New Cadets / Parental Involvement

[TheSkyHornet]

We're starting a new training program based off of Cadet Great Start in the spring. While we have the cadet side covered as far as all of the training requirements and associated courses, I could use some ideas on the parent side.

How do we go about getting the parents involved in their son or daughter's membership as a CAP cadet? By involvement, I don't necessarily mean that they have to help out, become a sponsor, or become a senior member. I'm referring to the intent of having a vested interested in their child's activities. I've heard from some parents so far that say they really never understand what their cadet is talking about when they come home from meetings. Some parents seem to not really want to be that involved. Some parents really get into it and ask a lot of questions when they don't know something.

This subject came up at TLC, and the Wing recommendation was to develop pamphlets/handouts for parents so that they can follow along with activities, in addition to just receiving Form 32s for cadet participation permission. It's recommended that parents sit in on the first session of the Great Start class, which I'm a bit hesitant on. I'd rather parents come to the open houses, social events, and visit the squadron when their prospective cadet comes for his/her three weeks of curiosity. But we don't really want helicopter parents constantly shadowing their children around. If you can keep the parents involved, you can usually keep their kids involved. On a national level, only a third of cadets are retained after the first year of joining CAP. OHWG is just above the curve at little over 50% retention.

If I could get some ideas as to what other cadet/composite squadrons do to keep parents informed with a vested interested in the program.

[MSG Mac]

 1. Enroll them in the Cadet Sponsor Program.
2. A Newsletter for the parents with a calendar of upcoming events.
3. Hold a "Parents Only" meeting to keep the parents involved.
4. Invite them to all Promotion and other events.

[TheSkyHornet]

1. Enroll them in the Cadet Sponsor Program.
2. A Newsletter for the parents with a calendar of upcoming events.
3. Hold a "Parents Only" meeting to keep the parents involved.
4. Invite them to all Promotion and other events.

1. Do you think the dues are a turn off for parents? I have yet to see a squadron that has actually managed to get paying CSMs to participate. I know they're out there, but I haven't come across it yet.

2. We're already gearing up for a newsletter for parents. We have a PA Cadet who's going to be helping out with that very soon. So I definitely like this idea.

3. I'm in huge favor of the Parents Only meetings, like a CAP version of Parent-Teacher conferences. I'd really like to hold these on a day separate from the squadron meeting. It's tough to get some people to help out with that sort of stuff. Right now, I'm the only Cadet Programs officer we have aside from the squadron staff officers directly under the CC. I know my face time with parents is important, but I'd like to get some of the other staff to attend who frequently interact with the cadets since I don't run the whole show. The problem I see is that with a cadet program and a senior member program, and virtually all of us wearing multiple hats, with the exception of myself as sole CP, it's just another night that seniors have to step away from their free time to participate in. I plan to bring this up at the staff meeting again in two weeks. Any expanded thoughts on this?

4. Already on it. We're going to be doing a lot more unlocked social activities in the future, so I'm looking forward to getting some invites out. We already invite the parents to promotions. I'd say it's about a 50/50 show for that (factoring in that a third of our cadets' parents are in the squadron).

[THRAWN]

1. Enroll them in the Cadet Sponsor Program.
2. A Newsletter for the parents with a calendar of upcoming events.
3. Hold a "Parents Only" meeting to keep the parents involved.
4. Invite them to all Promotion and other events.

1. Do you think the dues are a turn off for parents? I have yet to see a squadron that has actually managed to get paying CSMs to participate. I know they're out there, but I haven't come across it yet.

2. We're already gearing up for a newsletter for parents. We have a PA Cadet who's going to be helping out with that very soon. So I definitely like this idea.

3. I'm in huge favor of the Parents Only meetings, like a CAP version of Parent-Teacher conferences. I'd really like to hold these on a day separate from the squadron meeting. It's tough to get some people to help out with that sort of stuff. Right now, I'm the only Cadet Programs officer we have aside from the squadron staff officers directly under the CC. I know my face time with parents is important, but I'd like to get some of the other staff to attend who frequently interact with the cadets since I don't run the whole show. The problem I see is that with a cadet program and a senior member program, and virtually all of us wearing multiple hats, with the exception of myself as sole CP, it's just another night that seniors have to step away from their free time to participate in. I plan to bring this up at the staff meeting again in two weeks. Any expanded thoughts on this?

4. Already on it. We're going to be doing a lot more unlocked social activities in the future, so I'm looking forward to getting some invites out. We already invite the parents to promotions. I'd say it's about a 50/50 show for that (factoring in that a third of our cadets' parents are in the squadron).

1. At my last 2 squadrons we had a few CSMs. Mostly they were parents that wanted to come play, but couldn't. So they paid. They don't have to be parents to be CSMs, remember.

2. A newsletter. Sorry if I sound jaded here, but they come off as cartoonish. What's plan B?

3. Parent meetings are a good idea. Have you considered teleconferences as an alternative to a face to face? Make a slide brief, have the conference call, give the info and be done with it. Maybe monthly telecons and a quarterly face to face? It's difficult to get everybody together, on off meeting nights.

4. in addition to the monthly promotions, hold an event. An annual holiday party or winter bash. Have a demo of your drill team/color guard, have displays about ES and CP. Invite the local political types...

[foo]

Completely agree that a parent's involvement in their cadet's experience (not necessarily as a member) is a key to the cadet's success in the program. I also think it helps to make clear to prospective cadets and their parents -- before the membership deal is sealed -- the expectations of cadets to actively participate and pursue advancement in the program.

I'd rather parents come to the open houses, social events, and visit the squadron when their prospective cadet comes for his/her three weeks of curiosity. But we don't really want helicopter parents constantly shadowing their children around. If you can keep the parents involved, you can usually keep their kids involved. On a national level, only a third of cadets are retained after the first year of joining CAP. OHWG is just above the curve at little over 50% retention.

4. Already on it. We're going to be doing a lot more unlocked social activities in the future, so I'm looking forward to getting some invites out. We already invite the parents to promotions. I'd say it's about a 50/50 show for that (factoring in that a third of our cadets' parents are in the squadron).

Careful. Are you suggesting that there are times when parents are not welcome at your unit meetings? That might be a violation of the CPP.

Open Access. All CAP activities will be open to parental observation. Secret meetings are not permitted. Commanders and project officers will make reasonable accommodations to allow parents open access during the duty day. However, some environments such as operational missions and flying cannot accommodate non-members. Some activities hosted on military installations and other third-party secure facilities offer only limited access to civilians. In such instances, parental access might be limited to certain specially-designated times.

As long as they don't interfere, I think it's perfectly acceptable for parents to come to every meeting and activity to see what and how their child is doing in the program, especially in the beginning of the cadet's CAP career.

1. At my last 2 squadrons we had a few CSMs. Mostly they were parents that wanted to come play, but couldn't. So they paid. They don't have to be parents to be CSMs, remember.

