CAP Talk

General Discussion => The Lobby => Topic started by: zippy on July 21, 2017, 02:03:26 AM

Title: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: zippy on July 21, 2017, 02:03:26 AM
Do CAP units still have intelligence officers? I did a search and the only CAP unit intelligence officers I could find were in old World War II and 1950s CAP newsletters.

What intel training is there online? Aerial photography interpretation?
Any use for knowledge of languages?

I saw a current course with a lesson in "GATHERING CYBER INTELLIGENCE."

Anything in regard to topics such as knowing enemy air plane silhouettes such as below.
(http://l7.alamy.com/zooms/f11e744752244f7fa0ed549cc76bbecf/a-chart-of-silhouettes-for-aiding-recognition-of-japanese-aircraft-ceg6et.jpg)

Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: SarDragon on July 21, 2017, 02:09:03 AM
Pretty much nope for all of the above.

The only currently functional item - Aerial photography interpretation - is performed by the customer, based on their requirements. We shoot the pics, they do what they need with them.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: EMT-83 on July 21, 2017, 11:50:46 AM
Looked at it quickly and thought you were asking about intelligent officers. That's an entirely different conversation.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: dwb on July 21, 2017, 01:40:16 PM
We don't have any need for those, either. ;D
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: AlphaSigOU on July 21, 2017, 05:07:01 PM
No need for G-2/A-2/S-2 in CAP.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: zippy on July 22, 2017, 03:28:49 PM
I can't find any CAP Intelligence Officers in any CAP magazine or newsletter after 1950.
What I did find out was when the Air Force broke off from the Army in the late 1940s Army Air Force Intelligence became the Air Force Security Service. It then reverted back to Intelligence in its name in 1991 as the Air Force Intelligence Command.

So I speculate that CAP just followed the newly created Air Force verbiage and dropped the word "intelligence." The Army's equivalent of CAP, the State Guards, has Intelligence Officers.

ARMY - Military Intelligence Corps
NAVY - Naval Intelligence
AIR FORCE - Air Force Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Agency

The Air Force, unlike other branches, divides up parts of spying in the name. After the founding of the Air Force, much of what the Army included as "Intelligence" was not considered to be so by the Air Force, but it seems over the years this has changed a bit.

As far as I can tell, the two closest in today's CAP is Information Technology Officer (cryptography) and Operations Officer. There is a course includes gathering "intelligence" which is part of Technology Officer training.

If I am wrong about any of this, please let me know.

(https://image.slidesharecdn.com/sainnovaitonwarrior-140327170555-phpapp01/95/sa-innovaiton-warrior-30-638.jpg?cb=1395946891)
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: dwb on July 22, 2017, 05:14:10 PM
AFISRA is called 25 AF now.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. CAP doesn't have an intelligence mission in the traditional use of the word.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: coudano on July 22, 2017, 06:58:56 PM
AFISRA is called 25 AF now.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. CAP doesn't have an intelligence mission in the traditional use of the word.

IMO there's room for one (things like radar analysis, ntap and cell team notwithstanding...)
But I think we have enough irons in the fire.  It would have to provide enough value to core missions to justify itself.

We could probably stand some, uh, professionalization in the realm of setting up our collection decks.
And we have a pretty large crowd from which to crowdsource things, that is going mostly untapped right now.

Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: etodd on July 22, 2017, 09:51:56 PM
AFISRA is called 25 AF now.

I'm not sure what you're looking for here. CAP doesn't have an intelligence mission in the traditional use of the word.

IMO there's room for one (things like radar analysis, ntap and cell team notwithstanding...)
But I think we have enough irons in the fire.  It would have to provide enough value to core missions to justify itself.

We could probably stand some, uh, professionalization in the realm of setting up our collection decks.
And we have a pretty large crowd from which to crowdsource things, that is going mostly untapped right now.

Seems to me something so specialized needs full time paid folks. That will be there in a moments notice. We can plenty of folks to choose from to chase an ELT or take photos. But highly specialized areas, not so sure.

A related question.  The cell phone team does some incredible work, but how large is the team? How many are being trained to take their place when they retire or become unable?

Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: CAPLTC on July 23, 2017, 11:13:53 AM
Nope.
No S2/G2/J2 functions in CAP.
The USAF uses CAP's overhead/arial imagery capabilities specifically because no Title-50 intelligence review is required.
Because CAP has no intelligence function nor authority whatsoever, the imagery we collect is 100% sharable and usable by everyone everywhere.

We do have to worry about threats/hazards and constantly do risk management... but there is no need or place for an S2/G2/J2 shop in doing that.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: Eclipse on July 23, 2017, 11:16:10 AM
Nope.
No S2/G2/J2 functions in CAP.
The USAF uses CAP's overhead/arial imagery capabilities specifically because no Title-50 intelligence review is required.
Because CAP has no intelligence function nor authority whatsoever, the imagery we collect is 100% sharable and usable by everyone everywhere.

Which imagery?

Photos taken during mission work belong to the customer and can only be released publicly with their permission.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: CAPLTC on September 10, 2017, 09:29:39 AM
Any disaster-related imagery.
We see ALL of it on public-facing portals almost immediately.
If CAP formally had any sort of Title-50 role for the planes, that couldn't happen.
There are some missions, obviously, where the images won't see the light of day ... but that is collected under different authorities.

LSU's hurricane tracker too... I just don't have the link handy:
HIFLD for Irma Open Data Site (#HIFLD4Irma)
https://respond-irma-geoplatform.opendata.arcgis.com/ (https://respond-irma-geoplatform.opendata.arcgis.com/)

Florida State Emergency Response Team (SERT) Open Data Portal
http://geodata.floridadisaster.org/ (http://geodata.floridadisaster.org/)

FL SERT Hurricane Irma Open Data and Apps Portal
http://geodata.floridadisaster.org/pages/hurricane-irma (http://geodata.floridadisaster.org/pages/hurricane-irma)

Florida SERT Essential Elements of Information Web Map
https://maps.floridadisaster.org/eei/?t=1&m=1&x=-84.76&y=27.88&l=7 (https://maps.floridadisaster.org/eei/?t=1&m=1&x=-84.76&y=27.88&l=7)

Florida SERT Hurricane Evacuation Zones
https://floridadisaster.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=c788060028cb43809a25744ead39c0d6 (https://floridadisaster.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=c788060028cb43809a25744ead39c0d6)

GEMA Hurricane Map Journal:
http://gema-soc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapJournal/index.html?appid=0915d23c654148a6b568776b641abdc3 (http://gema-soc.maps.arcgis.com/apps/MapJournal/index.html?appid=0915d23c654148a6b568776b641abdc3)

GEMA Virtual Situation Room:
https://share.dhs.gov/irma_gema/ (https://share.dhs.gov/irma_gema/)

Which imagery?
Photos taken during mission work belong to the customer and can only be released publicly with their permission.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: ol'fido on September 11, 2017, 01:25:22 PM
I will dive on for the rare post:

I have heard of some wings having what they call a Mission Intelligence Team for lost aircraft REDCAPs. The job seems to be to take all the tips, rumors, sightings, target info, radar plots, etc and work it up to give the IC the best idea of where to put his resources. I have no info beyond that as to organization, methods, or scope of this activity.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: wacapgh on September 11, 2017, 02:41:51 PM
Already defined in NIMS/ICS

https://emilms.fema.gov/IS700aNEW/NIMS0105180text2.htm (https://emilms.fema.gov/IS700aNEW/NIMS0105180text2.htm)

Planning Section in general, and the Situation Unit if needed:

"The Planning Section is normally responsible for gathering and disseminating information and intelligence critical to the incident, unless the Incident Commander/Unified Command places this function elsewhere."

"Situation Unit: Responsible for the collection, organization, and analysis of incident status information, and for analysis of the situation as it progresses."
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: CAPLTC on September 11, 2017, 07:51:10 PM
Already defined in NIMS/ICS

https://emilms.fema.gov/IS700aNEW/NIMS0105180text2.htm (https://emilms.fema.gov/IS700aNEW/NIMS0105180text2.htm)

Planning Section in general, and the Situation Unit if needed:

"The Planning Section is normally responsible for gathering and disseminating information and intelligence critical to the incident, unless the Incident Commander/Unified Command places this function elsewhere."

