New Cadets / Parental Involvement

Started by TheSkyHornet, November 24, 2015, 07:44:37 PM

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foo

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on November 30, 2015, 09:20:18 PM
I understand that CAP isn't everyone's full time job, and we don't have any retirees in our squadron, but it's still an ongoing mission that needs to be sustained throughout each week, not a one-day-a-week carnival.

Spot on.

Brit_in_CAP

SkyHornet's point about this not being everyone's full-time job is "bang on", as is the follow on about the sustainment.  Too many people forget we all have jobs and family lives away from CAP and don't do their fair share of the sustainment activities.

Alaric

Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on November 30, 2015, 05:02:46 PM
Most of the parents of my Cadets, I have begged to get involved. Alas, most of them slow down to 50 push Cadet out the car door and are gone. We are a small Squadron in a very small rural community. As a result, my son is also one of my Cadets, I am Deputy Commander for Cadets. I am lucky, we have fantastic leadership in our Squadron, and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure there is no appearance of favoritism. I sit on the Promotion Board, but I only vote to break a tie, and I am not the Testing Officer, I also do not approve/ disapprove my own son's promotions.

Then we have the %1 of all parents, that we who are in Cadet Programs have had to deal with. The one that is furious that "Mommy's Precious Little Snowflake" had his/ her feelings hurt when he had to follow the rules. That Snowflake should just be promoted, "..after all it's only a club..". Snowflake calls all adults by their first names, what's wrong with that?

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

And what would those responsibilities be?  Cadet Expectations are outlined in the regulations, so if repeating them in a letter makes you feel good, great.  Adding expectations that do not exist in the regs could be problematic.

Garibaldi

Quote from: Alaric on December 01, 2015, 01:41:52 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on November 30, 2015, 05:02:46 PM
Most of the parents of my Cadets, I have begged to get involved. Alas, most of them slow down to 50 push Cadet out the car door and are gone. We are a small Squadron in a very small rural community. As a result, my son is also one of my Cadets, I am Deputy Commander for Cadets. I am lucky, we have fantastic leadership in our Squadron, and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure there is no appearance of favoritism. I sit on the Promotion Board, but I only vote to break a tie, and I am not the Testing Officer, I also do not approve/ disapprove my own son's promotions.

Then we have the %1 of all parents, that we who are in Cadet Programs have had to deal with. The one that is furious that "Mommy's Precious Little Snowflake" had his/ her feelings hurt when he had to follow the rules. That Snowflake should just be promoted, "..after all it's only a club..". Snowflake calls all adults by their first names, what's wrong with that?

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

And what would those responsibilities be?  Cadet Expectations are outlined in the regulations, so if repeating them in a letter makes you feel good, great.  Adding expectations that do not exist in the regs could be problematic.

Not necessarily. Parents don't read the regs, and few cadets do (hence the incredible numbers of drive-by posters with questions that could have been answered if they had RTFM). I think a condensed version of what is expected would be beneficial, so they are all on the same page. Or, have a link like we do on our squadron page for parents and prospective members. Or just sit and talk to them all at the same time. Expectations at the unit level can be a little different from what National has (California, anyone?), but to supercede the regs is bad, mkay. I would assume most units do NOT add to them without review from Group or higher.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

TheSkyHornet

Expectations, even in the regs, are subjective in some cases. Consider the term "participates actively" when reviewing someone for a promotion. Showing up to the meeting each week could mean "participates actively," but for a promotion from Chief to 2d Lt, what do we expect of that person when they hold that new grade? Is this someone that presents a willingness to lead while continuing to learn? There's a lot of linkage between the regs and unit expectations.

What do we expect a brand-new cadet to be able to do? What do we expect of a cadet who's been in for a year? When we talk about our expectations of a cadet, in a sense that we're talking to their parents, are we addressing our expectations of someone who hasn't been in CAP before and looking at their career path from basic to officer, or are we addressing our expectations of them to go from 0-Day to Achievement 1 or 2? That's a very broad subject, hence the dilemma of how to express our expectations to parents.

