Usually the uniform for National and Wing conference banquets is mess dress for seniors. In DCWG it was "mess dress or your best CAP dress", i.e. you could wear a short-sleeve blues shirt if that's all you had. But DCWG is smaller than some groups. So what about larger wings like TX, CA and FL?
Is it acceptable to wear Service Dress to the banquet if you don't have Mess Dress? Or is it more acceptable to wear a civilian suit?
I don't even have mess dress for the Air Force, I'll be [darn]ed if I'm buying a set for CAP.
Thoughts? Experiences at a FLWG conference and banquet?
At the banquet during the FLWG conference you'll find seniors Service Dress and Short Sleeve blues frequently. I personally have worn Semi-Formal (as a cadet) and the corporate equiv, and finally Mess Dress at my last FLWG conference.
This is coming from someone who has been to every FLWG conference since 2002 (might have been 2001, depends which one was in Sarasota) except for this last one (Didn't feel like asking my MTL for time off).
Well, it looks like I might see you there...
My tentative plan is to wear Mess Dress to the banquet (if I get everything squared away in time), but I've heard of many others planning to wear everything from the formal version of the blazer uniform, to a civilian suit, to service dress-- women have it easier in that most just wear a gown/dress. If you are in the market for Mess Dress, I've seen a variety on eBay going for surprisingly low ($10-40 for the full set) amounts. I guess a lot of it boils down to what you would be comfortable wearing and what you have available.
Most of the banquets I've been to, service dress or civilian equivalent was worn. A few mess dress (some of the guys who are Air Force officers have worn their AF Mess), but not many.
Personal opinion only - service dress, service or blazer for the conference itself and mess dress, formal blazer or blazer for the banquet. I wore the formal blazer once and I realized I was the only one wearing it so I've given up on that option. There's certainly nothing wrong with a nice dark suit for the banquet in lieu of the uniform options I've listed. I don't own a mess dress and have no intention of acquiring one. Then I've seen members attending both the conference and the banquet in golf shirts. Perhaps they have nothing else - go figure.
Quote from: Camas on November 30, 2011, 05:21:12 AM
Then I've seen members attending both the conference and the banquet in golf shirts.
Conference I can understand. But the banquet? That seems kind of tacky.
The next time I do a banquet, I'm wearing my tux. I wore the formal blazer a couple of times, and felt way underdressed.
Quote from: Stonewall on November 30, 2011, 02:44:59 AM
Is it acceptable to wear Service Dress to the banquet if you don't have Mess Dress?
I find that acceptable. I think of it as a fellowship with our friends and I would hate to see someone not attend because of lack of uniform options.
A long long time ago, I think '95 or '96, the the NHQ conference and banquet was in DC. I attended during the day and had paid for the banquet at night. I was a poor, working college student and had service dress. No problem. I had no idea mess dress was in order for the banquet and showed in service dress. People stared big time. I have never felt so uncomfortable in my CAP life.
Someone suggested a dark suit in lieu of mess dress. Um, isn't the service dress a "dark suit" of sorts?
Honestly, I don't even have a CAP service coat right now. I've got one for the AF, of course, because it was issued to me. But I sold my CAP service coat a few years ago to someone who needed it. Maybe I just won't go to the banquet. I have a free place to stay (best friend lives there), so the cost is minimal for me. I just can't see dropping hundreds of dollars for a [potentiall] one time event.
WOW!
The men's officer service coat costs more than the mess dress coat by $5.00.
Enlisted service coat is $96 and the officers is $180. Crazy! Maybe I'll wear my Air Force semi-formal option to the banquet. Be a Lt Col by day and a TSgt (should be MSgt by then) at night.
Stonewall, check around. I've seen some for as low as 40$.
Once I get home I'll get you links.
What size uniform do you wear? I would lend you my Service or Mess dress if it fit you. ( Although you would have to buy a bunch more medals than I have for the Mess Dress) I doubt I will need it any time soon.
Major Lord
I wear a 44 long (can do regular) coat and 36w/34l pants.
I'll check on some service dress/mess dress options for you as I remember seeing those sizes recently.
I live here in Tampa as well-- is your friend a member of CAP? (Just curious if I might know him) I have to admit, the convenience of it being held here is certainly a nice benefit, and a lot of members likewise seem happy and plan to attend as (all things considered) it seems to be an overall less-expensive endeavor then the Orlando option.
Quote from: DBlair on November 30, 2011, 06:26:30 PMI live here in Tampa as well-- is your friend a member of CAP? (Just curious if I might know him).
Not a CAPer. He's been my best friend since around 6 years old (1979-ish). He's a doctor down there.
