CAP Talk

Operations => Tools of the trade => Topic started by: swilliams on January 25, 2007, 07:23:20 PM

Title: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: swilliams on January 25, 2007, 07:23:20 PM
I was just wondering if anyone is using Google Earth at sarexs/incidents yet?

Are there any CAP/SAR-related layers developed yet?

I think with a good net connection, GE could be a real resource to the IC.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: JohnKachenmeister on January 25, 2007, 07:30:09 PM
Google Earth is not likely to be current, though.  The images may be 2 or 3 years old.  That's not a problem if you are getting geological data, but the presence of buildings, temporary trails, and seasonal hydration may surprise you.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: Monty on January 25, 2007, 07:33:33 PM
Only thing I've noticed is that Google Earth is hit or miss on specific street addresses.  (UDFers.)  Perhaps it's a security feature so as to not exactly find somebody's house, though you can get the neighbor!   :P

As for entering GPS coordinates...I think it does pretty well (at least experimentally...)

It's been real handy for me, genealogy-wise, in finding the exact GPS coordinates for recording where cemeteries of my deceased ancestors are.  (Now my kids and grandkids won't have to wonder if "so and so" still knows how to find some of the back-woodsy cemeteries and such.)

(Cross-checked the coordinates I get in Google Earth with other separate programs and the coordinates always match up perfectly.)

Edit: Try it yourself, it's not classified.  Here's the burial site of my GGGG Grandfather (1780-1870). Cut and paste these into Google Earth and it'll zero in real nice!

33 21' 46.63"N, 87 43' 50.93"W (This one is blurry but it's rural)

39 06' 19.54"N, 94 21' 52.00"W (This is my father's burial site and this one's not blurry.)
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: swilliams on January 25, 2007, 09:08:24 PM
I guess I was thinking on more of a 'macro' basis. Such as: inserting the CAP grids, placemarks to show where your GT's & aircraft are, things of that nature.

With things such as topo maps overlays, realtime weather data, etc - I think the plugins/layers would be what makes it useful, not just the GE application.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: swilliams on January 25, 2007, 09:30:57 PM
Just found a cool article:
http://www.tinyurl.com/yvwqd9

He also has a link to download UTM grids for google earth
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: Pumbaa on January 25, 2007, 10:44:43 PM
Interesting little tidbit.  If you try to get a view of the campus where I work, the entire 1000 acres is blurred out.

We are a secure facility...

I noticed a number of other places in my area to have the same blurring.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: Monty on January 26, 2007, 01:13:46 AM
Alright, so I'm not a big Google Earth user but, I figured that it'd be pretty worthless outside of the US.

Not so!  This thing is pretty detailed for the whole Earth!  (Smacking myself in the head, due in part to the fact it's called Google *Earth* not Google *USA.*)   :-[

Here's a place I spent a TDY and it goes RIGHT to the spot where the CONEX box used to be: and it's very detailed for being outside the US!

17 39' 30.60"N, 54 01' 56.15"E

Man; this Google Earth is addictive! :)
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: Pace on January 26, 2007, 01:59:57 AM
Quote from: swilliams on January 25, 2007, 07:23:20 PM
I was just wondering if anyone is using Google Earth at sarexs/incidents yet?

Are there any CAP/SAR-related layers developed yet?

I think with a good net connection, GE could be a real resource to the IC.
The next SAREX I attend as the GBD or OSC in an area with wireless access, I'm going to try using it to see if it's any better than the Delorme and sectional I use now.  Something tells me it will be.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: SJFedor on January 26, 2007, 02:28:04 AM
We used it back in Sept/Oct during the search for the missing MTSU student flying between somewhere in AL back up to Murfreesboro, TN. I found it really helpful as a mission observer, because we'd get witness reports from people walking up to the mission base. We could pull up google earth, they could see where they were, and point to there general area where they thought they saw something go down. We could see some visual references to the area (houses, some developments, major roads) and it would make our search a little easier.

