"The CAP Polo shirt is NOT authorized for this activity."

[Swampfox]

I got an e-mail about the upcoming Squadron Leadership School and Corporate Learning Course and am told I cannot attend (I have a beard and require the CAP polo shirt). 

Is this a normal restriction?  Is this restriction allowed by CAP policy or did someone just make up this restriction without regard to CAP policy?

Thanks,

S. Morgan

[rjfoxx]

You can wear the white aviator shirt / grey slacks combo.  Just because you have a beard does not restrict you from wearing this uniform.

[Eclipse]

Yes, this is a normal UOD for a professional development activity.

No you do not "require" the golf shirt, there are at least two other corporate options - the white/gray pants or the white/blue pants combos.
You would normally have the option of civilian business attire for these types of activities as well.

[Swampfox]

You can wear the white aviator shirt / grey slacks combo.  Just because you have a beard does not restrict you from wearing this uniform.

Thanks but not only do I have a beard but my weight is above the limit.  Any other uniforms allowed?  Thanks!

S. Morgan

[Larry Mangum]

You can wear the white aviator shirt / grey slacks combo.  Just because you have a beard does not restrict you from wearing this uniform.

Thanks but not only do I have a beard but my weight is above the limit.  Any other uniforms allowed?  Thanks!

S. Morgan

The grey slacks / white aviator shirt, is for those of us who do not meet the weight requirments for wear of the air force uniforms.

[Eclipse]

You can wear the white aviator shirt / grey slacks combo.  Just because you have a beard does not restrict you from wearing this uniform.

Thanks but not only do I have a beard but my weight is above the limit.  Any other uniforms allowed?  Thanks!

...the white/gray pants...

[dwb]

I'm sure the blazer combination would also be acceptable.

[lordmonar]

I'm sure the blazer combination would also be acceptable.

That is assuming they have not specified a UOD (other than no polos).

[CommGeek]

What if I'm a poor CAP member and only have a polo?

[EMT-83]

Save your pennies and buy the proper shirt.

I hear this complaint from my members from time to time. Sorry, but there are certain expenses to be incurred as a member. No one says that you need to spend hundreds of dollars on uniform items. A pair of gray slacks, which can be worn outside of CAP, and an aviator shirt which can be bought on-line for about 25 bucks, will do nicely.

[Eclipse]

Save your pennies and buy the proper shirt.

I hear this complaint from my members from time to time. Sorry, but there are certain expenses to be incurred as a member. No one says that you need to spend hundreds of dollars on uniform items. A pair of gray slacks, which can be worn outside of CAP, and an aviator shirt which can be bought on-line for about 25 bucks, will do nicely.

Or wear civilian business attire.

As a matter of regulation, all Senior members who do not wear the USAF blues are required to have the corporate whites.  The golf shirt is not the minimum basic uniform.

[spacecommand]

Contrary to some popular belief, the polo shirt is not the basic uniform. 

The basic uniform CAP members must maintain is either:
short sleeve light blue shirt / blue pants or short sleeve white aviator shirt, grey pants combinations.  The White aviator shirt/grey pants combo is for anyone who chooses not to wear the AF uniform,  or does not meet AF uniform regs (weight/grooming etc).

39-1 page 8:

a. Minimum Basic Service Uniform. Male: Short-sleeve, light blue shirt; dark blue trousers; blue
belt/silver buckle, blue flight cap; black shoes, and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch,
collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight cap emblem. Female: Short-sleeve light
blue blouse; Dark blue skirt or slacks; flight cap; neutral nylon hose; black shoes; black handbag.
Insignia: CAP nameplate, shoulder patch, collar/lapel insignia, embroidered epaulet sleeve, and flight
cap emblem.
b. CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform (senior members only). Male: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt;
gray trousers; black belt; black shoes and socks. Insignia: CAP nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.
Female: Short-sleeve, white aviator shirt; gray slacks or skirt; plain black shoes. Insignia: CAP
nameplate, embroidered epaulet sleeve.

[CommGeek]

I hear it all the time....  I tell them not to go out to dinner with the guys after the meeting and use that cash for a shirt! 

