Suspending squadrons because Wing failed to do SUIs???

[RiverAux]

someone with an ax to grind is trying to make some drama.

There is no doubt about that in regards to the NOTF article as a whole, but thats normal SOP there.  I was primarily interested in the CC's response....

[Hill CAP]

They did our SUI last night. There is an interesting reason why the push for the SUIs in FL if anyone wants to know they can PM Me.

Our Squadron is very new less then a year old and we received a marginal with a reinspection in 3 months

Wow, your squadron has been around since 1998 at least, so how does that make it less than a year old?  Granted, it has flip flopped between senior, cadet, and composite at times, but the charter number has been the same and has been continuous.  Not only that but you have been there since June of 09.

Yes I understand this. However on the list of squadrons that was sent out to be inspected shows us as a New Charter. Why I don't Know

[BuckeyeDEJ]

Lets please understand that others may be reading this board and get ideas no one wants them to have. I'd rather err on the side of caution.

Please also know that with nearly 4,000 members (we're CAP's largest wing), rumors within Florida Wing can spread and permutate quickly -- never mind spreading the virus to the rest of the organization.

Thank you.

-- Your friendly Florida Wing director of public relations and marketing

[Cecil DP]

Excerpted from the Wing CV's message


Group Commanders,

As a result of the SAV a situation has been identified that requires immediate actionto keep from shutting down a large number of units.  All Groups, Squadrons, and Flights are required to have a SUI every 36 months.  FLWG has held a different interpretation of this requirement in the past and we are now possibly out of the 36 month window for some units.


How can anyone misinterpt the meaning of the words 36 months?

[RADIOMAN015]

Excerpted from the Wing CV's message


Group Commanders,

As a result of the SAV a situation has been identified that requires immediate actionto keep from shutting down a large number of units.  All Groups, Squadrons, and Flights are required to have a SUI every 36 months.  FLWG has held a different interpretation of this requirement in the past and we are now possibly out of the 36 month window for some units.

How can anyone misinterpt the meaning of the words 36 months?

yea, it sort of dispells any rumors with just the facts .  HOWEVER, I would think that they would just come up with a new more aggressive inspection schedule (perhaps an 18 month period), to get the units inspected.   When you rush doing things the quality of what you do can be severely impacted.  It's unlikely there was any malice intended.

Our wing does it every two years, and personally I'd like to see it slip to what the minimum requirement says UNLESS there's specific indicators that a unit needs to be inspected.    I personally think the self assessments if done honestly can really assist the IG (they should ask right up front what your issues are and what you are doing to resolve).  I know in the 2 functional areas that I am responsible for at the unit there's some issues, and the wing functional folks know that I am working on those issues because I've told them.

I think the main reason the suspension of squadrons is in the regulation is if the unit commander keeps on putting off the inspection or isn't available, than there's got to be something punitive.  Hopefully Florida wing will be able to come up with a reasonable plan that will satisfy all.       

RM

[Eclipse]

Our wing does it every two years, and personally I'd like to see it slip to what the minimum requirement says

That is what it says. A wing has two options, and must formally declare which they are on:

Once every two years, with no mid-point self assessments.

Once every three years with a self assessment at the midpoint.

Note, those are minimums, a wing could require them annually regardless.  I require self-assessments whenever there is a command change.  It gives the new guy (and me) a objective assessment of where the unit really is, and in some cases opens the eyes of the new guys as to what running a squadron really entails.

I personally think the self assessments if done honestly can really assist the IG (they should ask right up front what your issues are and what you are doing to resolve).  I know in the 2 functional areas that I am responsible for at the unit there's some issues

Assist them with what?  IG's are not involved in remediation - they ask and report.  Remediation is the responsibility of the next echelon.  Knowing you have issues, and are working on them, won't, or shouldn't, change your grade.

The answer to the questions (mostly), is either "yes" or "no".  Why its "no" can be noted, but that doesn't change it being "no".

[Old Timer]

Do you all realize how much time you all waste "doing CAP" rather than doing the mission CAP proports to do?

Why do you have IGs?

CAP is a civil, privately chartered CORPORATION, period! Yes, it has a Congressional charter, just like theCamp Fire Girls and the Americal Florist Association. It has no statutory mandate anymore. It service only "as AN auxiliary when tasked by the SecAF" (and that's only those members signed in on the ICS-211.)

Why do you have personnel and admin officers?

For that matter why are records kept at the subordinate unit level, when the membership pays dues (and the Air Force kicks in a few additional million) to establish and staff a National Headquartes.  All your records should be there, and these are the only "real" records (remember, you won't let that 15-year old in your sqdn pin on their Sgt stripes or Lt pips until "it's posted at National" so why all the fuss at the squadron, other than to make busy-work.

All this does not train a single member, put a plane in the air or save a life. It creates opportunities for gate-keeping and power plays

[JC004]

...
Is this another example a la Pennsylvania Wing of going way overboard in punishing squadrons for someone else's problem? 
...

What is this?  We were told that we did such a good job that we were being giving time off for a vacation. 

...
How can anyone misinterpt the meaning of the words 36 months?

Well a wing staff officer once told me that the wing commander can interpret regulations however he likes.  That has worked well.

Do you all realize how much time you all waste "doing CAP" rather than doing the mission CAP proports to do?

Why do you have IGs?

CAP is a civil, privately chartered CORPORATION, period! Yes, it has a Congressional charter, just like theCamp Fire Girls and the Americal Florist Association. It has no statutory mandate anymore. It service only "as AN auxiliary when tasked by the SecAF" (and that's only those members signed in on the ICS-211.)