In a clear, blunt form, I think this is a starter for a brand-new cadet:

- Cadets are expected to attend meetings regularly, to include actively participating in the learning process and working as a member of a team
- Cadets are expected to complete the required training for advancement, to include online examinations and physical fitness testing, which can easily be accomplished over an 8-week period as to not affect schoolwork or other extracurricular activities
- Cadets are expected to wear their uniform properly and display respectful behavior reflective of professionalism and military customs and courtesies
- As they advance, cadets are expected to take on additional responsibilities which involve planning and coordinating training activities as well as the supervision of other cadets, which may require time management outside of the typical squadron meeting

I think this gives a good idea to parents what we are looking for in a member, as well as gives the cadet a good idea as to what it takes to succeed in the program.

It seems that there are many different perspectives on how to keep the parents motivated, because while it can be similar in some respects to keeping cadets motivated, the hard part, I find, it keeping their parents on top of what we want/need their cadets to do. Too many cadets go home and tell their parents "I have to....I need to....Can you...?" and suddenly parents are like "Wait a minute, what....no, you can't go that day, we have plans."

I received an email that came down from above me after a parent sent a message because their son when home after a meeting and said "Mom, I need a jacket for Honor Guard," never having told his parents before anything about it. Imagine the reaction of responding to her question of "Where can I get a Blues Jacket in the next week? Can I order one online?"

I've had cadets sign up for events and then 3 days before they say "I guess I can't do it. I have family coming into town." The parents never knew about it.

Sure, we can and should hold cadets accountable, but that still doesn't mean they parents will ever get informed in the future. It seems that if the parents know what's going on and what we expect of their cadets, we can, at the very least, rely on more parents driving their cadets to meetings or other events. The parents need to plan their own schedules, too, and not knowing what's going on in the squadron doesn't help our end when we need manpower.

EDIT:
I totally strayed from my initial thought.

Juice

We encourage them to become Cadet Sponsors, especially the helicopter parents. They have a way of helping out, getting to know the seniors in the program so they feel comfortable leaving their cadets with you, and sometimes become your best senior members or volunteers.  They are also helpful in helping with after action reviews of activities.  We have a specific parent hangout in the squadron for them too.  Gives them a place to watch the cadet programs and interact with seniors for questions.  Often, they want to know how they can help out, especially when they see how hard everyone is working so be ready with a list of donations you need, a party to plan (holiday or summer picnic), a fundraiser you need organized or executed, a carpool that needs organizing,  perhaps people to donate snacks and serve them during a ES training event or volunteer activity.  There is always a piece of an activity that you can pass off to some parents and on less thing you need to worry about.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Juice on December 15, 2015, 02:15:40 PM
We encourage them to become Cadet Sponsors, especially the helicopter parents. They have a way of helping out, getting to know the seniors in the program so they feel comfortable leaving their cadets with you, and sometimes become your best senior members or volunteers.  They are also helpful in helping with after action reviews of activities.  We have a specific parent hangout in the squadron for them too.  Gives them a place to watch the cadet programs and interact with seniors for questions.  Often, they want to know how they can help out, especially when they see how hard everyone is working so be ready with a list of donations you need, a party to plan (holiday or summer picnic), a fundraiser you need organized or executed, a carpool that needs organizing,  perhaps people to donate snacks and serve them during a ES training event or volunteer activity.  There is always a piece of an activity that you can pass off to some parents and on less thing you need to worry about.

That's an issue we've been facing with our meeting space. We've been really supportive of the idea for sponsors, as well as potentially recruiting parents as seniors, granted they aren't there to babysit their kids while they're in our case. But splitting the meeting has been extremely difficult with our confined area. Picture a classroom setup, typical of an ordinary school classroom. Cadets sit at tables that fit about 3-4 chairs each, four tables down, two rows. To the side, there's a senior member table that can comfortably seat about 8, a few more if you cram. When we aren't doing outside activities, we try to utilize some space on the second floor, but have been turned away the last two meetings as it's being occupied as an apartment area now. We're really limited on our space, and we want to make sure we have the ability to separate cadets from their parents, especially those helicopter parents. Most parents, however, are usually good about hanging back with the seniors or watching from afar if we're outside. I'm not opposed to some of the parents participating when we have certain activities that could certainly be more fun, and successful, with some extra hands on deck.

I think right now, space is our biggest issue, and it's something we've been discussing more frequently at the squadron. We are searching for alternative locations, and we've had some offers that need to be negotiated more. Some people seem to be hesitant about moving, which is understandable, but it seems that our current meeting location is sometimes a turn off for parents because we often get confused with another nearby airport with a similar name and, to be frank, it's a somewhat miserable building around some corners.

