A member in a sister squadron has been waiting nearly 7 months for a professional appointment. Her squadron commander has pushed for a resolution through the chain of command – the group CC. What options does she have to get her appointment approved? Can she go directly to NHQ?
Quote from: captrncap on February 12, 2006, 04:55:02 AM
A member in a sister squadron has been waiting nearly 7 months for a professional appointment. Her squadron commander has pushed for a resolution through the chain of command – the group CC. What options does she have to get her appointment approved? Can she go directly to NHQ?
I know where to look, but have you looked in the reg?
Quote from: captrncap on February 12, 2006, 04:55:02 AM
A member in a sister squadron has been waiting nearly 7 months for a professional appointment. Her squadron commander has pushed for a resolution through the chain of command – the group CC. What options does she have to get her appointment approved? Can she go directly to NHQ?
What State is this person in?
I know where to look, but have you looked in the reg?
[/quote]
Per NHQ - Response (Administrator) - 09/14/2005 09:11 PM
For Health Service Personnel: Upon successful completion of Level I
and CPPT, unit commanders may initiate a CAPF 2 on health service
personnel recommending appointment to an appropriate grade. The member's
qualifications will be evaluated by the wing health service program officer,
who will provide his or her comments and recommendations to the wing
commander prior to approval. There is no waiting period and individual
would be eligible to wear the rank as soon as the process is completed.
New York - That is what I expected the answer to be.
Everyone that I speak to in NY has the same story to tell. Things sitting at NYW for months without any action. I have witnessed several instances myself.
It is outrageous that members have to wait any longer than 30 days for any promotion to be processed, and seven months is beyond explanation. The new paperwork reduction procedures allow the NYWCC to simply email the promotion request to NHQ which they process within hours.
Several folks have already contacted the NER CC and IG about this, I would suggest that this person do the same. The contact information is on the NER website.
This not only affects the current promotion but also all subsequent promotions because of the time in grade provisions of the regulations.
Our volunteers deserve better than this and the leadership should not stand by and let this happen to their subordinates.
But on the same token is the person requesting promotion using those skills to benefit CAP? If the answer is "no" then it probably has been declined. Professional appointments to higher grade are neither automatic or guaranteed. I've seen numerous promotion requests like this turned down because of that reason.
Other items that hold up the promotion process is lack of supporting documentation and required training.
Quote from: Major_Chuck on February 12, 2006, 06:42:04 PM
But on the same token is the person requesting promotion using those skills to benefit CAP? If the answer is "no" then it probably has been declined. Professional appointments to higher grade are neither automatic or guaranteed. I've seen numerous promotion requests like this turned down because of that reason.
Other items that hold up the promotion process is lack of supporting documentation and required training.
The problem in NY is that they are neither processed nor denied, they just sit in limbo while the member waits without word.
Quote from: captrncap on February 12, 2006, 03:23:33 PM
Quote from: shorning on February 12, 2006, 04:55:02 AMI know where to look, but have you looked in the reg?
Per NHQ - Response (Administrator) - 09/14/2005 09:11 PM
For Health Service Personnel: Upon successful completion of Level I
and CPPT, unit commanders may initiate a CAPF 2 on health service
personnel recommending appointment to an appropriate grade. The member's
qualifications will be evaluated by the wing health service program officer,
who will provide his or her comments and recommendations to the wing
commander prior to approval. There is no waiting period and individual
would be eligible to wear the rank as soon as the process is completed.
Okay, but that's not the procedure from the reg. What does this tell you about how to process a professional appointment? Read the reg and the message you quoted, and you should be able to figure out how it should be processed.
Yeah, I could tell you, but I honestly think you'll learn the process if you research it yourself.
Have the person transfer to my squadron and I will process the promotion and then they can transfer back to your squadron, taking their rank with them. (Still game playing, but at least it is beneficial to the individual adn local unit).
Wouldn't be the first time... for sure.
Just got recent an update...The member's promotion was denied by wing since on the CAPF 2 the current duty assignment was missing but section 4 did indicated it was for Medical Officer. The member also submitted a resume with the unit duty assignment (as medical officer) and prior work history.
Not sure what happens next. I guess it will need to be resubmitted. Probably take another 6 months...
My opinion is that is it just NYW playing games.