"Situation Unit: Responsible for the collection, organization, and analysis of incident status information, and for analysis of the situation as it progresses."

Yes!
Exactly what you said.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: MisterCD on September 12, 2017, 09:02:54 AM
Closest descendant to the CAP intel officers of World War II are the CAP historians. Responsibility for preparing the annual history for units often fell on the shoulders of the intel officer. Some public affairs aspects did as well, depending on the size of the unit, but not always.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on September 12, 2017, 09:51:58 AM
All the histories I have read, were prepared by their commanding officers. No credit to their Intel Officer.

762nd Anti Aircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Semi mobile)
766th Anti Aircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Semi mobile)
862nd Anti Aircraft Artillery Gun Battalion (Semi mobile)
Some others as well.

No doubt that some may have been written by Intelligence or Operations, see
3rd Infantry Division, see https://archive.org/details/HistoryOfTheThirdID, by the G-2 and G-3.

Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: Eclipse on September 12, 2017, 09:55:18 AM
Already defined in NIMS/ICS

https://emilms.fema.gov/IS700aNEW/NIMS0105180text2.htm (https://emilms.fema.gov/IS700aNEW/NIMS0105180text2.htm)

Planning Section in general, and the Situation Unit if needed:

"The Planning Section is normally responsible for gathering and disseminating information and intelligence critical to the incident, unless the Incident Commander/Unified Command places this function elsewhere."

"Situation Unit: Responsible for the collection, organization, and analysis of incident status information, and for analysis of the situation as it progresses."

Yes!
Exactly what you said.

Why do people feel the need to reinvent a perfectly round, already existent wheel?
Let me guess...there's a patch?
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on September 12, 2017, 10:41:55 AM
Because they may feel the name or title does not fit exactly the responsibilities or acts?

They should try to understand they have to fit titles, responsibilities, names before they decide it does not fit.

Sometimes -- and this may be more prevalent -- they just do not investigate whether there is something that already fits the situation.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: SarDragon on September 12, 2017, 12:32:36 PM
Histories are #signed# by commanding officers. They are rarely, if ever, directly prepared by same.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: Luis R. Ramos on September 12, 2017, 12:54:25 PM
The histories can be prepared by the commanding officer, like I said, as on those histories of the regiments I stated.

One thing is "By" and another is "Signed," and yet another is "Prepared by."

Reread the history of the 3rd Infantry Div. The commander "Signed it" but credit was given to G-2 and G-3, Acting Chiefs of Staff for Intel and Ops.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: LSThiker on September 12, 2017, 01:12:04 PM
All the histories I have read, were prepared by their commanding officers. No credit to their Intel Officer.

As a person that has written unit histories for the military, none were credited to me.  They were written by me and signed by the commander.  No mention of me preparing it.  So if any person looks at it 10, 20, 30 or 50 years from now, they might get the wrong impression that it was written by the commander, when in fact it was written by me.

Bottom line, just because there was no mention of the history being written by another, do not make the assumption it was.  Chances are, the history was written by another person and signed by the commander.  Sure, there may be some written by the commander but I would not hedge my bet on it.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: TarRiverRat on September 13, 2017, 11:06:56 PM
I know that at CPB16, in Manteo, that the Intelligence Officer kept up with everything that went on at the field.  I have seen the S2 journal for them, online, and they would have entries such as "14 March 1942 Lt. Joe Blow from Rocky Mount dropped off airplane parts and barbecue."  It seems they wrote down anything that occurred concerning their operations of the field and any missions that were performed.  Not matter if Suzy Q came to see her husband, or certain items were ordered for the field, or what missions were flown and if anything was sited. I actually found several entries of Barbecue from Rocky Mount that was either brought or sent for.  Quite and interesting read.  I need to see if I can find that link again.
Title: Re: Intel Officers in Units? Intel Training?
Post by: TarRiverRat on September 13, 2017, 11:09:02 PM
Can be found here:

http://history.cap.gov/document/118