That's a true statement, but in case someone reading it thinks you mean anyone can be a CSM:

Membership Eligibility. CSMs must be a parent, grandparent or legal guardian of an active CAP cadet and meet all the regular senior member eligibility criteria outlined in paragraph 3-2. All prospective members must meet the Unit Membership Board as outlined in paragraph 1-5.

[SarDragon]

Helicopter parents tend to interfere. There's a huge difference between observing (necessary evil) and interfering (strongly discouraged).

[TheSkyHornet]

Helicopter parents tend to interfere. There's a huge difference between observing (necessary evil) and interfering (strongly discouraged).

That's what I was getting at. We can't tell parents not to attend, but we can have them sit out of certain activities. The point is to encourage them to let their cadet be a cadet.

Parents sometimes like to sit in on character development and chime in, which isn't prohibited but strongly discouraged. Some parents want to observe promotion boards. We'd like them to know what's going on in the program and staying interested, but not actively involved if they aren't a member of the squadron. And if they are a member, I prefer they don't always interact with what their son or daughter is engaging in.

[SarDragon]

No argument there.

[PHall]

Helicopter parents tend to interfere. There's a huge difference between observing (necessary evil) and interfering (strongly discouraged).

That's what I was getting at. We can't tell parents not to attend, but we can have them sit out of certain activities. The point is to encourage them to let their cadet be a cadet.

Parents sometimes like to sit in on character development and chime in, which isn't prohibited but strongly discouraged. Some parents want to observe promotion boards. We'd like them to know what's going on in the program and staying interested, but not actively involved if they aren't a member of the squadron. And if they are a member, I prefer they don't always interact with what their son or daughter is engaging in.

On parents sitting in on the Character Development class. Only with approval of the instructor. Same with the parents "participating" in the class.
Chaplains and Moral Leadership Instructors know what they're allowed to teach and what to avoid. Parents don't...

[foo]

Helicopter parents tend to interfere. There's a huge difference between observing (necessary evil) and interfering (strongly discouraged).

Concur that parental interference is to be discouraged, but I don't see why parents observing meetings or other cadet activities would be considered a "necessary evil." I think it's a good thing for them to be there. Incidents of interference can be addressed on a case-by-case basis. I've never seen one, so maybe that's why I don't perceive it as much of a potential problem.

That's what I was getting at. We can't tell parents not to attend, but we can have them sit out of certain activities. The point is to encourage them to let their cadet be a cadet.

Parents sometimes like to sit in on character development and chime in, which isn't prohibited but strongly discouraged. Some parents want to observe promotion boards. We'd like them to know what's going on in the program and staying interested, but not actively involved if they aren't a member of the squadron. And if they are a member, I prefer they don't always interact with what their son or daughter is engaging in.

Generally agree.

I do understand the difference between observation and interaction, but you used language earlier that I perceived to mean that parents were not always welcome, thus my caution and reference to the regs. IMO it has to be more than "we can't tell parents not to attend." Parents are always welcome to attend, and I think it's a crucial aspect of reaching your goals of "getting the parents involved in their son or daughter's membership" and "having a vested interested in their child's activities."

[foo]

On parents sitting in on the Character Development class. Only with approval of the instructor. Same with the parents "participating" in the class.
Chaplains and Moral Leadership Instructors know what they're allowed to teach and what to avoid. Parents don't...

With due respect, sir, a parent has every right to observe a CD class their child is attending, and without the instructor's approval.

Bears repeating:

Open Access. All CAP activities will be open to parental observation. Secret meetings are not permitted.

They shouldn't presume to participate in the discussion unbidden, but responsible and consciencious parents will want to know what ideas about character and morality are being drilled into their child's mind.

[Garibaldi]

I've no issue with parental involvement, up to a point. Pretty much everyone on here has read my horror stories about parents that are way too involved and invested in their kids' CAP lives, so I'll TL;DR that.

Parents sitting in classes: Yes. Even CDI. I don't think they should participate unless all parties agree that it's a good thing, or you'll get a parent upset at the craftiness by which a strong moral message is couched. Heck, I don't even sit in on them, but I should.

Parents watching D&C: Yes. It's nice to see their faces when their kids do as they're told, with no backtalk and no attitude. Gives them hope for little Johnny or Susie.

Parents observing and ES class: By all means.

Parents observing an FTX/SAREX: No ****ing way. Too many rules in place about operational safety and personal safety and liability. Can we stop them from showing up? No. Can we ask that they leave or watch from a safe distance for liability reasons? Yes, after explaining if Johnny gets hurt, he's covered by all kinds of insurances, but if they get hurt, it's on them.

Parents standing by while Johnny or Susie is on an O-Flight: Fine by me, I don't care if they sit in on a ground class or briefing. They don't go nowhere nears the big red, white, and blue thing with the spinny thing on front.

Other activities: Well, if they want to get THAT involved, have them pays their money and takes their choice. Patron, CSM, full member, they get to stay around for the most part, driving, chaperoning, whatever. Johnny/Susie may not like it (God! Mom! What are you dooooooing here? You're embarrassing meeeeee!) but they can see what's going on. And read the regs and the forms and the manuals and take the classes.

The only real issue I have is over-involved parents in the direct CoC (or educational support) on the cadet side (CDC, Leadership, CDI, testing, etc.). Too many avenues for nepotism, favoritism, and failure IMO. YMMV.

But, in those cases, good leadership can fix those before they become a real issue.

[Alaric]

Helicopter parents tend to interfere. There's a huge difference between observing (necessary evil) and interfering (strongly discouraged).

That's what I was getting at. We can't tell parents not to attend, but we can have them sit out of certain activities. The point is to encourage them to let their cadet be a cadet.

Parents sometimes like to sit in on character development and chime in, which isn't prohibited but strongly discouraged. Some parents want to observe promotion boards. We'd like them to know what's going on in the program and staying interested, but not actively involved if they aren't a member of the squadron. And if they are a member, I prefer they don't always interact with what their son or daughter is engaging in.

It may be strongly discouraged where you come from, but as we have an corporately mandated open access policy they are more than welcome at my squadron.  I have asked parents not to contribute to the conversation unless asked by the Chaplain or CDI but I want parents as involved as they are willing to be.

[THRAWN]

I've no issue with parental involvement, up to a point. Pretty much everyone on here has read my horror stories about parents that are way too involved and invested in their kids' CAP lives, so I'll TL;DR that.

Parents sitting in classes: Yes. Even CDI. I don't think they should participate unless all parties agree that it's a good thing, or you'll get a parent upset at the craftiness by which a strong moral message is couched. Heck, I don't even sit in on them, but I should.

Parents watching D&C: Yes. It's nice to see their faces when their kids do as they're told, with no backtalk and no attitude. Gives them hope for little Johnny or Susie.

Parents observing and ES class: By all means.