Although the find was made in Alabama, I think google earth worked pretty well for what we were trying to accomplish. Looking at a map is one thing, looking at an actual layout of the earth, where you can see specific houses, roads, etc made it quite a bit easier to visualize in the air.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 04:55:24 AM
Quote from: SJFedor on January 26, 2007, 02:28:04 AM
We used it back in Sept/Oct during the search for the missing MTSU student flying between somewhere in AL back up to Murfreesboro, TN. I found it really helpful as a mission observer, because we'd get witness reports from people walking up to the mission base. We could pull up google earth, they could see where they were, and point to there general area where they thought they saw something go down. We could see some visual references to the area (houses, some developments, major roads) and it would make our search a little easier.

Although the find was made in Alabama, I think google earth worked pretty well for what we were trying to accomplish. Looking at a map is one thing, looking at an actual layout of the earth, where you can see specific houses, roads, etc made it quite a bit easier to visualize in the air.


Has CAP ever used something like this at Mission base for use on a plotting board?
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: SarDragon on January 26, 2007, 07:08:24 AM
Quote from: 2nd LT Fairchild on January 25, 2007, 10:44:43 PM
Interesting little tidbit.  If you try to get a view of the campus where I work, the entire 1000 acres is blurred out.

We are a secure facility...

I noticed a number of other places in my area to have the same blurring.

I have looked at a lot of areas on GE that I thought ought to be fuzzy and aren't, and a lot with no special significance. AFAIK, it just depends on the age and resolution of the satellite pass.

I have looked at a couple of dozen military installations, and most have no blurring at all, while  sometimes nearby semi-rural areas have poor quality. Groom Lake shows up very well, f'rinstance.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: BillB on January 26, 2007, 12:16:05 PM
I had Google Earth Pro, and complained that three areas I looked at in Florida were blurred. They responded that many areas still have old low resolution photos. They are updated almost weekely, and the areas I was interested in might have new photos taken this year and updated. About six months later, two of the areas were updated, the third hadn't been. Montgomery AL has been and now you can see the L-19 in front of National HQ which you couldn't a year ago.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: TDHenderson on January 26, 2007, 02:54:37 PM
For planning purposes it is a good tool to have, if you have Internet access at the mission base.  We used it a little at a multi-agency SAREX last December mainly to provide situational maps to the Ground Teams and for Aircrew planning.

They were also pretty handy for GT debriefs by the GBD.

Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: RiverAux on January 26, 2007, 09:38:08 PM
It is useful for planning damage assessment missions when the target isn't something obvious like a dam or a bridge (Try telling a pilot to find a particular building inside a city with nothing more than a street address and you'll see what I mean).  However, it is limited by photo resolution in many areas.  YahooMaps has a good version but it isn't anywhere near as user friendly. 
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: sardak on January 26, 2007, 11:15:16 PM
In general, urban areas have the most recent photos.  However, recent is a relative term.  To see what recent is in different systems, try this.

Input these coordinates   39.51703, -104.9213   into:

Google Earth
Google Maps (http://maps.google.com)
Yahoo Maps (http://maps.yahoo.com)

In both Google and Yahoo maps, the lat/lon can be input directly into the address block.

and Globexplorer (www.globexplorer.com) If you're unfamiliar with Globexplorer, on this page click on the "Launch Viewer and Find Image" button located on the left side.  From the viewer page, switch to the lat/lon option in the "Search ImageAtlas" block.

The result won't automatically zoom in.  Along the bottom of the image, click on the first zoom block to the right of the block above "City" to get to a scale similar to Yahoo and Google.  The date of the photo is at the top of the image.  There are different display options below the zoom bar.

Another difference to note between Yahoo Maps and Google Maps. Clicking on the image in Yahoo Maps recenters the map and displays in the address bar the lat/lon of where the cursor is clicked.  There is no recenter in Google Maps, only dragging. The lat/lon isn't displayed, either (but is of course, in Google Earth).

Mike
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: floridacyclist on January 28, 2007, 02:32:33 AM
Quote from: dcpacemaker on January 26, 2007, 01:59:57 AM
Quote from: swilliams on January 25, 2007, 07:23:20 PM

I think with a good net connection, GE could be a real resource to the IC.
The next SAREX I attend as the GBD or OSC in an area with wireless access, I'm going to try using it to see if it's any better than the Delorme and sectional I use now.  Something tells me it will be.