We'd love for parents who don't necessarily want to become paid sponsors to get involved, but we don't want to turn anyone off by immediately trying to get them to help out (which I think has been a terrible senior member recruiting plan until recently).

bluehoodie

#27
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on December 01, 2015, 05:24:28 PM
Expectations, even in the regs, are subjective in some cases. Consider the term "participates actively" when reviewing someone for a promotion. Showing up to the meeting each week could mean "participates actively," but for a promotion from Chief to 2d Lt, what do we expect of that person when they hold that new grade? Is this someone that presents a willingness to lead while continuing to learn? There's a lot of linkage between the regs and unit expectations.

What do we expect a brand-new cadet to be able to do? What do we expect of a cadet who's been in for a year? When we talk about our expectations of a cadet, in a sense that we're talking to their parents, are we addressing our expectations of someone who hasn't been in CAP before and looking at their career path from basic to officer, or are we addressing our expectations of them to go from 0-Day to Achievement 1 or 2? That's a very broad subject, hence the dilemma of how to express our expectations to parents.

In a clear, blunt form, I think this is a starter for a brand-new cadet:

- Cadets are expected to attend meetings regularly, to include actively participating in the learning process and working as a member of a team
- Cadets are expected to complete the required training for advancement, to include online examinations and physical fitness testing, which can easily be accomplished over an 8-week period as to not affect schoolwork or other extracurricular activities
- Cadets are expected to wear their uniform properly and display respectful behavior reflective of professionalism and military customs and courtesies
- As they advance, cadets are expected to take on additional responsibilities which involve planning and coordinating training activities as well as the supervision of other cadets, which may require time management outside of the typical squadron meeting

I think this gives a good idea to parents what we are looking for in a member, as well as gives the cadet a good idea as to what it takes to succeed in the program.

It seems that there are many different perspectives on how to keep the parents motivated, because while it can be similar in some respects to keeping cadets motivated, the hard part, I find, it keeping their parents on top of what we want/need their cadets to do. Too many cadets go home and tell their parents "I have to....I need to....Can you...?" and suddenly parents are like "Wait a minute, what....no, you can't go that day, we have plans."

I received an email that came down from above me after a parent sent a message because their son when home after a meeting and said "Mom, I need a jacket for Honor Guard," never having told his parents before anything about it. Imagine the reaction of responding to her question of "Where can I get a Blues Jacket in the next week? Can I order one online?"

I've had cadets sign up for events and then 3 days before they say "I guess I can't do it. I have family coming into town." The parents never knew about it.

Sure, we can and should hold cadets accountable, but that still doesn't mean they parents will ever get informed in the future. It seems that if the parents know what's going on and what we expect of their cadets, we can, at the very least, rely on more parents driving their cadets to meetings or other events. The parents need to plan their own schedules, too, and not knowing what's going on in the squadron doesn't help our end when we need manpower.

EDIT:
I totally strayed from my initial thought.

I couldn't agree with this more! Send parents something in writing even if things are tentative. We understand how volunteer things work and plans change.

Like you mentioned finding out something is out of regulation or doesn't fit the day before is very stressful.  Activities turn into a time when you are ready to run for the hills in the hours before.


The cadet adhering to chain of command is nothing but crazy making. 
"Call mr. senior member to find out"
"No mom I can't do that, it's going above cadet officer" 
"Contact cadet officer"
And it's always some answer where they already asked them, can't contact them now, but in the end we can't get the information.


As a parent clueless about CAP and the military I think a This Is How It Works parent orientation would help parents support their cadets and reduce stress.  Spend twenty minutes and go over things like:

how the first few promotions work (We can encourage them to study and  give them time to take their test but only if we know this is something they need to do!)

uniform and specifically what parents needs to purchase and where

hair cuts and specifically what to tell the barber

explain the concept of regulation and what is common for cadets to need or overlook










Garibaldi

This is why we stress the Cadet Oath to new cadets, break it down for them during their initial entry training. It's a pledge, an oath, that they are joining something bigger than they are.

"I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program." Simple enough. Learning to function as a member of a team.

"And that I will attend meetings regularly" We ask that they attend as many as possible, 3/4 of a given month. If they need to disappear for a while due to work/school, family, or church, we just ask that they give us some kind of warning.

"Participate actively in unit activities" Again, as much as they can, dependent on school/work, family or church.