Parents observing an FTX/SAREX: No ****ing way. Too many rules in place about operational safety and personal safety and liability. Can we stop them from showing up? No. Can we ask that they leave or watch from a safe distance for liability reasons? Yes, after explaining if Johnny gets hurt, he's covered by all kinds of insurances, but if they get hurt, it's on them.

Parents standing by while Johnny or Susie is on an O-Flight: Fine by me, I don't care if they sit in on a ground class or briefing. They don't go nowhere nears the big red, white, and blue thing with the spinny thing on front.

Other activities: Well, if they want to get THAT involved, have them pays their money and takes their choice. Patron, CSM, full member, they get to stay around for the most part, driving, chaperoning, whatever. Johnny/Susie may not like it (God! Mom! What are you dooooooing here? You're embarrassing meeeeee!) but they can see what's going on. And read the regs and the forms and the manuals and take the classes.

The only real issue I have is over-involved parents in the direct CoC (or educational support) on the cadet side (CDC, Leadership, CDI, testing, etc.). Too many avenues for nepotism, favoritism, and failure IMO. YMMV.

But, in those cases, good leadership can fix those before they become a real issue.

It's a great opportunity for your PIO to get some hands on experience dealing with DVs during a mission. Granted, parents are often more difficult than political types, but the concepts are the same.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Helicopter parents tend to interfere. There's a huge difference between observing (necessary evil) and interfering (strongly discouraged).

That's what I was getting at. We can't tell parents not to attend, but we can have them sit out of certain activities. The point is to encourage them to let their cadet be a cadet.

Parents sometimes like to sit in on character development and chime in, which isn't prohibited but strongly discouraged. Some parents want to observe promotion boards. We'd like them to know what's going on in the program and staying interested, but not actively involved if they aren't a member of the squadron. And if they are a member, I prefer they don't always interact with what their son or daughter is engaging in.

On parents sitting in on the Character Development class. Only with approval of the instructor. Same with the parents "participating" in the class.
Chaplains and Moral Leadership Instructors know what they're allowed to teach and what to avoid. Parents don't...

I've had parents sitting in on my CD classes...hilarious, at times.  I hold them to the same level of accountability as the cadets, and make sure they understand that before they sit down.  Got two recruits that way.  In my time as the CDC I have also, sadly, had to request "in the strongest terms" that a parent step back and let the D&C instructor do their work.  We've generally discouraged attendance at promo boards but use that as an entry point into having a good discussion with the parent, to discover what their concerns are.

As for parents who are squadron members, I have to say that we've been very fortunate and those members have stepped away, to avoid even the inference of influence.

[CAPDCCMOM]

Most of the parents of my Cadets, I have begged to get involved. Alas, most of them slow down to 50 push Cadet out the car door and are gone. We are a small Squadron in a very small rural community. As a result, my son is also one of my Cadets, I am Deputy Commander for Cadets. I am lucky, we have fantastic leadership in our Squadron, and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure there is no appearance of favoritism. I sit on the Promotion Board, but I only vote to break a tie, and I am not the Testing Officer, I also do not approve/ disapprove my own son's promotions.

Then we have the %1 of all parents, that we who are in Cadet Programs have had to deal with. The one that is furious that "Mommy's Precious Little Snowflake" had his/ her feelings hurt when he had to follow the rules. That Snowflake should just be promoted, "..after all it's only a club..". Snowflake calls all adults by their first names, what's wrong with that?

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

[Garibaldi]

I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've had to stop cadets first-naming each other. First naming a SENIOR?

Fail.

People tend to treat it like a club when the atmosphere is club-like. The expectation is that the cadet program is WORK, not something they get handed badges and rank like they are candy. Have a talk with your cadet officers, then the senior NCOs. Have them understand it's right and proper that cadets address each other by their proper grade. Stop this first-naming of seniors NOW. You have a grade, rank, and title, and you EARNED it. Set the expectation that going forward, this will not be tolerated, and it will stop. If Snowflake doesn't like it, there's always JROTC or Girl Scouts.

[Brit_in_CAP]

Most of the parents of my Cadets, I have begged to get involved. Alas, most of them slow down to 50 push Cadet out the car door and are gone. We are a small Squadron in a very small rural community. As a result, my son is also one of my Cadets, I am Deputy Commander for Cadets. I am lucky, we have fantastic leadership in our Squadron, and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure there is no appearance of favoritism. I sit on the Promotion Board, but I only vote to break a tie, and I am not the Testing Officer, I also do not approve/ disapprove my own son's promotions.

Then we have the %1 of all parents, that we who are in Cadet Programs have had to deal with. The one that is furious that "Mommy's Precious Little Snowflake" had his/ her feelings hurt when he had to follow the rules. That Snowflake should just be promoted, "..after all it's only a club..". Snowflake calls all adults by their first names, what's wrong with that?

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

Interesting.  We are also a small rural squadron and my experience mirrors yours!  I *think* they get down to maybe 30mph but only due to the lack of turning room...!

Your comment about Snowflake amused me....I've had my fair share of those, and we get them sorted out, as I'm sure you do, by sorting out the parent and cadet separately...the joys of the Cadet program..

I like the orientation letter for parents, I must admit.  We've had little success in getting parents to an orientation session and a letter on record isn't the worst idea I've heard by a long way.

[foo]

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

I like that idea. It's also good to have prospective cadets complete the online application for cadet membership with their parent(s) after they've attended the prerequisite three meetings. Part of the application involves agreeing to the Honor Statement for the Prospective CAP Cadet:

As you apply for membership in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Corps, please tell us you're serious about being a cadet by reading the statements below and checking the checkboxes to indicate that you agree.

• I want to be a CAP cadet. I think CAP's for me, and I'm willing to give it a try for one full year.


• I'll participate in most weekly squadron meetings and will try to attend one 'Saturday' event per month.


• I plan to attend the next 1-week, overnight summer encampment available in my state. 
  Most encampments are 1-week in duration and take place in the summer or during winter vacation. Tuition averages $200 - $300. Local leaders will tell you more about the encampment opportunities in your area.


• If family or school obligations come up, I'll let my local leaders know in advance that I'll be absent from CAP.


• I have been assigned a mentor, an experienced cadet who is my #1 source for information on how to succeed in CAP. Or, if I haven't been assigned one, I'm going to ask for one at my next meeting. 


• I understand that what I get out of CAP depends on what I put into it.

As a symbol of my readiness to enter the CAP Cadet Program, I make the following pledge:

THE CADET OATH
I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program,
and that I will attend meetings regularly,
participate actively in unit activities,
obey my officers,
wear my uniform properly,
and advance my education and training rapidly
to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state and nation.

[TheSkyHornet]

I cannot begin to tell you how many times I've had to stop cadets first-naming each other. First naming a SENIOR?

Fail.