[SarDragon]

Yes, this is a normal UOD for a professional development activity.

No you do not "require" the golf shirt, there are at least two other corporate options - the white/gray pants or the white/blue pants combos.
You would normally have the option of civilian business attire for these types of activities as well.

He sez he's a fuzzie, like me. That means the white/blue pants combo is a no-go.

[spacecommand]

misread, ignore this.

[lordmonar]

What if I'm a poor CAP member and only have a polo?

Then you are in violation of 39-1.

[CommGeek]

Am I?   39-1 shows the polo....

[SarDragon]

What if I'm a poor CAP member and only have a polo?

Then you are in violation of 39-1.

"Only" is the key word here. As noted above, the aviator shirt combo is the minimum required uniform for fatties/fuzzies. If you don't have that combo available, you are technically in violation. 

[CommGeek]

since when did they remove the polo as a uniform?

[spacecommand]

They didn't, however it (the Polo) is not the CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform.  39-1 Page 8 as referenced above.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Yes, CAP members should have the basic uniform. I'd not be surprised to learn Swampfox bought the polo because that's what all / most / some of the senior members in his home squadron wear. Personally, I'd rather see someone sitting in my class in the polo rather than "business attire". Considering the number of seniors who never complete Level II, I'd lean toward not putting barriers to attendance.

[A.Member]

"Only" is the key word here. As noted above, the aviator shirt combo is the minimum required uniform for fatties/fuzzies. If you don't have that combo available, you are technically in violation. 

No.  The white/gray combo is the minimum required uniform for those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards.  Again, see 39-1, page 8 "CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform" as referenced previously. 

Before any member buys a golf shirt, they need to buy the basic required uniform.  It's that simple.

[Custer]

What if I'm a poor CAP member and only have a polo?

http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/prostores/servlet/-strse-1212/EMT-Short-Sleeve-White/Detail

This shirt, with rank slides and a nameplate from vanguard, costs LESS than the polo shirt.  You can look like the lead guitarist from ZZTOP and wear it.  The rest of the uniform is the same as the polo, so you already have it.

It is my personal uniform of choice even though I am within weight standards and do not have a beard.  I work in a medical lab and look like the guy who introduces "Robot Chicken".  If you've ever seen that show, thats not exactly a mil spec haircut.

[SarDragon]

"Only" is the key word here. As noted above, the aviator shirt combo is the minimum required uniform for fatties/fuzzies. If you don't have that combo available, you are technically in violation. 

No.  The white/gray combo is the minimum required uniform for those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards.  Again, see 39-1, page 8 "CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform" as referenced previously. 

Before any member buys a golf shirt, they need to buy the basic required uniform.  It's that simple.

Help me out here.

How is what you said different from what I said? Doesn't "fatties/fuzzies" equate with "those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards [sic]", in spite of its perhaps pejorative nature?

I seriously don't understand what you're getting at.

[RVT]

I got an e-mail about the upcoming Squadron Leadership School and Corporate Learning Course and am told I cannot attend (I have a beard and require the CAP polo shirt).

You are REQUIRED to have a white aviator shirt uniform.  Don't panic, the shirt, rank slides and nameplate add up to less than $30.  You can add badges & ribbons later if you like, or not, its up to you.

You may OPTIONALLY PURCHASE AND USE:
Blue Flight Suit
Blue Jump Suit
Blue BDU
Blazer uniform
and
any of the three polo shirt uniforms.

However NONE of those are required.

[A.Member]

Help me out here.

How is what you said different from what I said? Doesn't "fatties/fuzzies" equate with "those that don't conform to weight and grooming stndards [sic]", in spite of its perhaps pejorative nature?

I seriously don't understand what you're getting at.

Oops.  Mea culpa.  I'm the one that mis-read your previous post.  We're on the same page.

(p.s. that's why I try to stay out of uniform discussions! )

[RVT]

Especially with senior squadrons in California - a lot of new members think the default uniform set is a polo shirt and a flight suit.