I used it for planning the Ranger exercise - you can see themap in the write-up under tall tales. It is better in some ways, but for downright navigation it is much easier to use Delorme (especially if internet access is not available) since it shows the actual roads; we use it in hurricane zones with the GPS
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: Nick on January 28, 2007, 05:57:11 AM
I've used it for SAREXs, military training, and real-time moving map GPS... it works very well for all of them.  The only thing I want to see is MGRS (not UTM) support, but I'm sure that'll be coming sooner or later thanks to the whole USNG thing.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: IronRangerMN on March 27, 2007, 04:20:11 AM
I loaded GE onto a computer at our building and it was good, very sweet for looking at mountains and places u never think about, but all i did with GE was bookmark, or wutever, our building, and a few training areas we use, as well as a few houses and such. What is need for woodland navigation is NOT GE, that is for sure. I did not want to spend money to buy Pro GE so it ended there. What I need is very recent and acurate topo maps, big ones
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: swilliams on March 27, 2007, 06:51:24 PM
While GE is by itself is not a perfect resource, by adding custom layers (such as 7.5min USGS topos, aerial charts, etc) - we'll be able to make it a viable resource.

Stay tuned - we're working on a CAP specific layer for Google Earth (latest news will be over at www.cap-it.us)
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: RiverAux on March 27, 2007, 09:27:39 PM
I'd suggest trying to use a better photo platform than GE.  Except in urban areas it doesn't have the level of detail needed for most CAP missions.  Yahoo maps or terraserver might be better. 
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: Eclipse on March 27, 2007, 09:30:02 PM
Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on January 26, 2007, 04:55:24 AM
Quote from: SJFedor on January 26, 2007, 02:28:04 AM
We used it back in Sept/Oct during the search for the missing MTSU student flying between somewhere in AL back up to Murfreesboro, TN. I found it really helpful as a mission observer, because we'd get witness reports from people walking up to the mission base. We could pull up google earth, they could see where they were, and point to there general area where they thought they saw something go down. We could see some visual references to the area (houses, some developments, major roads) and it would make our search a little easier.

Although the find was made in Alabama, I think google earth worked pretty well for what we were trying to accomplish. Looking at a map is one thing, looking at an actual layout of the earth, where you can see specific houses, roads, etc made it quite a bit easier to visualize in the air.


Has CAP ever used something like this at Mission base for use on a plotting board?

Yes, I used it as GBD for the practice ILWG eval last year, and intend to do the same this year down in Marion.  It works surprisingly well even over GPRS, as long as you are patient.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: SarDragon on March 27, 2007, 11:52:05 PM
Quote from: RiverAux on March 27, 2007, 09:27:39 PM
I'd suggest trying to use a better photo platform than GE.  Except in urban areas it doesn't have the level of detail needed for most CAP missions.  Yahoo maps or terraserver might be better. 

The GE photos are improving all the time. I have seen updates in resolution on some areas in CA over the last year, and anticipate more in the future in other areas. As for Yahoo! Maps and Terraserver, the resolution varies there, too, and many areas seem to have older views than GE.

YMMV.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: connelly on March 28, 2007, 01:34:47 AM
I use Google maps when i have internet access and use microsoft streets and atlas when there is none but google earth is verry inaccurate in small areas like were ELTs usualy tend to go off. But google has the pro version that is updated more often but it costs money.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: swilliams on March 28, 2007, 03:01:20 PM
as has been previously stated - GE alone should not be used for ground search, door-to-door search, or (obviously) ground nav. It could very easily be used for GBD, Incident HQ, and overview type work. With the addition of the forthcoming CAP overlays, the usability of GE should be greatly enhanced.
Title: Re: Google Earth as an Incident Resource
Post by: LtCol Hooligan on March 28, 2007, 03:17:58 PM
I have had good luck with http://local.live.com/ from Microsoft.  The direction portion is still being developed but the imagery is great and really helps to get a good visual look at an area.  It gives a team something to go off of before they start out.  Streets and Trips is going to be better, though, if you are looking for directions in the field.  Otherwise, Delorme ( http://www.delorme.com/ ) also has a nice mapping program and you can get great rural details with it.