People tend to treat it like a club when the atmosphere is club-like. The expectation is that the cadet program is WORK, not something they get handed badges and rank like they are candy. Have a talk with your cadet officers, then the senior NCOs. Have them understand it's right and proper that cadets address each other by their proper grade. Stop this first-naming of seniors NOW. You have a grade, rank, and title, and you EARNED it. Set the expectation that going forward, this will not be tolerated, and it will stop. If Snowflake doesn't like it, there's always JROTC or Girl Scouts.

I completely agree with you here. We've had an issue at our squadron of cadets last-naming seniors. It's just as bad in my opinion. I've also seen throughout CAP seniors addressing each other inappropriately in front of others, and it sets bad precedence.

But I digress, it was strongly discouraged in TLC to have any parents sitting in on character development because this is supposed to be a time when cadets can unlock and speak freely about personal matters. If parents do sit in, it was recommended that they sit off to the side and do not contribute at all. Some parents want to know what their child is being talked to about, especially when it comes to the romances  . Now, you do have situations where parents are the ones teaching character development, and that's just how it is. It is then that I would leave it up to the CDI to address that with their cadet in the program, but it shouldn't affect the other cadets since it's not a board issue.

I've seen several senior members who have cadets in the program that really like to watch their cadet from afar. They stand back and edge themselves closer and closer to the situation and need to be brought back sometimes. Some admit to being helicopter-y, and some deny it wholeheartedly.

Most of the parents of my Cadets, I have begged to get involved. Alas, most of them slow down to 50 push Cadet out the car door and are gone. We are a small Squadron in a very small rural community. As a result, my son is also one of my Cadets, I am Deputy Commander for Cadets. I am lucky, we have fantastic leadership in our Squadron, and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure there is no appearance of favoritism. I sit on the Promotion Board, but I only vote to break a tie, and I am not the Testing Officer, I also do not approve/ disapprove my own son's promotions.

Then we have the %1 of all parents, that we who are in Cadet Programs have had to deal with. The one that is furious that "Mommy's Precious Little Snowflake" had his/ her feelings hurt when he had to follow the rules. That Snowflake should just be promoted, "..after all it's only a club..". Snowflake calls all adults by their first names, what's wrong with that?

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

Interesting.  We are also a small rural squadron and my experience mirrors yours!  I *think* they get down to maybe 30mph but only due to the lack of turning room...!

Your comment about Snowflake amused me....I've had my fair share of those, and we get them sorted out, as I'm sure you do, by sorting out the parent and cadet separately...the joys of the Cadet program..

I like the orientation letter for parents, I must admit.  We've had little success in getting parents to an orientation session and a letter on record isn't the worst idea I've heard by a long way.

As a predominately rural squadron ourselves, I see parents like to drop their child off and then zip away. They pull up at pickup time and sit out in the car in the dark waiting for their spawn to come out. They don't come in to say hi or introduce themselves. Yes, there are some exceptions, but most of the parents I've never met. Being a new CDC, I've also only recently taken on the responsibilities of actually running the cadet program at our squadron, and our CC predominately liaison'd with the parents via email, often without my knowledge.

I also see quite a few parents who won't leave during meetings, or spend so much time gabbing with the other seniors, and you can figure out pretty quick which cadet joined the squadron because dad wants his little girl to play Army like he did back in the day.

It seems there's really no one size fits all. It really doesn't help being short-staffed and so multi-hatted. 7 seniors, 17 cadets on the roster, and we probably have 50% activity on average. We're working on the activity issues, and I think we'll improve with the way we're setting up 2016, but the lack of manpower is overloading the senior side.

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

I like that idea. It's also good to have prospective cadets complete the online application for cadet membership with their parent(s) after they've attended the prerequisite three meetings. Part of the application involves agreeing to the Honor Statement for the Prospective CAP Cadet:

As you apply for membership in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Corps, please tell us you're serious about being a cadet by reading the statements below and checking the checkboxes to indicate that you agree.

• I want to be a CAP cadet. I think CAP's for me, and I'm willing to give it a try for one full year.


• I'll participate in most weekly squadron meetings and will try to attend one 'Saturday' event per month.


• I plan to attend the next 1-week, overnight summer encampment available in my state. 
  Most encampments are 1-week in duration and take place in the summer or during winter vacation. Tuition averages $200 - $300. Local leaders will tell you more about the encampment opportunities in your area.


• If family or school obligations come up, I'll let my local leaders know in advance that I'll be absent from CAP.


• I have been assigned a mentor, an experienced cadet who is my #1 source for information on how to succeed in CAP. Or, if I haven't been assigned one, I'm going to ask for one at my next meeting. 


• I understand that what I get out of CAP depends on what I put into it.

As a symbol of my readiness to enter the CAP Cadet Program, I make the following pledge:

THE CADET OATH
I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program,
and that I will attend meetings regularly,
participate actively in unit activities,
obey my officers,
wear my uniform properly,
and advance my education and training rapidly
to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state and nation.

I, too, like the orientation letter/pamphlet, which is what I'm just getting started. That's good for the beginning, but it fades away over time. We have a hard enough time getting cadets to check out our website. Getting the parents to is nearly impossible. Bear in mind that as the head of the cadet program, I don't have the authority over the entire squadron and all of the squadron's property. Some of this has been addressed, but it doesn't always go anywhere with the people responsible for these other areas.

We're trying to go from being a composite squadron which acts like a cadet squadron to become a composite squadron that acts like a composite squadron. Some seniors don't want to get their grubby little fingers out of the cadet side, and others don't always put in the full effort I feel we need to get things done in a timely fashion. I understand that CAP isn't everyone's full time job, and we don't have any retirees in our squadron, but it's still an ongoing mission that needs to be sustained throughout each week, not a one-day-a-week carnival.

[foo]

I understand that CAP isn't everyone's full time job, and we don't have any retirees in our squadron, but it's still an ongoing mission that needs to be sustained throughout each week, not a one-day-a-week carnival.

Spot on.

[Brit_in_CAP]

SkyHornet's point about this not being everyone's full-time job is "bang on", as is the follow on about the sustainment.  Too many people forget we all have jobs and family lives away from CAP and don't do their fair share of the sustainment activities.

[Alaric]

Most of the parents of my Cadets, I have begged to get involved. Alas, most of them slow down to 50 push Cadet out the car door and are gone. We are a small Squadron in a very small rural community. As a result, my son is also one of my Cadets, I am Deputy Commander for Cadets. I am lucky, we have fantastic leadership in our Squadron, and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure there is no appearance of favoritism. I sit on the Promotion Board, but I only vote to break a tie, and I am not the Testing Officer, I also do not approve/ disapprove my own son's promotions.

Then we have the %1 of all parents, that we who are in Cadet Programs have had to deal with. The one that is furious that "Mommy's Precious Little Snowflake" had his/ her feelings hurt when he had to follow the rules. That Snowflake should just be promoted, "..after all it's only a club..". Snowflake calls all adults by their first names, what's wrong with that?