You go to a typical squadron meeting and that's all you see - so regardless of what it says in the documentation they are given - its what everybody else is wearing so its what they also get.  And has been said - most commanders are happy to have them in any uniform at all.

[spacecommand]

At my unit, virtually all the seniors show up in the golf shirt to regular meetings (I haven't been in long enough to see what they wear during the Winter), so I went along and purchased a golf shirt (and got a AF blue shirt as well), however when  promotion night/awards night comes around, they all show up in either corporate blazer or AF uniforms, so I know they own both sets.   I think there are folks who think the golf shirt is the "working/everyday uniform" (and is the only basic uniform you need) and the white shirt/blazer/AF uniform is only for more formal occasions.  I don't mind the golf shirt, but I'm not a big fan of it either.

[Custer]

At my unit, virtually all the seniors show up in the golf shirt to regular meetings (I haven't been in long enough to see what they wear during the winter)

Probably the same golf shirt   There are three actual uniform jackets you can wear over it but the regs let you wear civilian jackets too.

[Gung Ho]

Guess the best thing to do is not go to the training if you don't have the required uniform and they don't issue you one. If they want you to go to this training they will change the rules or give you the right one. Seems to me a polo would be better then casual wear

[Eclipse]

Guess the best thing to do is not go to the training if you don't have the required uniform and they don't issue you one. If they want you to go to this training they will change the rules or give you the right one. Seems to me a polo would be better then casual wear

Or...

...instead of responding like a 6th grader when you don't get your way, actually read the regulations and understand the commitment you are making when you join a professionalized volunteer organization.

Further, as I have already mentioned, most PD activities allow for the wear of civilian business attire in lieu of the whites.  If a dress shirt to go with the gray slacks you already have is out of your reach financially, you probably have more important places to spend your time and money than CAP.

[NIN]

Guess the best thing to do is not go to the training if you don't have the required uniform and they don't issue you one. If they want you to go to this training they will change the rules or give you the right one. Seems to me a polo would be better then casual wear

Its the same as not wearing BDUs to a dining out. There is a specified uniform, and the polo combo ain't it.

I really wish commanders would wrap their skulls around the idea that there is a minimum basic uniform (both corporate and AF-style) and stop telling people that they can just buy the polo shirt and they're "all set." No, you're not.

[A.Member]

...instead of responding like a 6th grader when you don't get your way, actually read the regulations and understand the commitment you are making when you join a professionalized volunteer organization...

...If a dress shirt to go with the gray slacks you already have is out of your reach financially, you probably have more important places to spend your time and money than CAP.

:clap:  This...and only this. 

The regs say members must have a basic uniform and very clearly define that uniform.  Not sure why this is even being debated.

[Custer]

Further, as I have already mentioned, most PD activities allow for the wear of civilian business attire in lieu of the whites.  If a dress shirt to go with the gray slacks you already have is out of your reach financially, you probably have more important places to spend your time and money than CAP.

White shirt from aforementioned website =      $9.99
Rank epaulets (not even this if you are SM)= $7.70
CAP grey nameplate                                         $3.30
TOTAL=                                           $21

CHEAPEST Vanguard Polo =              $22
======================================
Add Wings or any other badge             + $3.30
Same wings on the vanguard polo       +$22.00

Aviator shirt with wings and 2 rows of ribbons = $35
Personalised vanguard polo  most members wear = $44


The trick is don't get the aviator shirt from Vanguard.  Its a vanilla standard design available from a hundred other sources - and you can get it online for $10 - and in sizes the polo doesn't come in.

The aviator shirt uniform is cheaper either way.

[Persona non grata]

Polo shirts suck.......  I prefer the golf shirt 

[SarDragon]

Polo shirts suck.......  I prefer the golf shirt

Please explain to us the difference between a golf shirt and a polo shirt.

[caphornbuckle]

If I remember correctly (and someone correct me if they know different) the golf shirt combination was first designed as an alternative to flight suits for pilots.  This would give CAP pilots a little more comfort and more of a "corporate" look when flying in CAP aircraft as for the "military" look of flight suits (As well as cheaper from what I can tell).  Although now the golf shirt is being used by all members regardless of flight status.