"Obey my officers" It means following the chain of command, of course, and when given duties at activities, to do them. Doing what is expected of you without fail. Learning the followership process before the leadership.

"Wear my uniform properly" 'Nuff said. Don't be a rag bag, have all your patches and insignia on CORRECTLY, boots shined, hair cut to regs (m) or put up in a bun (f)

"and advance my education and training rapidly" Don't stagnate. The minimum time given to promote is 2 months, but some fast-burners whip through the program without actually learning anything, so take your time to LEARN what it is you're given.

"to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation" Simple enough. We hope to produce some decent citizens at the end of the pipe, when they leave, whether it be military, the aerospace field, or in their civilian careers. The tools we give will help shape them.

Some sense of purpose to it all also helps. We don't just hand them a uniform and tell them how to march. There's a method to the madness, a process that needs to be followed. We make a big deal when the cadets in Bravo flight (our training flight) promote out and join Alpha. We require that they earn our unit patch by simple tasks, not some kind of indoctrination/initiation process. WIWAC, you had to remain an active member for 6 months, participate in 75% of meetings and squadron activities, and get your first stripe before you were awarded (not given) the unit patch. I see nothing wrong with earning it. I do see something wrong with giving things away without reason.

Anyway, we sit with the parents and give them the big picture, what's expected of them, what's expected of their kid, and what they can expect from us. As Spam says, open kimono with regards to communication between everyone. Having everyone on the same page really helps.
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

TheSkyHornet

In response to both of the last two posts:
I very much agree and highly appreciate the input.
:clap:

I think I concluded from all of this how we can get a new training program to be very successful in corrective a lot of existing issues, but now I see the matter of having to fix the existing problems with seasoned cadets (and seniors who don't held them to high enough standards). This was heavily discussed in recent weeks between our cadet leadership and senior members, and I think I now have the perfect follow-up to "Do you hold yourself to the Cadet Oath?"

I'm finalizing a new training packet for the incoming class, and using what Garibaldi posted, in a converted format, will be excellent in there. We have a briefing this weekend of some uniformity issues, as well as disciplinary things to address with the entire squadron, and I think this is the best guidance to use.

As for our training flight (Tango Flight), we haven't actually had one yet, so this is our first run. I do think it will be okay. But the big concern was always on the Alpha Flight (our training graduates). I got a very interesting email from my Alpha Flight Sergeant this week about the leniency of how the cadets are held accountable. And she made an excellent remark about the fact that the Tango cadets will graduate to join the Alpha cadets, and she wants the Tango cadets to be equal to Alpha, not better than them. I had been trying to push this for some time now, and wasn't sure if it had been sinking into their minds. And I'm really pissed to learn that there are cadets in the program who are tired of the few "bad apples" and the seniors that have allowed this to go on. It set a bad example for the cadet leadership (which needed a major overhaul at the end of summer) which trickled into the junior cadets.

Some seniors have been very hesitant on the discipline side because they don't want to militarize the unit and make it so cadets leave. The feedback I'm getting from cadets who have been in for at least 2 years now, as opposed to those just going into their second year, is that they feel the Cadet Oath hasn't been upheld and it's been a major cause for our past problems. So, I think this will really adapt to how we present our expectations to the parents, especially in regard to the fact that it is the responsibility of the cadets to live their oath, nobody else. And it is the responsibility of the chain of command to hold them accountable for shortcomings.

I'm finding way too many seniors throughout CAP, especially those with cadets of their own, and those who have very little CAP or military exposure, are extremely relaxed on what it means to earn rank and positions.

stitchmom

Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots. 





TheSkyHornet

Quote from: stitchmom on January 09, 2016, 01:08:51 PM
Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots.

Our Recruiting Officer just made up the handouts for parents, and it looks pretty good. I suggested a few changes, but I wanted to make sure we capture this question:
"Is there any work involved outside of the typical meeting?"

I wanted to emphasize that cadets may need to spend time at home outside of the meeting ironing their uniforms and polishing boots/shoes. I don't want someone's kid coming home saying "They told me I need to polish my shoes, and that's not fair! This is my free time!"

We are putting a lot of umph that we have expectations for new recruits, which includes learning some material on their own, dressing appropriately, and take their tests when necessary--and this needs to be done at home outside of the meeting.

