2d Lt versus 2nd Lt

[1775]

I'm new to the Civil Air Patrol.  I was prior Air Force in my younger days.
My question is, if CAP follows the rank structure of the USAF why is the rank of Second Lieutenant abbreviated in CAP as "2d Lt"?  In the USAF the rank of Second Lieutenant is, "2nd Lt".  My curiosity gets the better of me sometimes.

[goblin]

You would be incorrect. The AF Tongue and Quill abbreviates it as 2d Lt.

[Luis R. Ramos]

If you remember in the USAF there was a manual, regulation, or pamphlet for everything. So is in the CAP.

Go to this link, http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R010_003_F913DBF0A1A62.pdf on Administrative Authorizations, CAPR 10-3 look on Figure 4, Personnel Authorizations and look at all the CAP grade abbreviations.

You will not find 2d Lt or 2nd Lt. Those are being carried over by members with prior service that have not bothered to read the CAP regs nor learn the CAP way.

Each service wants to be able to say who is the originator of a message, and what is their background. Maybe that is the reason why previous service members do not want to learn the CAP way on this...

[Edited to add the following]

I do not want to nuke my initial post, so I am leaving it intact.

After looking for a more persuasive comparison, I would agree with Goblin.

Read The Tongue and Quill. After all, this is the standard for preparing CAP publications. Link to said publication,

http://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/saf_cio_a6/publication/afh33-337/afh33-337.pdf

[goblin]

All due respect Luis, I wouldn't consider that 7 page document the source for how rank should be written. It does not specify a table for that specific purpose and I don't believe the intent of that table is to display proper abbreviations.

YMMV

ETA: CAPR35-5 references the abbreviation 2d Lt in its promotion table.

[Luis R. Ramos]

If you are talking about the table I presented first, unfortunately I had considered that as the example.

For 15 years or so, no one corrected me! After reading your response, I corrected myself...

[LSThiker]

Read The Tongue and Quill. After all, this is the standard for preparing CAP publications CAPR 35-5.  After all, this is the CAP standard. Link to said publication,

http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/R035_005_489E25C089E93.pdf

Corrected that for you. 

Unfortunately, for many years, CAP was a mix of Army and Air Force abbreviations.  It did not help that our ID cards used Army abbreviations.

[1775]

You would be incorrect. The AF Tongue and Quill abbreviates it as 2d Lt.

Thank you.  I've been looking around and the internet has quite a few document/images where it actually has Second Lieutenant as "2nd Lt".  I didn't know about the Tongue and Quill.  It appears to be the go-to for the USAF.  You answered my question.  Thanks again.  I will also keep a copy of the T & Q.

[Lord of the North]

To add to this discussion, the following was found on Knowledge Base today:

USAF and CAP grade abbreviations
Published 06/06/2003 12:10 PM   |    Updated 11/16/2015 08:44 AM   |    Answer ID: 951
I am trying to find-out if there is a regulation for the use of USAF rank abbreviations for titles as opposed to using Army abbreviations (Capt. John Doe, CAP - as opposed to CPT John Doe, CAP).

Yes, for guidance on grade abbreviations see below from Air University Style Guide for Writers and Editors (Large PDF File) [Note: Link(s) will open a new browser window and leave this site.]

Abbreviate civilian and military titles or ranks that precede a person's full name. Do not use periods with military ranks. Spell out titles or ranks that precede a person's last name (see also military titles before names):
Adm Chester W. Nimitz or Admiral Nimitz
Vice Adm John Smith or Admiral Smith
Rear Adm Michael Wiggins or Admiral Wiggins
Lt Comdr (or Cmdr) Price or Commander Price
Air Chief Marshal Sir Arthur Harris or Marshal Harris
Gen Robert E. Lee or General Lee
Maj Gen Thomas Collins or General Collins
Brig Gen James Stewart or General Stewart
Lt Col Martin L. Green or Colonel Green
Maj Frank T. Boothe or Major Boothe
Capt Donald D. Martin or Captain Martin
1st Lt Peter N. Cushing or Lieutenant Cushing
2d Lt Boyd D. Yeats or Lieutenant Yeats
Wing Comdr David Schubert or Commander Schubert
CMSgt Robert Patterson or Chief Patterson
MSgt Walter Austin or Sergeant Austin
SSgt Fred Jones or Sergeant Jones
A1C K. L. Jones or Airman Jones
Sen. Richard Shelby (R-Ala.) or Senator Shelby
Rep. Terry Everett (R-Ala.) or Representative Everett
Cong. Robert Cramer (D-Ala.) or Congressman Cramer