For the sake of argument using what I have said, the golf shirt is an alternative to the flight suit and would not be considered a uniform for corporate training where flight suits are also not authorized.  Just my two cents.

[SarDragon]

[RiverAux]

The regs say members must have a basic uniform and very clearly define that uniform.  Not sure why this is even being debated.

Probably because this particular regulation is somewhat obscure and we don't make a point of highlighting the fact that these are required where it might do some good for new members.

Then again there is the simple fact that the golf shirt culture is winning out in CAP.  Much as I hate to say it, I would not be surprised if CAP dumped the military style uniforms within 10-15 years just because so few people are wearing them anymore.  The trend is only getting worse.

[A.Member]

The regs say members must have a basic uniform and very clearly define that uniform.  Not sure why this is even being debated.

Probably because this particular regulation is somewhat obscure...

No, it's not - at all.

[RiverAux]

I wasn't commenting on the validity or appropriateness of the reg, just the fact that unless a new or current member decides to read 39-1 for the fun of it, they are very unlikely to be told of their obligation to buy these uniforms.  Maybe there is some mention of it in our latest new member materials it isn't something they're likely to come across.

If the minimum uniform is something that is important to CAP it probably should be just as obvious as are the annual dues.

[PHall]

Then again there is the simple fact that the golf shirt culture is winning out in CAP.  Much as I hate to say it, I would not be surprised if CAP dumped the military style uniforms within 10-15 years just because so few people are wearing them anymore.  The trend is only getting worse.

Maybe on the Senior Member Squadron side of the house. You still see the majority of the Senior Members who work with the Cadet Program in the military style uniforms.

[A.Member]

Then again there is the simple fact that the golf shirt culture is winning out in CAP.  Much as I hate to say it, I would not be surprised if CAP dumped the military style uniforms within 10-15 years just because so few people are wearing them anymore.  The trend is only getting worse.

Maybe on the Senior Member Squadron side of the house. You still see the majority of the Senior Members who work with the Cadet Program in the military style uniforms.

We're proud of the fact that none of our senior members wears the golf outfit and we strive to do more than simply meet minimum standards.  It adds to our esprit de corps.

[A.Member]

I wasn't commenting on the validity or appropriateness of the reg, just the fact that unless a new or current member decides to read 39-1 for the fun of it, they are very unlikely to be told of their obligation to buy these uniforms.  Maybe there is some mention of it in our latest new member materials it isn't something they're likely to come across.

If the minimum uniform is something that is important to CAP it probably should be just as obvious as are the annual dues.

This is the responsibilty of the squadron.  Uniforms are discussed at the prospective members first squadron visit and expectations are set.  Our recruiting officer hosts a uniform session, along with our Level 1 for every new member.  In addition, we do a refresher uniform course at least annually for all members during one of our regular meetings.

[RADIOMAN015]

Frankly, I see no reason why the Polo Shirt can't be utilized for most classrom type training activities.

I think that many members find that the polo shirt is more comfortable and is much less resistent to dirt/grime etc than that white aviator shirt.  That's my prime uniform (have both short sleeve & long sleeve polos) I wear at our squadron's meetings and occasionally wear my Blue BDU's. 

For the record, as an attendee & instructor at SLS seminars, I've worn the appropriate required uniform (which was the white aviator shirt).   I've also supported a regional training activity that allowed any CAP uniform, and there were many more golf shirts wearers in attendance than any other uniform combination. 

Surely we should encourage our senior membership to get the correct uniforms, BUT I'm not so sure in a classroom setting why a golf shirt couldn't be authorized.  It's the content of the information presented & discussed rather than what uniform that is worn that is important, in my opinion.
RM
   

[jimmydeanno]

The atmosphere of an SLS, CLC, RSC, NSC, is conveyed in the uniforms that people wear to them.    For something like an SLS, it is important to have people in something other than a polo, it conveys the level of professionalism that we want our volunteers to possess and gives a better perspective of the atmosphere and culture of our organization.