Quote from: captrncap on February 14, 2006, 01:19:49 AMMy opinion is that is it just NYW playing games.
Games? Maybe, but they wouldn't have had that particular problem if the paperwork had been filled out correctly in the first place. Attention to detail...
Quote from: shorning on February 14, 2006, 05:10:26 AM
Quote from: captrncap on February 14, 2006, 01:19:49 AMMy opinion is that is it just NYW playing games.
Games? Maybe, but they wouldn't have had that particular problem if the paperwork had been filled out correctly in the first place. Attention to detail...
The last time I checked (about 5 minutes ago), duty assignment was not a mandatory block on the Form 2.
It's not mandatory for most things, but for advanced promotions like HSO, Legal, etc, where one of the requirements is that the receipient be serving in that role, it is necessary to prove that the member is contributing their serves to the unit and is worhty of the promotion. It's also where the wg/cc will look for this proof.
All of these promotions are at the discretion of the wing commander. Here's an example: pilots with advanced rating are eligible for advanced promotion. In CO, we had a large number of them join, get Capt, then just fly the a/c, no ES participation, no O-Flights, just proficiency flying. The wing commander came out and stated that he will no longer grant advanced promotions to pilots unless they are actually supporting the unit. The senior squadron I left, suddenly had a large interest in staff assignments. Go figure.
Yeah, but let's not get carried away here.
First of all, if the paperwork was wrong when it was submitted, the member should have been made aware of it immediately, instead of having it sit in the never-moving queue for months on end.
Second, while technically the block was empty, the professional development officer could have taken a little ambition to contact the submitter to move the paperwork along smoother, instead of rejecting it out of hand (again, months later).
The problem of paperwork disappearing from Wing HQ is widely known in New York, and it's not limited to people who forgot to fill in a box.
On the other hand, I definitely agree with making professional appointment people prove that they're going to be useful to the organization, and not just walking in and expecting a rank. Whatever form that proof takes is up for debate, but the concept is a good one.
Quote
Games? Maybe, but they wouldn't have had that particular problem if the paperwork had been filled out correctly in the first place. Attention to detail...
Attention to detail is not the issue here, timely processing of paperwork is the issue. If the paperwork was indeed wrong, it should have been rejected within a couple of weeks, not seven months.
I don't thnk that anyone is asking for a free lunch here, just the support from Wing that they deserve.
I agree that the time frame for a response was too great I don't feel it is right to slam the wing DA or DP at the same tme. Especially when they are not here to defend themselves.
Besides the forms being incomplete where they submitted electronically or hardcopy. I know for a fact that National Headquarters will refuse and not process anything but an electronic form at this point. Also how long was the request sitting in Squadron/Group/Wing commanders 'in boxes' before moving forward to region levels.
I think the point here is that if NYW had just said the field was missing (and required) within a reasonable time frame (30 days???) it could have been resubmitted correctly or the could have contact the unit/group cc for clarification before an out right denial. The member also sent in supporting documentation with the form.
The member now has to wait in limbo again.
Quote from: Major_Chuck on February 14, 2006, 05:34:37 PM
I agree that the time frame for a response was too great I don't feel it is right to slam the wing DA or DP at the same tme. Especially when they are not here to defend themselves.
Besides the forms being incomplete where they submitted electronically or hardcopy. I know for a fact that National Headquarters will refuse and not process anything but an electronic form at this point. Also how long was the request sitting in Squadron/Group/Wing commanders 'in boxes' before moving forward to region levels.
Had this been an isolated incident, I would be willing to give everyone the benefit of the doubt. The problem is that everything in NYW has been sitting in limbo for months without any clue as to why. This includes changes of command and other very important matters way more pressing than a promotion (not to say that this is not important).
4-5 months is the norm, not the exception. We can pick every item apart and speculate as to why, but the bottom line is that the members are not being supported by the Wing CC.
Quote from: groundpounder on February 14, 2006, 06:53:14 PM...but the bottom line is that the members are not being supported by the Wing CC.
Which is a path we've already been down
ad nauseam on these forums...
(for reference, my change of command form was just over four months, which I consider to be unacceptable)
Well, obviously being from another region I can't really comment on specifics that you're dealing with but I understand completely your frustration.