Formal Dining In/Out Ceremony

[mbrown]

working on helping plan my squadron's 1st dining out, anyone have any suggestions/advice/cautionary tales?

[jimmydeanno]

Don't spike the grog bowl...

[CAP Producer]

Have a look at this article and don't forget to send a story about it to the Volunteer Now.   

Part 1 - Planning : http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforce/a/afdiningin.htm

Part 2 - Conduct of the event: http://usmilitary.about.com/od/airforce/a/afdiningin2.htm

[pierson777]

One mistake I saw at a CAP Dining Out was the size of the cups for the grog bowl.  Someone thought that 16 oz plastic cups would be appropriate.  However, the "Rules of the Mess" said to fill the cup all way, raise it up to your mouth and you drink all of it.  That would be tough to do with 16 oz of water, and they expected cadets to do it with 16 oz of disgusting grog.  It was awkward and time consuming to wait for each person to choke this stuff down, while holding back their gag reflex.  A smaller cup would've been better, like 6 oz.

[Flying Pig]

Yeah, Ive seen that too.  It really takes the fun out of the entire event.  You should really go with small cups.  No more than about 2 swallows.  As it is, people will take their time.  And nothing to crazy.  Ive seen people vomit at military dining ins.  Nothing you really have to spend time chewing. And whatever you come up with, make a couple of test runs on the drink with a couple different people.  These are supposed to be fun events.  You dont want cadets and Senior crying while they are drinking it.

[Eclipse]

The problem with these things is that unless everyone "gets" it, it can get out of hand quickly, and turns into
hearings and work for the IG (BTDT).

The Vice is the key - if he is experienced, personable, and a good speaker, things will be lighthearted and everyone will
have fun.  If he's not, the evening will drag on with limp fish comments and groans (or worse).

A 1-trip / 1 drink rule for the grog (assuming you have one, which is not necessary, nor necessarily a good idea), should be at the top
of the list, especially for cadets.

I would suggest that the GLR-RSC dining out is a good example of "do" - no grog, and the Vice for years has been a member of the CIC
with a lot of experience in these things and who knows where the line is.  There were also no cadets present, so the line itself did not need to be so bright.

[Spike]

Don't spike the grog bowl...

hahaha...my screen name is SPIKE.....hahahha

[Senior]

I have only been to a couple of dining ins.  We had a grog bowl at
both.  Mr. Vice really needs to know what he is doing or it will turn into a long drawn out mess.  I wonder if you could contact a ROTC
unit to get advice about a formal military dining in?  It wouldn't hurt
to ask, right?  The mixing of the grog is fun.  We had the grog mixed
in a toilet bowl for ARMY ROTC.  I think we had a punch bowl for the
CAP dining in I attended.  You might try contacting the  Public Affairs Office at a military base to arrange a military speaker.   

[Pingree1492]

Here is a link to the AFROTC Dining-In/Out Guide.  http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&ved=0CBIQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fcampus.mst.edu%2Fairforce%2Ffiles%2FcadetFiles%2FDiningInGuide.pdf&ei=ySiYS8KMA42YtgfjvPyqBA&usg=AFQjCNHD3xWkI6Ueeh1xHfToPLfo4T1C8Q&sig2=pWHRZM4z08Yk46M9yXNItg

All the other guides suggested are great if you're running a senior-only show, or (for whatever reason) don't want your cadets to help run and plan the activity.  Basically, the ROTC guide has already been adapted for the unique arena of cadet programs. 

[Short Field]

I have attend more than a few Dining In/Out ceremonies of all the services and the key is to keep it fun.  I was only the Vice once because it is normally the junior officer in the unit. Don't see that happening in a Senior/Cadet event. 

AVOID the insider jokes and AVOID creating a long line at the grog bowl over nit noys.  Boring the mess should be a quick trip to the grog bowl.  Keep the grog clean - no floating Paydays - and drinkable.  Don't stop the banter and entertainment just to watch the people at the grog bowl.  I have been to a few where the main entertainment seemed to be watching the members drink the grog.  Boring.....  I have seen the charging of the Grog (building the grog mix) Bowl done very well and I have seen them get carried away with silliness that rapidly became boring...

Most of the traditions of the mess were created by professionals who wanted to unwind a bit and have a night of fun.  It was ok to have a bit of fun with the Commanding General - but everyone knew he was the Commanding General and tomorrow came very quickly so there were lines you didn't cross.  Oh, did I mention don't bore the mess...       

[Earhart1971]

Don't spike the grog bowl...

The Grog Bowl, where it came from I don't know, Grog was not around in the 70s, or my time in the Air Force, its a childish WASTE of TIME!