[A.Member]

The atmosphere of an SLS, CLC, RSC, NSC, is conveyed in the uniforms that people wear to them.    For something like an SLS, it is important to have people in something other than a polo, it conveys the level of professionalism that we want our volunteers to possess and gives a better perspective of the atmosphere and culture of our organization.

That atmosphere is important even outside those activities. 

Our cadets wear an military style uniforms.   They look to seniors for guidance.  Seniors have a responsibility to lead by example.  As such proper uniform wear is critical.   

The next logical progression is to have a collective approach (ie. uniform) - we are all in this together, one team.   Thus, the Air Force style uniform is preferred and encouraged in our squadron, along with the corporate alternative for those that don't meet the wear standards.  As I mentioned, it is a source of pride with us. 

I've spoken with many cadets (both within our squadron and outside of it) on this topic and it's amazing how important the common/one team image is to them, especially from the Senior members.  It's somewhat subtle but it adds to the overall professional image and attitude.  The cadets notice when a member doesn't take the time to wear their uniform correctly and they particularly appreciate when the extra effort is made to be in the military style uniforms.  Even if a senior does not work directly with cadets, they will undoubtedly be seen by cadets at some point - so this matters for them as well. 

[PWK-GT]

..... Considering the number of seniors who never complete Level II, I'd lean toward not putting barriers to attendance.

The only real barriers are the individual's willingness to comply to the regs, and maybe his/her command staff's ability to set the correct tone.

YMMV

[HGjunkie]

Here's my $0.02:

Frankly, I see no reason why the Polo Shirt can't be utilized for most classrom type training activities.

You could make the same argument for the CP. Why should cadets have to wear Blues/BDUs during classroom instruction and SM's dont?

Surely we should encourage our senior membership to get the correct uniforms, BUT I'm not so sure in a classroom setting why a golf shirt couldn't be authorized.  It's the content of the information presented & discussed rather than what uniform that is worn that is important, in my opinion.
RM

Again, same argument for cadets as above. Yes, I know CAP Cadets are "military cadets" and we're the USAF AUX, but if SM's can wear the Polos, why not cadets?

I've spoken with many cadets (both within our squadron and outside of it) on this topic and it's amazing how important the common/one team image is to them, especially from the Senior members.  It's somewhat subtle but it adds to the overall professional image and attitude.

I like this. I think it makes a good impression about a SM you've never met before when they are in a proper uniform during a class. But, if you are familiar with the person, it shouldn't matter what uniform they're wearing.

The cadets notice when a member doesn't take the time to wear their uniform correctly and they particularly appreciate when the extra effort is made to be in the military style uniforms.  Even if a senior does not work directly with cadets, they will undoubtedly be seen by cadets at some point - so this matters for them as well. 

I can see a uniform problem from 15 feet away, no joke. If a SM is wearing a uniform properly, I think it gives a good impression about how dedicated and serious they are about CAP.

[Майор Хаткевич]

In the old days of me as a cadet, I would be discretely asked to walk around on blues nights for SMs, and "gently" let folks know if there are any issues/report to the SM command staff. Not that it would change much for the next time the uniform is worn.

Spotting mistakes from 15ft away was fun, now I need glasses to do that...

[a2capt]

Polo shirts suck.......  I prefer the golf shirt

Some time back, probably about the time the little 'b' was out, and the Big 'V' moved in, the style/make of the "Golf" shirt that was offered did change. Perhaps this is what is being referenced.

I prefer the prior offering, myself, and have been meaning to see if it can be sourced elsewhere and have the seal added to it except that the whole C&D thing probably makes the latter a bit more difficult.

[Custer]

Frankly, I see no reason why the Polo Shirt can't be utilized for most classroom type training activities. I think that many members find that the polo shirt is more comfortable and is much less resistant to dirt/grime etc than that white aviator shirt.  That's my prime uniform (have both short sleeve & long sleeve polos) I wear at our squadron's meetings and occasionally wear my Blue BDU's.

My understanding is that the Polo is the budget substitute for  BDU's and Flight Suits for those who cannot afford them.  You take your aviator whites you wear to regular meetings - change the shirt and you have a minimally acceptable field & flying uniform.  The Polo is not the best / first choice for anything as far as I can tell.