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

And what would those responsibilities be?  Cadet Expectations are outlined in the regulations, so if repeating them in a letter makes you feel good, great.  Adding expectations that do not exist in the regs could be problematic.

[Garibaldi]

Most of the parents of my Cadets, I have begged to get involved. Alas, most of them slow down to 50 push Cadet out the car door and are gone. We are a small Squadron in a very small rural community. As a result, my son is also one of my Cadets, I am Deputy Commander for Cadets. I am lucky, we have fantastic leadership in our Squadron, and have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure there is no appearance of favoritism. I sit on the Promotion Board, but I only vote to break a tie, and I am not the Testing Officer, I also do not approve/ disapprove my own son's promotions.

Then we have the %1 of all parents, that we who are in Cadet Programs have had to deal with. The one that is furious that "Mommy's Precious Little Snowflake" had his/ her feelings hurt when he had to follow the rules. That Snowflake should just be promoted, "..after all it's only a club..". Snowflake calls all adults by their first names, what's wrong with that?

We are creating a Parent Orientation Letter that explains Cadet Expectations and Parental Responsibilities. I want the Parents to sign it, so I can have a copy for the Cadet file... just in case.

And what would those responsibilities be?  Cadet Expectations are outlined in the regulations, so if repeating them in a letter makes you feel good, great.  Adding expectations that do not exist in the regs could be problematic.

Not necessarily. Parents don't read the regs, and few cadets do (hence the incredible numbers of drive-by posters with questions that could have been answered if they had RTFM). I think a condensed version of what is expected would be beneficial, so they are all on the same page. Or, have a link like we do on our squadron page for parents and prospective members. Or just sit and talk to them all at the same time. Expectations at the unit level can be a little different from what National has (California, anyone?), but to supercede the regs is bad, mkay. I would assume most units do NOT add to them without review from Group or higher.

[TheSkyHornet]

Expectations, even in the regs, are subjective in some cases. Consider the term "participates actively" when reviewing someone for a promotion. Showing up to the meeting each week could mean "participates actively," but for a promotion from Chief to 2d Lt, what do we expect of that person when they hold that new grade? Is this someone that presents a willingness to lead while continuing to learn? There's a lot of linkage between the regs and unit expectations.

What do we expect a brand-new cadet to be able to do? What do we expect of a cadet who's been in for a year? When we talk about our expectations of a cadet, in a sense that we're talking to their parents, are we addressing our expectations of someone who hasn't been in CAP before and looking at their career path from basic to officer, or are we addressing our expectations of them to go from 0-Day to Achievement 1 or 2? That's a very broad subject, hence the dilemma of how to express our expectations to parents.

In a clear, blunt form, I think this is a starter for a brand-new cadet:

- Cadets are expected to attend meetings regularly, to include actively participating in the learning process and working as a member of a team
- Cadets are expected to complete the required training for advancement, to include online examinations and physical fitness testing, which can easily be accomplished over an 8-week period as to not affect schoolwork or other extracurricular activities
- Cadets are expected to wear their uniform properly and display respectful behavior reflective of professionalism and military customs and courtesies
- As they advance, cadets are expected to take on additional responsibilities which involve planning and coordinating training activities as well as the supervision of other cadets, which may require time management outside of the typical squadron meeting

I think this gives a good idea to parents what we are looking for in a member, as well as gives the cadet a good idea as to what it takes to succeed in the program.

It seems that there are many different perspectives on how to keep the parents motivated, because while it can be similar in some respects to keeping cadets motivated, the hard part, I find, it keeping their parents on top of what we want/need their cadets to do. Too many cadets go home and tell their parents "I have to....I need to....Can you...?" and suddenly parents are like "Wait a minute, what....no, you can't go that day, we have plans."

I received an email that came down from above me after a parent sent a message because their son when home after a meeting and said "Mom, I need a jacket for Honor Guard," never having told his parents before anything about it. Imagine the reaction of responding to her question of "Where can I get a Blues Jacket in the next week? Can I order one online?"

I've had cadets sign up for events and then 3 days before they say "I guess I can't do it. I have family coming into town." The parents never knew about it.

Sure, we can and should hold cadets accountable, but that still doesn't mean they parents will ever get informed in the future. It seems that if the parents know what's going on and what we expect of their cadets, we can, at the very least, rely on more parents driving their cadets to meetings or other events. The parents need to plan their own schedules, too, and not knowing what's going on in the squadron doesn't help our end when we need manpower.

EDIT:
I totally strayed from my initial thought.

[Juice]

We encourage them to become Cadet Sponsors, especially the helicopter parents. They have a way of helping out, getting to know the seniors in the program so they feel comfortable leaving their cadets with you, and sometimes become your best senior members or volunteers.  They are also helpful in helping with after action reviews of activities.  We have a specific parent hangout in the squadron for them too.  Gives them a place to watch the cadet programs and interact with seniors for questions.  Often, they want to know how they can help out, especially when they see how hard everyone is working so be ready with a list of donations you need, a party to plan (holiday or summer picnic), a fundraiser you need organized or executed, a carpool that needs organizing,  perhaps people to donate snacks and serve them during a ES training event or volunteer activity.  There is always a piece of an activity that you can pass off to some parents and on less thing you need to worry about.

[TheSkyHornet]

We encourage them to become Cadet Sponsors, especially the helicopter parents. They have a way of helping out, getting to know the seniors in the program so they feel comfortable leaving their cadets with you, and sometimes become your best senior members or volunteers.  They are also helpful in helping with after action reviews of activities.  We have a specific parent hangout in the squadron for them too.  Gives them a place to watch the cadet programs and interact with seniors for questions.  Often, they want to know how they can help out, especially when they see how hard everyone is working so be ready with a list of donations you need, a party to plan (holiday or summer picnic), a fundraiser you need organized or executed, a carpool that needs organizing,  perhaps people to donate snacks and serve them during a ES training event or volunteer activity.  There is always a piece of an activity that you can pass off to some parents and on less thing you need to worry about.

That's an issue we've been facing with our meeting space. We've been really supportive of the idea for sponsors, as well as potentially recruiting parents as seniors, granted they aren't there to babysit their kids while they're in our case. But splitting the meeting has been extremely difficult with our confined area. Picture a classroom setup, typical of an ordinary school classroom. Cadets sit at tables that fit about 3-4 chairs each, four tables down, two rows. To the side, there's a senior member table that can comfortably seat about 8, a few more if you cram. When we aren't doing outside activities, we try to utilize some space on the second floor, but have been turned away the last two meetings as it's being occupied as an apartment area now. We're really limited on our space, and we want to make sure we have the ability to separate cadets from their parents, especially those helicopter parents. Most parents, however, are usually good about hanging back with the seniors or watching from afar if we're outside. I'm not opposed to some of the parents participating when we have certain activities that could certainly be more fun, and successful, with some extra hands on deck.