Question for the moms:
It's more the moms that the dads---what's your take on the "I don't want to militarize my kid" moms? Obviously, the first impression by any parent is "Wow, these kids are all wearing camouflage." Some people try to stress that this is not the military and we aren't a boot camp, but at the same time, that's impossible to pass off when you're having cadets wear military uniforms, hold rank, learn the chain of command, and recite an oath. We aren't wearing khaki short pants and a vest. How did you take to the subject of your spawn being in a military uniform, or how do you talk with other parents who are skeptical of it?

Spam

Weve used a welcome letter with some success for a long time, with tear-offs for parents to write sizes down to hand in to the LGS to issue gear, with website addresses and flow charts, etc.   


I don't think I have ever, not once, had a parent concerned over militarization, in 30+ years.  Of course, all my CAP commands have met on bases, or have been in "red" states. In my current unit in Georgia, we had one "no blood for oil!" partisan who tried to get our unit kicked out of the church basement we use back 15 years ago or so. The cadets disappeared her to an undisclosed neutral state and applied enhanced interrogation techniques to inform her of our roles and missions. I think they played "Dixie Chicks" 24/7 alternating with "This is the CAP, We're On the Go". Just kidding, saner heads prevailed there.


I've on rare occasions had parents on the other end of the radical/leftist/conservative/reactionary spectrum. Once or twice I've had one who was concerned that her daughter would have to wear something other than ankle length dresses (PT, for example).


You just gave me a great hint... Of my two sons who are cadets, I'm going to call the older one "Spawn" and the middle boy "Clown", after the comic.


V/R
Spawn (er, Spam)




TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Spam on January 11, 2016, 07:45:04 PM
Weve used a welcome letter with some success for a long time, with tear-offs for parents to write sizes down to hand in to the LGS to issue gear, with website addresses and flow charts, etc.   


I don't think I have ever, not once, had a parent concerned over militarization, in 30+ years.  Of course, all my CAP commands have met on bases, or have been in "red" states. In my current unit in Georgia, we had one "no blood for oil!" partisan who tried to get our unit kicked out of the church basement we use back 15 years ago or so. The cadets disappeared her to an undisclosed neutral state and applied enhanced interrogation techniques to inform her of our roles and missions. I think they played "Dixie Chicks" 24/7 alternating with "This is the CAP, We're On the Go". Just kidding, saner heads prevailed there.


I've on rare occasions had parents on the other end of the radical/leftist/conservative/reactionary spectrum. Once or twice I've had one who was concerned that her daughter would have to wear something other than ankle length dresses (PT, for example).


You just gave me a great hint... Of my two sons who are cadets, I'm going to call the older one "Spawn" and the middle boy "Clown", after the comic.


V/R
Spawn (er, Spam)

Glad to be of service to someone at least  :P

CAPDCCMOM

Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two" ;)

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..

Garibaldi

Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 11, 2016, 08:05:40 PM
Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two" ;)

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..
Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"
Still a major after all these years.
ES dude, leadership ossifer, publik affaires
Opinionated and wrong 99% of the time about all things

stitchmom

Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 11, 2016, 07:16:56 PM
Quote from: stitchmom on January 09, 2016, 01:08:51 PM
Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots.

Our Recruiting Officer just made up the handouts for parents, and it looks pretty good. I suggested a few changes, but I wanted to make sure we capture this question:
"Is there any work involved outside of the typical meeting?"

I wanted to emphasize that cadets may need to spend time at home outside of the meeting ironing their uniforms and polishing boots/shoes. I don't want someone's kid coming home saying "They told me I need to polish my shoes, and that's not fair! This is my free time!"

We are putting a lot of umph that we have expectations for new recruits, which includes learning some material on their own, dressing appropriately, and take their tests when necessary--and this needs to be done at home outside of the meeting.

Question for the moms:
It's more the moms that the dads---what's your take on the "I don't want to militarize my kid" moms? Obviously, the first impression by any parent is "Wow, these kids are all wearing camouflage." Some people try to stress that this is not the military and we aren't a boot camp, but at the same time, that's impossible to pass off when you're having cadets wear military uniforms, hold rank, learn the chain of command, and recite an oath. We aren't wearing khaki short pants and a vest. How did you take to the subject of your spawn being in a military uniform, or how do you talk with other parents who are skeptical of it?

First not a militarization concern but something related to that is I think the uniforms and drill when you visit and see it, it gives the parents a limited impression of what CAP is about.