Also see AFH33-337 THE TONGUE AND QUILL (Large PDF File) Page 260 (see attachment below)

Air Force and CAP Senior Member Rank Abbreviations

Airman Basic AB
Airman Amn
Airman First Class A1C
Senior Airman SrA
Staff Sergeant SSgt
Technical Sergeant TSgt
Master Sergeant MSgt
Senior Master Sergeant SMSgt
Chief Master Sergeant CMSgt
Second Lieutenant 2d Lt
First Lieutenant 1st Lt
Captain Capt
Major Maj
Lieutenant Colonel Lt Col
Colonel Col
Brigadier General Brig Gen
Major General Maj Gen
Lieutenant General Lt Gen
General Gen

CAP Cadet Rank Abbreviations

Cadet Airman Basic (C/AB)
Cadet Airman (C/Amn)
Cadet Airman First Class (C/A1C)
Cadet Senior Airman (C/SrA)
Cadet Staff Sergeant (C/SSgt)
Cadet Technical Sergeant (C/TSgt)
Cadet Master Sergeant (C/MSgt)
Cadet Senior Master Sergeant (C/SMSgt)
Cadet Chief Master Sergeant (C/CMSgt)
Cadet Second Lieutenant (C/2d Lt)
Cadet First Lieutenant (C/1st Lt)
Cadet Captain (C/Capt)
Cadet Major (C/Maj)
Cadet Lieutenant Colonel (C/Lt Col)
Cadet Colonel (C/Col)

[Luis R. Ramos]

LST-

Perfect! I was looking for a table I thought I had seen where it outlines all those abbreviations.

I looked at several CAPR, CAPM but forgot one regulation I used a lot since for my first ten years I was Admin Officer and Personnel Officer!

In the rush to answer a question, looking for something I had my mind set, forgot the simple answer provided by CAPR 35-5.

Devil, the best list for the abbreviations is the one that LST posted. However although LST crossed out Tongue and Quill, this is still a useful guide if you plan to make CAP correspondence. It is I believe among the readings suggested by the CAP PAO program...

[lordmonar]

And in the end of all things.

It does not really matter if you say 2LT, 2nd Lt or 2d Lt.

If using the wrong abbreviation is the biggest mistake you make in your CAP career....then you are way way above the power curve there.

[TheSkyHornet]

^ Uniformity.

[lordmonar]

^ Uniformity.

Sure....but the world ain't gonna end because someone wrote 2LT on an official CAP memo or on CAPTALK.

Gently correct the miscreant and move along.

[Flying Pig]

You were USAF before you became a Marine?

[TheSkyHornet]

^ Uniformity.

Sure....but the world ain't gonna end because someone wrote 2LT on an official CAP memo or on CAPTALK.

Gently correct the miscreant and move along.

I agree. It's not something to get heated over and run around like a headless chicken, but once corrected, that should be the end of it. It can be corrected sternly and politely:

"Sir, just to provide clarification for the future, the correct format for abbreviating (said term) is (said abbreviation)."

I get called "LT" all the time. I'm not a fan of it. It's something I was taught not to do. If a higher up says it to me in person, it's meh. It's not much different than saying "Top" or "CC" or "3." It isn't an insult, just a non-offensive jargon. But in an email or on paper, it's unprofessional and sets the wrong tone, especially when your subordinates are included. And a lower-ranking individual should never jargon up the chain of command. Yes, we do have standards on how to address everyone, but let's be realistic and recognize that even in the military there are nicknames and abbreviated terms that float around, and it really isn't a big deal to most people. Maintain professionalism, but let's not be a certain appendage about it.

I think "miscreant" is a bit of a stretch; ignorant, perhaps, if they didn't know, but that shouldn't be used as an insult.