Now as a veteran of a US Government agency that used white shirts for daily wear - keeping them clean wasn't the issue I expected with white - we were actually doing a lot of physical work - but after a while the shirts turned a dingy grey.  After I left that particular agency switched to all polyester light blue.

For that matter, the blue in the 1549 shirts tends to fade out with time too.

[ßτε]

I wonder if anyone has read CAPR 39-1 Table 4-8. CAP Distinctive Uniform Equivalents to USAF-Style Uniform.

[cap235629]

in this part of the country when you attend any training OUTSIDE of CAP (IC300, IC400 etc.) the uniform of the day seems to be polo shirts and khaki pants either dress style or "tactical" pants.  The polo with tactical pants seems to be the uniform of choice in an operational sense.  I personally wear this uniform (with gray tactical pants of course) more than any other as I am often interfacing with other agencies.  In classes I wear gray dress slacks and the polo.  The only time I wear the aviator whites to a class is for graduation photos.... Comfort and function over playing dress up.... YMMV

[a2capt]

... and khaki pants either dress style or "tactical" pants.

..the only thing uniform is.. lack of uniformity. 
Amazing, I've never any reference to khaki, tan, beige, etc., in 39-1.

[davidsinn]

... and khaki pants either dress style or "tactical" pants.

..the only thing uniform is.. lack of uniformity. 
Amazing, I've never any reference to khaki, tan, beige, etc., in 39-1.

I think he's talking about the other agencies.

[Custer]

... and khaki pants either dress style or "tactical" pants.

..the only thing uniform is.. lack of uniformity.  Amazing, I've never any reference to khaki, tan, beige, etc., in 39-1.

There is none.  However various activities in CAP keep prescribing it as the uniform, even at Region level.   Considering how many shades of grey you can wear and still be technically correct I'm surprised the rule isn't changed to something like  "long pants only, no shorts or sandals".

Official videos put out by national even show the polo shirt being worn with blue jeans.

[a2capt]

Yes, I read the "OUTSIDE" of CAP, though I have to presume that the context is attending such training representing CAP as discussed in this thread.

[tsrup]

On topic,
If you don't have the minimum required uniform by 39-1.  You have already failed SLS, and any other course that follows it.

Follow the rules: get the course credit.

CAP stands nothing to gain by allowing those that do not follow the Regs to progress.  Plain and Simple.

[Gung Ho]

On topic,
If you don't have the minimum required uniform by 39-1.  You have already failed SLS, and any other course that follows it.

Follow the rules: get the course credit.

CAP stands nothing to gain by allowing those that do not follow the Regs to progress.  Plain and Simple.

Maybe if it is required CAP should change the FAQ on the website because there is a question there about do you have to wear and uniform and it say you could be required to for some activities not that you will have any basic uniform.

[Eclipse]

On topic,
If you don't have the minimum required uniform by 39-1.  You have already failed SLS, and any other course that follows it.

Follow the rules: get the course credit.

CAP stands nothing to gain by allowing those that do not follow the Regs to progress.  Plain and Simple.

Maybe if it is required CAP should change the FAQ on the website because there is a question there about do you have to wear and uniform and it say you could be required to for some activities not that you will have any basic uniform.

The FAQ is not a regulation - it is a generalization of the expectations members will encounter.   An actual reading of the applicable regulations indicates that all senior members are required to equip themselves with the aviator whites, and further that unit and activity commanders may prescribe or prohibit any uniform combination as they see fit.

Nowhere in any FAQ or regulation will you find any indication that senior members will ever be issued uniforms or other equipment.

[PHall]

On topic,
If you don't have the minimum required uniform by 39-1.  You have already failed SLS, and any other course that follows it.

Follow the rules: get the course credit.

CAP stands nothing to gain by allowing those that do not follow the Regs to progress.  Plain and Simple.

Maybe if it is required CAP should change the FAQ on the website because there is a question there about do you have to wear and uniform and it say you could be required to for some activities not that you will have any basic uniform.