I think right now, space is our biggest issue, and it's something we've been discussing more frequently at the squadron. We are searching for alternative locations, and we've had some offers that need to be negotiated more. Some people seem to be hesitant about moving, which is understandable, but it seems that our current meeting location is sometimes a turn off for parents because we often get confused with another nearby airport with a similar name and, to be frank, it's a somewhat miserable building around some corners.

We'd love for parents who don't necessarily want to become paid sponsors to get involved, but we don't want to turn anyone off by immediately trying to get them to help out (which I think has been a terrible senior member recruiting plan until recently).

[bluehoodie]

Expectations, even in the regs, are subjective in some cases. Consider the term "participates actively" when reviewing someone for a promotion. Showing up to the meeting each week could mean "participates actively," but for a promotion from Chief to 2d Lt, what do we expect of that person when they hold that new grade? Is this someone that presents a willingness to lead while continuing to learn? There's a lot of linkage between the regs and unit expectations.

What do we expect a brand-new cadet to be able to do? What do we expect of a cadet who's been in for a year? When we talk about our expectations of a cadet, in a sense that we're talking to their parents, are we addressing our expectations of someone who hasn't been in CAP before and looking at their career path from basic to officer, or are we addressing our expectations of them to go from 0-Day to Achievement 1 or 2? That's a very broad subject, hence the dilemma of how to express our expectations to parents.

In a clear, blunt form, I think this is a starter for a brand-new cadet:

- Cadets are expected to attend meetings regularly, to include actively participating in the learning process and working as a member of a team
- Cadets are expected to complete the required training for advancement, to include online examinations and physical fitness testing, which can easily be accomplished over an 8-week period as to not affect schoolwork or other extracurricular activities
- Cadets are expected to wear their uniform properly and display respectful behavior reflective of professionalism and military customs and courtesies
- As they advance, cadets are expected to take on additional responsibilities which involve planning and coordinating training activities as well as the supervision of other cadets, which may require time management outside of the typical squadron meeting

I think this gives a good idea to parents what we are looking for in a member, as well as gives the cadet a good idea as to what it takes to succeed in the program.

It seems that there are many different perspectives on how to keep the parents motivated, because while it can be similar in some respects to keeping cadets motivated, the hard part, I find, it keeping their parents on top of what we want/need their cadets to do. Too many cadets go home and tell their parents "I have to....I need to....Can you...?" and suddenly parents are like "Wait a minute, what....no, you can't go that day, we have plans."

I received an email that came down from above me after a parent sent a message because their son when home after a meeting and said "Mom, I need a jacket for Honor Guard," never having told his parents before anything about it. Imagine the reaction of responding to her question of "Where can I get a Blues Jacket in the next week? Can I order one online?"

I've had cadets sign up for events and then 3 days before they say "I guess I can't do it. I have family coming into town." The parents never knew about it.

Sure, we can and should hold cadets accountable, but that still doesn't mean they parents will ever get informed in the future. It seems that if the parents know what's going on and what we expect of their cadets, we can, at the very least, rely on more parents driving their cadets to meetings or other events. The parents need to plan their own schedules, too, and not knowing what's going on in the squadron doesn't help our end when we need manpower.

EDIT:
I totally strayed from my initial thought.

I couldn't agree with this more! Send parents something in writing even if things are tentative. We understand how volunteer things work and plans change.

Like you mentioned finding out something is out of regulation or doesn't fit the day before is very stressful.  Activities turn into a time when you are ready to run for the hills in the hours before.


The cadet adhering to chain of command is nothing but crazy making. 
"Call mr. senior member to find out"
"No mom I can't do that, it's going above cadet officer" 
"Contact cadet officer"
And it's always some answer where they already asked them, can't contact them now, but in the end we can't get the information.


As a parent clueless about CAP and the military I think a This Is How It Works parent orientation would help parents support their cadets and reduce stress.  Spend twenty minutes and go over things like:

how the first few promotions work (We can encourage them to study and  give them time to take their test but only if we know this is something they need to do!)

uniform and specifically what parents needs to purchase and where

hair cuts and specifically what to tell the barber

explain the concept of regulation and what is common for cadets to need or overlook

[Garibaldi]

This is why we stress the Cadet Oath to new cadets, break it down for them during their initial entry training. It's a pledge, an oath, that they are joining something bigger than they are.

"I pledge that I will serve faithfully in the Civil Air Patrol Cadet Program." Simple enough. Learning to function as a member of a team.

"And that I will attend meetings regularly" We ask that they attend as many as possible, 3/4 of a given month. If they need to disappear for a while due to work/school, family, or church, we just ask that they give us some kind of warning.

"Participate actively in unit activities" Again, as much as they can, dependent on school/work, family or church.

"Obey my officers" It means following the chain of command, of course, and when given duties at activities, to do them. Doing what is expected of you without fail. Learning the followership process before the leadership.

"Wear my uniform properly" 'Nuff said. Don't be a rag bag, have all your patches and insignia on CORRECTLY, boots shined, hair cut to regs (m) or put up in a bun (f)

"and advance my education and training rapidly" Don't stagnate. The minimum time given to promote is 2 months, but some fast-burners whip through the program without actually learning anything, so take your time to LEARN what it is you're given.

"to prepare myself to be of service to my community, state, and nation" Simple enough. We hope to produce some decent citizens at the end of the pipe, when they leave, whether it be military, the aerospace field, or in their civilian careers. The tools we give will help shape them.

Some sense of purpose to it all also helps. We don't just hand them a uniform and tell them how to march. There's a method to the madness, a process that needs to be followed. We make a big deal when the cadets in Bravo flight (our training flight) promote out and join Alpha. We require that they earn our unit patch by simple tasks, not some kind of indoctrination/initiation process. WIWAC, you had to remain an active member for 6 months, participate in 75% of meetings and squadron activities, and get your first stripe before you were awarded (not given) the unit patch. I see nothing wrong with earning it. I do see something wrong with giving things away without reason.

Anyway, we sit with the parents and give them the big picture, what's expected of them, what's expected of their kid, and what they can expect from us. As Spam says, open kimono with regards to communication between everyone. Having everyone on the same page really helps.

[TheSkyHornet]

In response to both of the last two posts:
I very much agree and highly appreciate the input.
:clap:

I think I concluded from all of this how we can get a new training program to be very successful in corrective a lot of existing issues, but now I see the matter of having to fix the existing problems with seasoned cadets (and seniors who don't held them to high enough standards). This was heavily discussed in recent weeks between our cadet leadership and senior members, and I think I now have the perfect follow-up to "Do you hold yourself to the Cadet Oath?"

I'm finalizing a new training packet for the incoming class, and using what Garibaldi posted, in a converted format, will be excellent in there. We have a briefing this weekend of some uniformity issues, as well as disciplinary things to address with the entire squadron, and I think this is the best guidance to use.

