorrow night.  I.m 5' 11" and 174 Lb, but I also work in a field where I have no contact with the public, and so often do not have a regulation haircut.

No beard, I even met USAF weight standards - and still don't look right for wearing blues.  Personally I think aviator whites are very convenient - I just hope they stay reasonably clean.  We meet in an older fairly dusty building and a white shirt may not even survive a 2 hour meeting without needing a wash.

[coudano]

The grey slacks / white aviator shirt, is for those of us who do not meet the weight requirments for wear of the air force uniforms.

Actually it is auth for anyone.  No seniors at my squadron, including me, and some others who also meet weight and grooming, and those who work with our cadets, wear the af style uniform.  We are a corp only shop.  It is good unit culture, it is good for morale.  It in no way affects my ability do do one heck of a fine job as a dcoc.

That said, i agree, the aviator is the equiv of the basic service uniform, and it is wholly appropriate to require it for something like sls

[AirDX]

It in no way affects my ability do do one heck of a fine job as a dcoc.

:clap:

Thanks for that!