I saw just as much service dress as I did mess dress, perhaps even moreso, among the senior members at the conference I went to a few years ago. Plus a healthy splash of corporate blazer for the round n' fuzzy ones :)
I myself wore service dress with full ribbons (no "some" allowed, all or none per 39-1) and full size wings and didn't feel out of place. Granted I was a bit jealous of those who were wearing mess dress because I find it to be a very sharp-looking uniform.
Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2011, 08:20:29 PM
I myself wore service dress with full ribbons (no "some" allowed, all or none per 39-1)
Actually, for seniors, it is "all or some," so "none" is not allowed. Wear at least one ribbon, but you are not required to wear all.
Quote from: ß τ ε on November 30, 2011, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2011, 08:20:29 PM
I myself wore service dress with full ribbons (no "some" allowed, all or none per 39-1)
Actually, for seniors, it is "all or some," so "none" is not allowed. Wear at least one ribbon, but you are not required to wear all.
*peers* I stand corrected. Ah well, I always wear all or none as we enforce the loaner rule with my squadron whenever you receive a new ribbon or get promoted, so the short ribbon bars get turned back into the squadron.
Quote from: ß τ ε on November 30, 2011, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2011, 08:20:29 PM
I myself wore service dress with full ribbons (no "some" allowed, all or none per 39-1)
Actually, for seniors, it is "all or some," so "none" is not allowed. Wear at least one ribbon, but you are not required to wear all.
"all" would be impossible for some of us with "everthing below the notch in the lapel" rule.
Even with me going four across I am pushing it.
Quote from: Stonewall on November 30, 2011, 05:46:13 PM
I wear a 44 long (can do regular) coat and 36w/34l pants.
Close. I am a 46 Long. I am not sure what my matching shade dress pants are, but you can get away with the wrong shade....I am 6-3, 220 Lbs, so if thats close and you want to borrow them, contact me off list and I will send it out.
Major Lord
Quote from: lordmonar on November 30, 2011, 09:02:18 PM
Quote from: ß τ ε on November 30, 2011, 08:30:20 PM
Quote from: Brad on November 30, 2011, 08:20:29 PM
I myself wore service dress with full ribbons (no "some" allowed, all or none per 39-1)
Actually, for seniors, it is "all or some," so "none" is not allowed. Wear at least one ribbon, but you are not required to wear all.
"all" would be impossible for some of us with "everthing below the notch in the lapel" rule.
Even with me going four across I am pushing it.
That's why they make right-shifted racks for! :)
Quote from: lordmonar on November 30, 2011, 09:02:18 PM
"all" would be impossible for some of us with "everthing below the notch in the lapel" rule.
Even with me going four across I am pushing it.
You're not one of those who wears military and CAP ribbons are you? If I did that I'd have 39 ribbons (23 military/16 CAP).
Quote from: Stonewall on November 30, 2011, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 30, 2011, 09:02:18 PM
"all" would be impossible for some of us with "everthing below the notch in the lapel" rule.
Even with me going four across I am pushing it.
You're not one of those who wears military and CAP ribbons are you? If I did that I'd have 39 ribbons (23 military/16 CAP).
Well.....all is all is it not?
On my mess dress I wear all...but on my blues I don't because I too have something like 40 or so ribbons.....have not counted lately.
Quote from: Stonewall on November 30, 2011, 09:49:16 PM
Quote from: lordmonar on November 30, 2011, 09:02:18 PM
"all" would be impossible for some of us with "everthing below the notch in the lapel" rule.
Even with me going four across I am pushing it.
You're not one of those who wears military and CAP ribbons are you? If I did that I'd have 39 ribbons (23 military/16 CAP).
I can't do it with my CAP ribbons and badges. I end up taking off a badge to make space.
What do you do for ribbon racks when you have over 32 ribbons? I don't want to get a custom made rack and I am not sure putting two racks together will look decent.
Quote from: Short Field on November 30, 2011, 11:59:26 PM
What do you do for ribbon racks when you have over 32 ribbons? I don't want to get a custom made rack and I am not sure putting two racks together will look decent.
Get two and clue them together with popsicle sticks. >:D
Quote from: Short Field on November 30, 2011, 11:59:26 PM
What do you do for ribbon racks when you have over 32 ribbons? I don't want to get a custom made rack and I am not sure putting two racks together will look decent.
I know a ROTC cadet that has so many he uses 3 ribbon racks.... The ribbons go down his back. ::)
The one goes to the top, then uses another to go flat across his shoulder then another going upside down on his back.
To be honest, it looks really bad.
Moral of the story: just wear the ones you are proud of, and store the rest away.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on December 01, 2011, 01:16:01 AM
Quote from: Short Field on November 30, 2011, 11:59:26 PM
What do you do for ribbon racks when you have over 32 ribbons? I don't want to get a custom made rack and I am not sure putting two racks together will look decent.
