Navy Grounds MH-60 Crews After Lake Tahoe Dip

[A.Member]

Oops:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/09/navy-mh60-grounding-092410w/

The Navy grounded two MH-60R aircrews with a Coronado, Calif., squadron after their helicopters sustained damage when they dipped into Lake Tahoe on Sept. 13, Naval Air Forces said Friday.

An aviation mishap board is looking into the incident, which happened when the crews with Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 41 "were on a return leg of a cross country training flight," said Lt. Aaron Kakiel, an AirFor spokesman at North Island Naval Air Station. The crews had participated in an air show at Mather Air Force Base near Sacramento, Calif., which held the California Capital Air Show on Sept. 11-12.

The newer helicopters sustained damage, ranging from $50,000 to $500,000, in the Class "C" mishap "when they attempted to enter into a hover. When they did, they ended up settling with power," Kakiel said. "Both aircraft were able to regain their airspeed and altitude" and landed at nearby Lake Tahoe airport...

I'm not going to speculate but it'll be interesting to see the report on this one once it's released.

Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYExH8hpgXI

[tsrup]

so a helicopter had an incident where it "settled with power"

Not an uncommon phenomena, and the fact that they managed to put the helicopter down elsewhere is great.
Flying Pig will probably be able to comment more on that subject.


All the article says is that crap happens even to military aircraft.

[Flying Pig]

Settling with Power also knowns as Vortex Ring State is an aerodynamic phenomenon when a helicopter decends into its own rotor tip vortexes.  Adding power actually accelerates your decent rate. 

High altitude, Probably High DA and High Gross weight will make it all worse.  Add an unchecked rate of decent, which you can see in the video, and whoala. 

The only way to get out of it is to lower your collective, decreasing blade pitch, reduce power and fly out of it. With enough altitude its not a problem.  At low altitude, you wont have the ability to fly out of it.....like this one.
Its called settling with power because you are decending with power, or settling.  The more power you add, the faster you "settle".

[SarDragon]

Oops:

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2010/09/navy-mh60-grounding-092410w/

The Navy grounded two MH-60R aircrews with a Coronado, Calif., squadron after their helicopters sustained damage when they dipped into Lake Tahoe on Sept. 13, Naval Air Forces said Friday.

An aviation mishap board is looking into the incident, which happened when the crews with Helicopter Maritime Strike Squadron 41 "were on a return leg of a cross country training flight," said Lt. Aaron Kakiel, an AirFor spokesman at North Island Naval Air Station. The crews had participated in an air show at Mather Air Force Base near Sacramento, Calif., which held the California Capital Air Show on Sept. 11-12.

The newer helicopters sustained damage, ranging from $50,000 to $500,000, in the Class "C" mishap "when they attempted to enter into a hover. When they did, they ended up settling with power," Kakiel said. "Both aircraft were able to regain their airspeed and altitude" and landed at nearby Lake Tahoe airport...

I'm not going to speculate but it'll be interesting to see the report on this one once it's released.

Video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYExH8hpgXI

Due to the nature of the incident, the full report will not likely be released to the general public. There will undoubtedly be disciplinary action involved, and the details of that are generally considered privileged info.

so a helicopter had an incident where it "settled with power"

Not an uncommon phenomena, and the fact that they managed to put the helicopter down elsewhere is great.
Flying Pig will probably be able to comment more on that subject.


All the article says is that crap happens even to military aircraft.

This is NOT a "crap happens" incident. It's more like misdemeanor stupidity on the part of the pilots. This isn't much smarter than flying under bridges, or similar behaviour.

[a2capt]

Crap happens, eh?

Do they normally flow down that low over lakes that have mountains around them? Sounds like a stupid moment to me.

[tsrup]

Crap happens, eh?

Do they normally flow down that low over lakes that have mountains around them? Sounds like a stupid moment to me.

Sounds like pilot error,

which is the primary cause of all aviation incidents, military or Civilian. 

This is only a big deal because the aircrew lived.

There's no need to start conspiracies until the inquiry is finished.  From the article alone there wasn't anything said that they were doing anything out of the ordinary and their training event was unsanctioned.  I could see 1 aircrew doing something dumb, but there was two involved.

Being grounded after an incident and having a formal inquiry seems to be the SOP for all incidents in the RM (and in our policy as well). 

No need to armchair quarterback this until after the people in the know make their judgment.

so for the time being "crap happens"
and if pilot error is to blame then add this addendum: "..it happens even more if you're stupid"

[SarDragon]

I spent a whole Navy career around their pilot culture. This was nothing more than some hotdogging gone wrong. This was just like the stereotypical bubba saying "hey, watch this!", and then having an unintended consequence. Foolish behaviour is not restricted to solos.

[Flying Pig]

Not armchair QB'ing, but settling with power is very much a pilot induced error.

[tsrup]

Not armchair QB'ing, but settling with power is very much a pilot induced error.

I'll concede that,

Seemed to be something they stressed pretty hard even before my first attempt at a rotor wing.

[bosshawk]

If you take a look at a map of CA, you just might notice that Lake Tahoe is about 50 miles east of a direct line from Mather to San Diego.  I suspect that our intrepid Naval Aviators decided to go sightseeing on the Navy nickle and got caught.  It is fortunate that nobody got hurt or killed.

[A.Member]

bosshawk touched on part of their problem.

Due to the nature of the incident, the full report will not likely be released to the general public. There will undoubtedly be disciplinary action involved, and the details of that are generally considered privileged info.

They may not release specific disciplinary actions but this was only a Class "C" incident.  I expect most details related to the inicident itself to be released.

[PHall]

bosshawk touched on part of their problem.

Due to the nature of the incident, the full report will not likely be released to the general public. There will undoubtedly be disciplinary action involved, and the details of that are generally considered privileged info.

They may not release specific disciplinary actions but this was only a Class "C" incident.  I expect most details related to the inicident itself to be released.

The Safety Investigation Report can't be used for disciplinary action. The Headhunters have to do their own seperate investigation.