Hi All,
I'm aiming to buy the woodland green gortex parka for winter wear. My local BX doesn't seem to stock the jacket, and I'm seeing a seemingly good price as US Cavalry. However, the nice people at US Cavalry say the jackets and pants they sell are "military spec," but not "issue."
Are mil spec items acceptable for CAP AF-style uniform items, or must we wear "issue" items purchased from a BX, only?
Thanks,
Chad
Quote from: chadrm on December 25, 2007, 08:31:27 PM
Hi All,
I'm aiming to buy the woodland green gortex parka for winter wear. My local BX doesn't seem to stock the jacket, and I'm seeing a seemingly good price as US Cavalry. However, the nice people at US Cavalry say the jackets and pants they sell are "military spec," but not "issue."
Are mil spec items acceptable for CAP AF-style uniform items, or must we wear "issue" items purchased from a BX, only?
Thanks,
Chad
Milspec just means they're constructed to the same standards as the items that are issued. Either one is perfectly acceptable. But the items should be at least milspec, so that you don't have items that look military but lack some pockets or have colors that are off.
Thanks!
You can probably find a better deal out there too. I'd be a little hesitant personally to spend a lot. We'll go to ABUs in probably 3-4 years. I know I can get by w/o absolutely needing a jacket for that period. But, if you need it & think you'll get good use out of it then by all means. Make sure you hunt up a good deal though.
I would go so far as to suggest that you ask who the actual manufacturer of the garment is, and if it is first-run or factory second.
If it says "Propper" on the tag, whether a second or not, you're probably ok, however if it says: "دولة إسرائيل" it may be cheap junk or not meet the uniform specs. A certain popular unofficial vendor is notorious for selling pac-rim knockoffs of woodland which are noticeably less quality.
As an example, a local surplus store sells Israeli woodland camo BDU shirts - the labels are in Hebrew and the shirts have epaulets. I'm told the epaulets come off easily, but its always funny to see new members show up with these shirts.
On the secondary market, the prices are likely low enough to make up for the risk, but anything I buy from an online source that purports to be new and is charging me full price should be selling 1st rate stuff or indicating otherwise.
Technically uniforms are supposed to have USAF certification labels attached or stamped on them in order to be acceptable... but I do not believe BDUs etc, and ECWCS bare the same certification that the service uniforms do.
The big difference b/w mil spec and issue is issue is made in the US.
While an individual can wear uniforms as long as they are AF certified, the gov't can only buy American made gear.
Both suits will be made by Propper to gov't spec, but the AF can only use funds to buy the US suits. Individuals can buy the ones made in Honduras, but not the gov't.
Quote from: ddelaney103 on December 26, 2007, 03:02:03 PM
The big difference b/w mil spec and issue is issue is made in the US.
While an individual can wear uniforms as long as they are AF certified, the gov't can only buy American made gear.
Both suits will be made by Propper to gov't spec, but the AF can only use funds to buy the US suits. Individuals can buy the ones made in Honduras, but not the gov't.
Are you sure on that? What about insignia like patches, pins, etc.
When I walk the NAVEx or order stuff from Vanguard and other places, a shockingly high amount is made in China...
The whole point about the govt purchasing only uniforms made in the USA is correct. Look up the Berry Amendment for more background. This, however, doesn't prevent a soldier/sailor/marine/airman from buying uniforms made in a foreign country. I just checked out all the Vanguard stuff (like 10 diff. packages of rank insignia and AFSC badges) that I have and I can't find anything on the packaging that says where it's made.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 26, 2007, 03:29:06 PM
Are you sure on that? What about insignia like patches, pins, etc.
When I walk the NAVEx or order stuff from Vanguard and other places, a shockingly high amount is made in China...
As long as an individual is buying them, it's in compliance with the law. Those items are being purchased with personal funds, and there are no restrictions.
Now the Navy supply system can't use their government credit card to get a few from Mil-Clothing if the insignia have "Made In China" on them. Then the government isn't buying American.
What about all those Army berets that were made in China when they first rolled out the black beret bling program?
Quote from: Pylon on December 26, 2007, 05:28:40 PM
What about all those Army berets that were made in China when they first rolled out the black beret bling program?
They're still sitting in a warehouse in Pennsylvania. Unless, they got around to actually sending them back.
Those berets were never issued.
Just wish the rest hadn't been either.
Quote from: MIKE on December 26, 2007, 02:16:41 AM
Technically uniforms are supposed to have USAF certification labels attached or stamped on them in order to be acceptable... but I do not believe BDUs etc, and ECWCS bare the same certification that the service uniforms do.
Hate to do this to a moderator, but regulation citation please!
CAPM 39-1 1-8. e.
Thank you much. I'm betting that that is one of the most un-enforced regulations we have.
Quote from: RiverAux on December 26, 2007, 07:36:46 PM
Thank you much. I'm betting that that is one of the most un-enforced regulations we have.
I had a member ask about this a few years back (a former Army 1-star, actually). What I told him was that if we ever get to the point, as an organization, where the only thing we can gig people on uniform-wise is country-of-origin, we're pretty much in good shape. ;D
MilSpec and Issue differences are simple.
The DoD decides to hold bids for contract for manufacture and supply of equipment.
Specifications for the item are listed in the proposal.
Manufacturers submit bids. All bids must meet all required specifications listed in proposal.
DoD selects contractor(s) based on many factors, mostly financial.
All those who aren't selected as original contractors produce item to same specs, but are not issued by military to personnel.
So... it's basically the same stuff, but wasn't cheap enough for the military to contract.
For example... US Army contracts for Infantry Combat Boots. Two manufacturers are selected for procurement of such boots (nearly identical boot). Belleville and Wellco. Other companies make ICBs to same or better specs, such as Danner and Bates, but were not selected for issue contract. Those boots are authorized for wear by military personnel, but are not issued to military personnel by the Army.