Second my concern over the militarization is more the recruiting part of it, that they show off more glamorous (to a kid) AF jobs. Nobody is ever a cook. Today young men with science degrees are being told to enlist or look into another armed forces because the AF won't take them as officers, but they have speakers of men who started out enlisted and worked their way up to high rank officer that flew the latest and greatest of their time.


stitchmom

Quote from: Garibaldi on January 11, 2016, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 11, 2016, 08:05:40 PM
Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two" ;)

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..
Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"

Not in CAP but I just dealt with someone like that...why does it seem like everyone is out to protect them? Other people would be raked over the coals for their same behavior.  I get told they are crazy but they are sane enough to try to deflect from their own bad behavior and lie to others to try to paint their victim in a bad light.  Someone with true psychosis that can't help what they do, doesn't put a friendly mask on when a LEO shows up.

TheSkyHornet

Quote from: Garibaldi on January 11, 2016, 08:10:35 PM
Quote from: CAPDCCMOM on January 11, 2016, 08:05:40 PM
Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two" ;)

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..
Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"

I have encountered not my own Snowflake but another squadron's. I have also seen a Senior Member as "Mommy." Overheard a senior address his son's mother as "Mommy" in front of a bunch of us as well. We all got laughs out of it. But Snowflake is definitely an issue, and I'm so glad that I haven't experienced it....yet. I know it's bound to come eventually. It's unfortunate that parents can baby all of the fun out of their kids.

Quote from: stitchmom on January 11, 2016, 09:50:29 PM
Quote from: TheSkyHornet on January 11, 2016, 07:16:56 PM
Quote from: stitchmom on January 09, 2016, 01:08:51 PM
Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots.

Our Recruiting Officer just made up the handouts for parents, and it looks pretty good. I suggested a few changes, but I wanted to make sure we capture this question:
"Is there any work involved outside of the typical meeting?"

I wanted to emphasize that cadets may need to spend time at home outside of the meeting ironing their uniforms and polishing boots/shoes. I don't want someone's kid coming home saying "They told me I need to polish my shoes, and that's not fair! This is my free time!"

We are putting a lot of umph that we have expectations for new recruits, which includes learning some material on their own, dressing appropriately, and take their tests when necessary--and this needs to be done at home outside of the meeting.

Question for the moms:
It's more the moms that the dads---what's your take on the "I don't want to militarize my kid" moms? Obviously, the first impression by any parent is "Wow, these kids are all wearing camouflage." Some people try to stress that this is not the military and we aren't a boot camp, but at the same time, that's impossible to pass off when you're having cadets wear military uniforms, hold rank, learn the chain of command, and recite an oath. We aren't wearing khaki short pants and a vest. How did you take to the subject of your spawn being in a military uniform, or how do you talk with other parents who are skeptical of it?

First not a militarization concern but something related to that is I think the uniforms and drill when you visit and see it, it gives the parents a limited impression of what CAP is about.

Second my concern over the militarization is more the recruiting part of it, that they show off more glamorous (to a kid) AF jobs. Nobody is ever a cook. Today young men with science degrees are being told to enlist or look into another armed forces because the AF won't take them as officers, but they have speakers of men who started out enlisted and worked their way up to high rank officer that flew the latest and greatest of their time.



In fairness, the fly-high jobs are the ones that market. Everyone wants to be a bad... well, you get the point. It sells. What you get in a volunteer organization, I think, is that they get in and realize "This sucks; this isn't what I wanted." And that's very common in the military as well.

The uniforms are a part of CAP, though, and we can't stop that. It's part of the territory. The same with drill. It's a requirement to advance. Parents need to get over it.

I think my question was more along the lines of "How do you deal with those parents and get them to get over it?" We can't change the CAP regs and requirements to promote. I'm sorry if mom/dad don't want their little angel to get barked at, marched around a concrete grinder, or to wear camo, but that's the nature of the beast. So how do we convince mom/dad that this is the way it has to be without...well, I guess being a total prick about it?

I'll be 100% honest and say my biggest shortcoming is my intolerance for people babying their kids when we're here to run a leadership training program for youths. A leader isn't Linus. It's Snoopy.

stitchmom

I don't agree showing the "high fly" jobs to recruit kids when they may have no or very little realistic chance of achieving that job. 

For the parents hesitant I would start with validating how they feel and talk about any specific concerns.