[Short Field]

Grog was around in the 70s and that was the first decade of my time in the Air Force.  However, it tended to be an alcoholic and non-alcoholic bowl.  The alcoholic bowl was just a strong alcohol based punch - actually fairly tasty.  The non-alcoholic bowl was a punch that was "spiced up" a bit to compensate for the lack of alcohol. 

[raivo]

The Grog Bowl, where it came from I don't know, Grog was not around in the 70s, or my time in the Air Force, its a childish WASTE of TIME!

We had grog ("leaded" and "unleaded") at my OTS graduation. It's silly, yet amusing... even the OTS commander, a bird colonel, took a trip to the bowl. (Which, awesomely enough, was placed in the bowl of a toilet. ) Let the good times be.

Back on track, I don't have much to offer other than what's already been said.

Have a good vice, don't "over-grog" the participants, and don't have bad grog.

[Spike]

Remember that this is a historical activity in all senses.  It is a chance for the men and women to get together by themselves or with their families.  Celebrate the units accomplishments and those of the members. If you have family and friends attending, don't leave them out.  Make sure your appreciation is given to that group as well.  The links above can guide you.  Or you can google.  The army has some guides on line, and the Air Force functions are almost exactly like what the Army guides say to do. 

Good Luck!! 

[Earhart1971]

The Grog Bowl, where it came from I don't know, Grog was not around in the 70s, or my time in the Air Force, its a childish WASTE of TIME!

We had grog ("leaded" and "unleaded") at my OTS graduation. It's silly, yet amusing... even the OTS commander, a bird colonel, took a trip to the bowl. (Which, awesomely enough, was placed in the bowl of a toilet. ) Let the good times be.

Back on track, I don't have much to offer other than what's already been said.

Have a gokquestod vice, don't "over-grog" the participants, and don't have bad grog.

Grog at the last Banquet I attended took up most the time that would have been used for handing out Awards. The time waste was a diserverice to the people at the Banquet.

[Senior]

I will emphasize again that you have to have a very good Mr. Vice to keep things
fun and moving along.  You don't make the grog the only event for the dining in.
My two experiences were fun, light hearted.  :clap:

[Larry Mangum]

Remember that this is a historical activity in all senses.  It is a chance for the men and women to get together by themselves or with their families.  Celebrate the units accomplishments and those of the members. If you have family and friends attending, don't leave them out.  Make sure your appreciation is given to that group as well.  The links above can guide you.  Or you can google.  The army has some guides on line, and the Air Force functions are almost exactly like what the Army guides say to do. 

Good Luck!!

As I rember it the difference between a dining in and dining out,  was that a dinning in only had members of the unit, a grog bowl and  no family/outsiders, while a dining-in did not have a grog bowl and outside guests and dates were allowed.

To quote one source:

Dining-in. The dining-in is a formal dinner for the members of a wing, unit, or organization. Although a dining-in is traditionally a unit function, attendance by other smaller units may be appropriate.

Dining-out. The dining-out is a relatively new custom that includes spouses and guests. It is similar in all other respects to a dining-in. The dining-out is becoming increasingly popular with officers and enlisted members alike.

[lordmonar]

That is the way it was explained to me when I was active duty.

Back in the day officers had their mess or dining club (this is from way back in the day) that only members and their guest could attend.

When the unit wanted to have a special event that excluded guests they would plan Dining-in.

The U.S. military adopted the Dining-in during WWII when we picked it up from the Brits.

Over the years it was opened up to guests and the Dining was invented.

A Dining-out is actually more formal then a Dining-in because of the need to maintain a more professional appearance in front of the wives and guests.  Dining-in are for just "the guys" so you can be More relaxed, tell more inside jokes and really stick it to your friends and commander.

In the strictest military tradition....anytime you mix ranks (Officers and enlisted) then it is actually a Dining-out as the enlisted personnel are not normally members of the mess....and again the need to maintain a more professional appearance when your subordinates are around.

With that said....with the changing nature of the enlisted-officer relationship on active duty due to the changes in the old school ideas of separation of ranks, consolidation of the open mess facilities and the general change in society about class distinctions, Dining-ins usually military only and Dining-outs mean civilian guest are allowed.

[Gunner C]

Don't spike the grog bowl...

The Grog Bowl, where it came from I don't know, Grog was not around in the 70s, or my time in the Air Force, its a childish WASTE of TIME!

I never saw it in the 60s; I had the AF Dining-In Guide (semi-official) and the Air Officers Guide.  Neither made mention of it.  Gotta agree.  Grog bowl is dumb.

[mbrown]

thanks everyone for all their help and resources with this, i plan to present my commanders tonight with what i have so far, hopefully all goes well.

[mbrown]

thanks everyone for all your help with this, the dining out was today and it went better than i ever could have though it would have

[raivo]

Great!