The FAQ is not a regulation - it is a generalization of the expectations members will encounter.   An actual reading of the applicable regulations indicates that all senior members are required to equip themselves with the aviator whites, and further that unit and activity commanders may prescribe or prohibit any uniform combination as they see fit.

Nowhere in any FAQ or regulation will you find any indication that senior members will ever be issued uniforms or other equipment.

All Senior Members? Or just the one's who can't/won't wear the Air Force Style uniform.

[Eclipse]

All Senior Members? Or just the one's who can't/won't wear the Air Force Style uniform.

((*sigh*))

All seniors are required to equip themselves with the "Minimum Basic Service Uniform" (BSU).

If they are unable or unwilling to wear it they are required to equip themselves with the "CAP Distinctive Basic Uniform" (DBU).  Another alternative not mentioned in the current version of 39-1 is the "Corporate Service Uniform".  The CSU meets the spirit and intent
of 39-1's uniform requirement, but as it is not mentioned in the document, someone looking to waste breath or text could make the argument it does not meet the minimum uniform requirement as defined.

The golf shirt is an alternative that may be allowed by unit and activity commanders, but does not meet the minimum uniform requirements in either spirit or intent.

(Better?).

[Custer]

OK seriously, whats the deal with the clock references?

[Dracosbane]

A timer referencing the locking of a thread.

IBTL

[SarDragon]

OK seriously, whats the deal with the clock references?

It's my way of hinting that a thread has reached the end of whatever usefulness it might have had, and the time is ticking down until it gets locked.

Hey, Mike Squad, can we pop these three posts out into a separate thread?

[lordmonar]

Four pages!  Really!

It is not rocket science.....you wear the UOD the director tells you to.  End of story.

Read the Frigging Manual...what unifrom we MUST buy.

Let's not get into anyone elses chilly Guys!

Take it easy Francis.

[Major Carrales]

Here is some uniform philosophy...

USAF and CAP CORP uniforms have utility at their center

Mess Dress for USAF Style Formal, Tux
Service Coat for business formal, CAP Blazer for the same purpose.
USAF Service Dress *long and short sleeve, CAP White Grays
OD Green Flight Suit, Blue Flight Suit/Golf Shirt
BDUs, BBDUs

All that is countered if the Uniform of the day is mandated.  This is CAP, one signed up for this.  Wear the UOD or don't go.  If one doesn't have them, barrow the uniform combo if you must.

[NIN]

To borrow a bit of a meme from Mike's earlier post in the Uniform & Awards section, I present this, which I think is quite frankly dead center on topic to both this particular discussion, and about 94.5% of all the uniform "discussions" held here on CAPTalk.

(Caution, language alert.  Minor use of "the brown word" in here)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwNQf08Kxsw

Now go and paint your Spitfires yellow, eh?

[AirAux]

Actually an obese individual looks no better in a white tight shirt than they do in a blue tight shirt and with some body shapes it is impossible to find shirts that fit properly.  At least the golf shirt is more comfortable to wear for said individuals.  Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership, whereas both fatties and skinnies wear the golf shirt, making it more acceptable and less irritating to fatties.  We need a universal "UNIFORM"..

[Eclipse]

Actually an obese individual looks no better in a white tight shirt than they do in a blue tight shirt and with some body shapes it is impossible to find shirts that fit properly.  At least the golf shirt is more comfortable to wear for said individuals.

Both non-concur and irrelevant - a tank top and flip flops would be more comfortable for all of us, however the point of the whites is a professional, business-like appearance.  Also, last I checked the majority of our members are actually employed and engaged in activities outside CAP.  Some even own clothing that is neither a uniform item nor jogging pants, and somehow find a way to replenish their supplies when necessary.  Except for a very, very small minority, there is no issue finding clothing that fits out members, especially when you are talking about a white shirt, gray pants and a sport coat.

I doubt many of the "you can't make me crowd" would consider wearing a golf shirt to a wedding, funeral, or formal business meeting, but have no issue whatsoever with their appearance at meetings and missions, yet they wonder why we have image and attitude issues both internally and externally.

Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership...