Why do you have personnel and admin officers?

For that matter why are records kept at the subordinate unit level, when the membership pays dues (and the Air Force kicks in a few additional million) to establish and staff a National Headquartes.  All your records should be there, and these are the only "real" records (remember, you won't let that 15-year old in your sqdn pin on their Sgt stripes or Lt pips until "it's posted at National" so why all the fuss at the squadron, other than to make busy-work.

All this does not train a single member, put a plane in the air or save a life. It creates opportunities for gate-keeping and power plays

Any organization requires support staff in order to function.  Someone has to get the funding, someone has to make sure legal compliance is in order, someone has to keep the records, etc., etc., etc.

IGs are there to make sure the rules are being followed (very simply).

How is NHQ supposed to know what a member has done if someone locally doesn't prepare those things?

This enables training, puts and keeps planes in the air, and saves lives.  The organization can't exist with just a bunch of self-certified folks who go out on a mission when someone goes missing (that is, if anyone can call them because without the support staff keeping those records...or if they can get an airplane to use because someone had to get the funds to buy it and someone had to maintain it, etc., etc., etc.). 

You will notice the Red Cross doesn't just have a bunch of instructors, blood collectors, and disaster people who wander around aimlessly without any funding, records, or other support...

[a2capt]

I sense a troll with an axe to grind..  at least it's not a single drive-by.

[Cecil DP]

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How can anyone misinterpt the meaning of the words 36 months?

Well a wing staff officer once told me that the wing commander can interpret regulations however he likes.  That has worked well.

Unless he owns and operates a TARDIS, three years is three years or 1095 days.

[Old Timer]

JC,

You seem to have forgotten CAP already has a "support staff", they reside at your National Headquarters, and both you and the Air Force pays from them.

Why do you "need" an IG system, other than for an out-of-touch leadership team that in the absence of the UCMJ and statutory authority needs a "strong stick" to cower its fellow club members into submission by the treat of removal.

Let us compare and contrast.

While the CAP types like to say they are "the USAF Auxiliary", a REAL legal auxiliary does exist (see 14 USC 821) in the USCG Auxiliary.

Funny, they don't have an IG system. If there is a violation of law (remember, since the Auxiliary is a part of the Coast Guard, the regulations and training requirements are only USCG, not watered down CAP regs.) said violation is investigated by the Coast Guard IG. So... if false or spurious charges are brought up (a'la Pineda), it is most likely the accuser rather than the accused will find themselves under a very legal microscope.

Perhaps this may be why while the CG Auxiliary has only about 35, 000 members (compared to the 30,000 adult members in CAP) they are able to save about 3,500 to 4,500 lives every year (again to CAP's 20 to 40, less than half if you take out the high numbers from Alaska)

Seem if you want to push paper and wear rank, CAP is the place to be.

However, if you are more mission focused and truly want to make a difference in your community, then perhaps the CGA is where real operational work gets done.

Think about this before you answer me, and discover the truth in your heart and in your organization.

[a2capt]

Gee, one of your posts seems to have disappeared.

Seems like what I read last night you implied you were a member somewhere, and these imply you're not.

Whatever it is, you'll get routed out.

..and I'm all out of what little troll food I had.

[dwb]

Think about this before you answer me, and discover the truth in your heart and in your organization.

You sound like the Emperor in the Star Wars movies.  "Search your heart, you know it to be true..."  Give me a break. 

[Old Timer]

That is the sound of age and experience, my young friend.

If you "need a break" it is probably from the painful sounds of conflict

between your heart that wants me to me wrong,

and your head that knows I'm right.

[Old Timer]

...and DWB,  it you're going to quote me, at least get the line right.

        "... and discover the truth in your heart and in your organization."

The question becomes, do you have the courage to do so?  Do you have the courage to discover an answer you don't want to see?

But then with that comes the ulimate question;
                                                                 
                                                                  do you have the courage to act on what you see?


   

[Ned]

But then with that comes the ulimate question; do you have the courage to act on what you see?

And we know you have "age and experience" because  . . .

oh, yeah, you anonymously told us so on the internets.  It must be true.

You could easily be some 18 year old USCGA newbe/wannabe with more enthusiasm than common sense.

So, since you seem to calling others out on "courage," let me ask you the same thing.

Do you have the courage to stand publicly behind your words? 

We'll see.


Ned Lee

[Eclipse]

[dwb]

...and DWB,  it you're going to quote me, at least get the line right.

I wasn't quoting you, I was quoting Star Wars.  I gave you a hint when I wrote "You sound like the Emperor from Star Wars."

The question becomes, do you have the courage to do so?  Do you have the courage to discover an answer you don't want to see?

False Dichotomy: A situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options.  For example, positing that one either agrees with your opinion, or lacks courage.

[davidsinn]

...and DWB,  it you're going to quote me, at least get the line right.

I wasn't quoting you, I was quoting Star Wars.  I gave you a hint when I wrote "You sound like the Emperor from Star Wars."

The question becomes, do you have the courage to do so?  Do you have the courage to discover an answer you don't want to see?

False Dichotomy: A situation in which only two alternatives are considered, when in fact there are other options.  For example, positing that one either agrees with your opinion, or lacks courage.

As an example I think he's full of crap and I have the courage to attach my name.

[BuckeyeDEJ]

This discussion has gone way off track.

For crying out loud, why would we freeze units when they're busy with a federal mission?

There's lots of rumormongering right now. Stay tuned for the word from the authorities.