I know a ROTC cadet that has so many he uses 3 ribbon racks.... The ribbons go down his back. ::)
The one goes to the top, then uses another to go flat across his shoulder then another going upside down on his back.
To be honest, it looks really bad.
Moral of the story: just wear the ones you are proud of, and store the rest away.
Pics or it didn't happen ;).
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on December 01, 2011, 01:16:01 AM
Quote from: Short Field on November 30, 2011, 11:59:26 PM
What do you do for ribbon racks when you have over 32 ribbons? I don't want to get a custom made rack and I am not sure putting two racks together will look decent.
I know a ROTC cadet that has so many he uses 3 ribbon racks.... The ribbons go down his back. ::)
The one goes to the top, then uses another to go flat across his shoulder then another going upside down on his back.
To be honest, it looks really bad.
Moral of the story: just wear the ones you are proud of, and store the rest away.
Did they have a sale at the BX or Vanguard?
I always have worn service dress for both the conference and the banquet and it was just fine.
In fact, for the classes at the conference I left my service dress blouse in the garment bag and just wore the long-sleeve shirt and tie.
One year the guest speaker was an AFRES Brigadier General and he wore service dress.
I've only seen a handful of mess dress-wearers at any conference, and most permutations of the blazer gig, but I have never seen anyone wearing golf shirts at a banquet!
Quote from: Short Field on November 30, 2011, 11:59:26 PM
What do you do for ribbon racks when you have over 32 ribbons? I don't want to get a custom made rack and I am not sure putting two racks together will look decent.
Try this:
https://www.ultrathin.com/index.htm (https://www.ultrathin.com/index.htm)
I've dealt with them in the past and they do good work...and they offer a rackbuilder with both AF and CAP ribbons.
Just to test it I put together one with 32 ribbons and it works.
The standard four row large rack holds 32 ribbons. I also don't care for ultra-thins.
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on December 01, 2011, 01:16:01 AM
The one goes to the top, then uses another to go flat across his shoulder then another going upside down on his back.
What commander would allow that to exist for more than 30 seconds in his sight?
Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2011, 04:49:14 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on December 01, 2011, 01:16:01 AM
The one goes to the top, then uses another to go flat across his shoulder then another going upside down on his back.
What commander would allow that to exist for more than 30 seconds in his sight?
You're being generous. I'd figure about six and a half.
Quote from: Hawk200 on December 01, 2011, 05:13:48 AM
Quote from: Eclipse on December 01, 2011, 04:49:14 AM
Quote from: Extremepredjudice on December 01, 2011, 01:16:01 AM
The one goes to the top, then uses another to go flat across his shoulder then another going upside down on his back.
What commander would allow that to exist for more than 30 seconds in his sight?
You're being generous. I'd figure about six and a half.
I'd give a full five minutes. Four to stop laughing, 30 seconds to take a picture and 30 secs to let him take it off.
Quote from: Short Field on December 01, 2011, 04:36:32 AM
The standard four row large rack holds 32 ribbons. I also don't care for ultra-thins.
I have heard several people as of late say they do not care for ultra-thins. May I ask you why you don't?
Quote from: CyBorg on December 01, 2011, 03:13:44 AM
Quote from: Short Field on November 30, 2011, 11:59:26 PM
What do you do for ribbon racks when you have over 32 ribbons? I don't want to get a custom made rack and I am not sure putting two racks together will look decent.
Try this:
https://www.ultrathin.com/index.htm (https://www.ultrathin.com/index.htm)
I've dealt with them in the past and they do good work...and they offer a rackbuilder with both AF and CAP ribbons.
Just to test it I put together one with 32 ribbons and it works.
Does not work past 40 ribbons.....So I would have to call them to special order. ???
Quote from: NCRblues on December 01, 2011, 05:23:46 AM
Quote from: Short Field on December 01, 2011, 04:36:32 AM
The standard four row large rack holds 32 ribbons. I also don't care for ultra-thins.
I have heard several people as of late say they do not care for ultra-thins. May I ask you why you don't?
some of the ones I've seen were so bowed inward they looked like a piece of old cardboard with ribbons glued to them.
and some looked sharp and straight.
I suppose it's all about the quality and how you take care of it, just like with anything else.
I like them because I find them easier to take care of, and the magnetic attachment makes it easier to position them properly on my uniforms, and doesn't leave any pin holes.
I take care of them the way I've always taken care of my ribbons...a light dusting of Scotchgard keeps them a lot cleaner and helps keep them from fraying.
There are downsides, like having to get a new set whenever you get new bling. For that reason I don't recommend them to cadets, since they tend to get ribbons a lot more frequently than seniors as they move through their achievements. I recently got another clasp for my Red Service Ribbon, so I got another set.
You do have to be careful with the magnets, because they are very powerful.
Note: they also sell magnetic CAP nameplates in both grey and blue...