Red Herring.
Beyond the few vocal members on this board who want to make hay regarding the issue of military badges, there aren't enough members who have ever even considered the issue to make that statement even plausible, and further, in a CAP context, it isn't even true, since regarding badges and insignia that have application internal to CAP, the uniforms are virtually identical.

The truth of the matter is that far too many members have never even read 39-1, including sitting CC's, let alone understand it and heed it (the ICL issues not withstanding), and then get defensive when they encounter activities who's PIC have read the documents and enforce the mandates.

Anything after that is excuse or rationalization.  One big delimiter of maturity is how you react when you either find yourself to misunderstand a situation or don't get your way.  Adults adapt and overcome, and learn for next time, children stomp their feet and say "...You can't make me."  I would never consider holding a member responsible for something they were never told or exposed to, but once the facts are on the table, you can't just pretend to not know.

(NIN, those video are brilliant.)

[Nolan Teel]

This is why I hate the polo shirt.  None the less it is up to the Activity Director/Commander/IC to dictate what uniform will be worn.

[Custer]

Both non-concur and irrelevant - a tank top and flip flops would be more comfortable for all of us

My initial reaction was to say I would not be caught dead dressed like that - but dead is the only way you could dress me that way.

Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership...

But the wear policy for the polo shirt is exactly the same  and it looks even less like a uniform.

Want some real fun?  The USAF now has an "informal " uniform.  It is a navy blue polo with khaki pants.  Put an entry in 39-1 saying you may wear Khaki pants with the polo shirt - but as it is a USAF uniform combination - you have to meet weight & grooming standards - otherwise you have to wear grey.

[wuzafuzz]

Actually an obese individual looks no better in a white tight shirt than they do in a blue tight shirt and with some body shapes it is impossible to find shirts that fit properly.  At least the golf shirt is more comfortable to wear for said individuals.  Plus, some boycott the whites as a statement regarding second class membership, whereas both fatties and skinnies wear the golf shirt, making it more acceptable and less irritating to fatties.  We need a universal "UNIFORM"..

I've seen folks of all body types wearing the aviator whites.  In fact I'm planning to buy a white shirt even though I am slim enough to wear the Air Force style uniform.  I like the idea of not having to wear a hat.  There needn't be a stigma attached to the aviator whites.

[Patterson]

Want some real fun?  The USAF now has an "informal " uniform.  It is a navy blue polo with khaki pants.  Put an entry in 39-1 saying you may wear Khaki pants with the polo shirt - but as it is a USAF uniform combination - you have to meet weight & grooming standards - otherwise you have to wear grey.

Actually CAP has that uniform.  It is for the VSAF Program (If it still exists).  Also, for a while now, that has been the casual dress of our National Headquarters folks.  However, CAP buys its employees different color polo shirts, which is a nice perk.  Very few at NHQ wear business attire these days (unless they have a meeting etc.)

[RVT]

I've seen folks of all body types wearing the aviator whites.  In fact I'm planning to buy a white shirt even though I am slim enough to wear the Air Force style uniform.  I like the idea of not having to wear a hat.  There needn't be a stigma attached to the aviator whites.

Its what I'll be in tomorrow night.  I.m 5' 11" and 174 Lb, but I also work in a field where I have no contact with the public, and so often do not have a regulation haircut.

No beard, I even met USAF weight standards - and still don't look right for wearing blues.  Personally I think aviator whites are very convenient - I just hope they stay reasonably clean.  We meet in an older fairly dusty building and a white shirt may not even survive a 2 hour meeting without needing a wash.

[coudano]

The grey slacks / white aviator shirt, is for those of us who do not meet the weight requirments for wear of the air force uniforms.

Actually it is auth for anyone.  No seniors at my squadron, including me, and some others who also meet weight and grooming, and those who work with our cadets, wear the af style uniform.  We are a corp only shop.  It is good unit culture, it is good for morale.  It in no way affects my ability do do one heck of a fine job as a dcoc.

That said, i agree, the aviator is the equiv of the basic service uniform, and it is wholly appropriate to require it for something like sls

[AirDX]

It in no way affects my ability do do one heck of a fine job as a dcoc.

:clap:

Thanks for that!