As for our training flight (Tango Flight), we haven't actually had one yet, so this is our first run. I do think it will be okay. But the big concern was always on the Alpha Flight (our training graduates). I got a very interesting email from my Alpha Flight Sergeant this week about the leniency of how the cadets are held accountable. And she made an excellent remark about the fact that the Tango cadets will graduate to join the Alpha cadets, and she wants the Tango cadets to be equal to Alpha, not better than them. I had been trying to push this for some time now, and wasn't sure if it had been sinking into their minds. And I'm really pissed to learn that there are cadets in the program who are tired of the few "bad apples" and the seniors that have allowed this to go on. It set a bad example for the cadet leadership (which needed a major overhaul at the end of summer) which trickled into the junior cadets.

Some seniors have been very hesitant on the discipline side because they don't want to militarize the unit and make it so cadets leave. The feedback I'm getting from cadets who have been in for at least 2 years now, as opposed to those just going into their second year, is that they feel the Cadet Oath hasn't been upheld and it's been a major cause for our past problems. So, I think this will really adapt to how we present our expectations to the parents, especially in regard to the fact that it is the responsibility of the cadets to live their oath, nobody else. And it is the responsibility of the chain of command to hold them accountable for shortcomings.

I'm finding way too many seniors throughout CAP, especially those with cadets of their own, and those who have very little CAP or military exposure, are extremely relaxed on what it means to earn rank and positions.

[stitchmom]

Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots. 

[TheSkyHornet]

Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots.

Our Recruiting Officer just made up the handouts for parents, and it looks pretty good. I suggested a few changes, but I wanted to make sure we capture this question:
"Is there any work involved outside of the typical meeting?"

I wanted to emphasize that cadets may need to spend time at home outside of the meeting ironing their uniforms and polishing boots/shoes. I don't want someone's kid coming home saying "They told me I need to polish my shoes, and that's not fair! This is my free time!"

We are putting a lot of umph that we have expectations for new recruits, which includes learning some material on their own, dressing appropriately, and take their tests when necessary--and this needs to be done at home outside of the meeting.

Question for the moms:
It's more the moms that the dads---what's your take on the "I don't want to militarize my kid" moms? Obviously, the first impression by any parent is "Wow, these kids are all wearing camouflage." Some people try to stress that this is not the military and we aren't a boot camp, but at the same time, that's impossible to pass off when you're having cadets wear military uniforms, hold rank, learn the chain of command, and recite an oath. We aren't wearing khaki short pants and a vest. How did you take to the subject of your spawn being in a military uniform, or how do you talk with other parents who are skeptical of it?

[Spam]

Weve used a welcome letter with some success for a long time, with tear-offs for parents to write sizes down to hand in to the LGS to issue gear, with website addresses and flow charts, etc.   


I don't think I have ever, not once, had a parent concerned over militarization, in 30+ years.  Of course, all my CAP commands have met on bases, or have been in "red" states. In my current unit in Georgia, we had one "no blood for oil!" partisan who tried to get our unit kicked out of the church basement we use back 15 years ago or so. The cadets disappeared her to an undisclosed neutral state and applied enhanced interrogation techniques to inform her of our roles and missions. I think they played "Dixie Chicks" 24/7 alternating with "This is the CAP, We're On the Go". Just kidding, saner heads prevailed there.


I've on rare occasions had parents on the other end of the radical/leftist/conservative/reactionary spectrum. Once or twice I've had one who was concerned that her daughter would have to wear something other than ankle length dresses (PT, for example).


You just gave me a great hint... Of my two sons who are cadets, I'm going to call the older one "Spawn" and the middle boy "Clown", after the comic.


V/R
Spawn (er, Spam)

[TheSkyHornet]

Weve used a welcome letter with some success for a long time, with tear-offs for parents to write sizes down to hand in to the LGS to issue gear, with website addresses and flow charts, etc.   


I don't think I have ever, not once, had a parent concerned over militarization, in 30+ years.  Of course, all my CAP commands have met on bases, or have been in "red" states. In my current unit in Georgia, we had one "no blood for oil!" partisan who tried to get our unit kicked out of the church basement we use back 15 years ago or so. The cadets disappeared her to an undisclosed neutral state and applied enhanced interrogation techniques to inform her of our roles and missions. I think they played "Dixie Chicks" 24/7 alternating with "This is the CAP, We're On the Go". Just kidding, saner heads prevailed there.


I've on rare occasions had parents on the other end of the radical/leftist/conservative/reactionary spectrum. Once or twice I've had one who was concerned that her daughter would have to wear something other than ankle length dresses (PT, for example).


You just gave me a great hint... Of my two sons who are cadets, I'm going to call the older one "Spawn" and the middle boy "Clown", after the comic.


V/R
Spawn (er, Spam)

Glad to be of service to someone at least 

[CAPDCCMOM]

Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two"

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..

[Garibaldi]

Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two"

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..

Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"

[stitchmom]

Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots.

Our Recruiting Officer just made up the handouts for parents, and it looks pretty good. I suggested a few changes, but I wanted to make sure we capture this question:
"Is there any work involved outside of the typical meeting?"

I wanted to emphasize that cadets may need to spend time at home outside of the meeting ironing their uniforms and polishing boots/shoes. I don't want someone's kid coming home saying "They told me I need to polish my shoes, and that's not fair! This is my free time!"

We are putting a lot of umph that we have expectations for new recruits, which includes learning some material on their own, dressing appropriately, and take their tests when necessary--and this needs to be done at home outside of the meeting.

Question for the moms:
It's more the moms that the dads---what's your take on the "I don't want to militarize my kid" moms? Obviously, the first impression by any parent is "Wow, these kids are all wearing camouflage." Some people try to stress that this is not the military and we aren't a boot camp, but at the same time, that's impossible to pass off when you're having cadets wear military uniforms, hold rank, learn the chain of command, and recite an oath. We aren't wearing khaki short pants and a vest. How did you take to the subject of your spawn being in a military uniform, or how do you talk with other parents who are skeptical of it?

First not a militarization concern but something related to that is I think the uniforms and drill when you visit and see it, it gives the parents a limited impression of what CAP is about.

Second my concern over the militarization is more the recruiting part of it, that they show off more glamorous (to a kid) AF jobs. Nobody is ever a cook. Today young men with science degrees are being told to enlist or look into another armed forces because the AF won't take them as officers, but they have speakers of men who started out enlisted and worked their way up to high rank officer that flew the latest and greatest of their time.

[stitchmom]

Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two"

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..

Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"

Not in CAP but I just dealt with someone like that...why does it seem like everyone is out to protect them? Other people would be raked over the coals for their same behavior.  I get told they are crazy but they are sane enough to try to deflect from their own bad behavior and lie to others to try to paint their victim in a bad light.  Someone with true psychosis that can't help what they do, doesn't put a friendly mask on when a LEO shows up.

[TheSkyHornet]

Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two"

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..

Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"

I have encountered not my own Snowflake but another squadron's. I have also seen a Senior Member as "Mommy." Overheard a senior address his son's mother as "Mommy" in front of a bunch of us as well. We all got laughs out of it. But Snowflake is definitely an issue, and I'm so glad that I haven't experienced it....yet. I know it's bound to come eventually. It's unfortunate that parents can baby all of the fun out of their kids.

Give each cadet ruler. Every family can afford a $1 ruler but learning he needs one between dinner and meeting time and then having to go back home so he can get dressed... 

Have classes on how to iron uniforms & polish boots.

Our Recruiting Officer just made up the handouts for parents, and it looks pretty good. I suggested a few changes, but I wanted to make sure we capture this question:
"Is there any work involved outside of the typical meeting?"

I wanted to emphasize that cadets may need to spend time at home outside of the meeting ironing their uniforms and polishing boots/shoes. I don't want someone's kid coming home saying "They told me I need to polish my shoes, and that's not fair! This is my free time!"

We are putting a lot of umph that we have expectations for new recruits, which includes learning some material on their own, dressing appropriately, and take their tests when necessary--and this needs to be done at home outside of the meeting.

Question for the moms:
It's more the moms that the dads---what's your take on the "I don't want to militarize my kid" moms? Obviously, the first impression by any parent is "Wow, these kids are all wearing camouflage." Some people try to stress that this is not the military and we aren't a boot camp, but at the same time, that's impossible to pass off when you're having cadets wear military uniforms, hold rank, learn the chain of command, and recite an oath. We aren't wearing khaki short pants and a vest. How did you take to the subject of your spawn being in a military uniform, or how do you talk with other parents who are skeptical of it?

First not a militarization concern but something related to that is I think the uniforms and drill when you visit and see it, it gives the parents a limited impression of what CAP is about.

Second my concern over the militarization is more the recruiting part of it, that they show off more glamorous (to a kid) AF jobs. Nobody is ever a cook. Today young men with science degrees are being told to enlist or look into another armed forces because the AF won't take them as officers, but they have speakers of men who started out enlisted and worked their way up to high rank officer that flew the latest and greatest of their time.

In fairness, the fly-high jobs are the ones that market. Everyone wants to be a bad... well, you get the point. It sells. What you get in a volunteer organization, I think, is that they get in and realize "This sucks; this isn't what I wanted." And that's very common in the military as well.

The uniforms are a part of CAP, though, and we can't stop that. It's part of the territory. The same with drill. It's a requirement to advance. Parents need to get over it.

I think my question was more along the lines of "How do you deal with those parents and get them to get over it?" We can't change the CAP regs and requirements to promote. I'm sorry if mom/dad don't want their little angel to get barked at, marched around a concrete grinder, or to wear camo, but that's the nature of the beast. So how do we convince mom/dad that this is the way it has to be without...well, I guess being a total prick about it?

I'll be 100% honest and say my biggest shortcoming is my intolerance for people babying their kids when we're here to run a leadership training program for youths. A leader isn't Linus. It's Snoopy.

[stitchmom]

I don't agree showing the "high fly" jobs to recruit kids when they may have no or very little realistic chance of achieving that job. 

For the parents hesitant I would start with validating how they feel and talk about any specific concerns.

[TheSkyHornet]

I don't agree showing the "high fly" jobs to recruit kids when they may have no or very little realistic chance of achieving that job. 

For the parents hesitant I would start with validating how they feel and talk about any specific concerns.

To recruit kids, perhaps not. Maybe it's immoral for a volunteer group to do that. It's discouraging to those who don't end up doing that activity, and it causes a retention problem. For the military, perhaps it isn't necessarily right to try and recruit someone to join SpecOps or be an F-15 pilot when they don't have a strong chance, but it sells. It's a balance between recruiting and retention, and it's not an easy job.

I don't like to sell those "epic" futures to potential recruits, but at the same time, when I have a 15-year-old who has a passion for flying and I can market SUPTFC as a future activity, I'm going to bring it up. I'm up front and direct when I say that it's a long time away before that possibility will likely come up, but it's out there if you work for it.

I come from a mindset of thinking "Hey, this is the job and this is what it requires. If a person can't fulfill these basic requirements, of which I have no control over, then they don't stick around." That's just the way it is. People might think that's harsh to say to a 14-year-old, but that's the way it is. You need to do PT, you need to wear the uniform, you need to promote, and if you do that, you might just have some fun and have some great opportunities. But in order to do the fun stuff, you need to do the hard stuff. If a parent can't grasp that, then they're limiting their child from participating.

My greatest concern is having a recruit who really wants to do this and a parent who says "Well, I don't know..." I've met some amazing cadets who have had both parental support and very distant relationships with their parents, but they've put in a lot of effort and did a lot of great things in CAP. But every time we talk about recruiting new people, that subject always comes up: What about "those" parents who are hesitant?

I like your point, though, about addressing those specific concerns. I don't want anyone to think we're going to indoctrinate their kids (and I'll be honest, part of being a cadet is a bit of an indoctrination into this new culture and learning process) or think that we're going to be putting them on a combat-oriented career path. But we have a military structure and this is how we run the program.

Every squadron I come across where the senior members are overbearing parents who babysit their kids, or their parents are constantly involved in making sure their kid gets tended to, I see a huge retention problem. Whenever I hear someone say "My kid was hazed," my mind immediately turns to "Ugh, shut up..." (Probably what everyone thinks when I post  ). Until now, I haven't made that stride to respond to these subjects since it hasn't really been in my lap yet, but with our new recruiting plans and new training programs, I'm trying to prepare myself for what to expect since I haven't experienced it yet, but I know it's out there.

[Spam]

Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two"

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..

Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"

Spam would like to point out that this must have been in one of Garibaldis old units, and not our current gang of thieves.

Meh
Spam

[Garibaldi]

Spam, I guess that's better than me calling my Cadet/ sons "Thing One" and "Thing Two"

My problem with a couple of parents was the absolute dismay and horror when I insisted that Cadet Mommy's Precious Snowflake could not call Senior Members by their first name, and had to learn custom and courtesies. Then, I had the audacity to tell Cadet Snowflake "no".

Has anyone experienced "Mommy's Precious Snowflake"? If so what did you do? I see it is usually the parent's issues, not the Cadet's..

Yes. Unfortunately, she was the DCC's kid. Went to Spaatz at 15, didn't learn a thing about anything. Mommy ended up filing a lawsuit against our 80 year old commander for sexual harassment, and you can imagine how that wound up. She=no longer a member, he=revered commander emeritus.

Basically, she had no checks against her behaviour, the kid. Anytime anyone (me) said anything about her they (I) were hushed up...as in "Do you really want to open this can of worms?"

Spam would like to point out that this must have been in one of Garibaldis old units, and not our current gang of thieves.

Meh
Spam

Different wing. Long, long ago in a galaxy far, far away. Like 2002. And I do occasionally refer to your spawn as Thing 1 and Thing 2.