I just withdrew from Encampment.

[jeders]

First, that totally sucks dude.

That said, I have to kind of agree with Pat on this one, sometimes you have to work with/for/around tools all day every day. It's how you handle those situations that really shows your caliber. There's a quote, and I can't seem to remember it exactly right now, that goes something to the effect of, if all you have is a deck to swab, then swab it as if Davey Jones himself were after you. In other words, if the only thing that you're being utilized for is a walking laptop stand, then be the best walking laptop stand that has ever existed and someone will notice you.

Trust me, this is an important lesson to learn and if you learn it now you will blow everyone away later in life.

[lordmonar]

A job is the shaft?

That's my point....no one got shafted.

Yes he is disappointed.  Yes Medical is not as "good" as XO.  Yes the Lt did all the prep work.

But let's supposes for a second....just one second......that Dan L's story is not the whole story.

Let's suppose for a second....that Dan L was originally slated for medical all along but they just did not have anyone to fill the position.  Then at the last minute a round peg arrived to fill the round hole.

Fair?  No.....but what in life is fair.

PHall we both know that in the real military this happens all the time.  Some poor Lt or SSgt is given a task and works his butt off...then at the 90% mark a Major or MSgt comes in "takes over" and gets all the kudos.

It sucks...I'm not saying it does not suck.....what I am saying is that it is life....and real leaders push on.  They take what ever job is given and move on.   They don't quit.

Dan L left encampment.....the medical job is empty because he is not doing that job.....leadership fail.

Was the C/CC and the encampment comandant tools for the way they pulled the rug from under his feet?  Sure thing.....that's life.  We will have have to work for tools one day......how you react to it.....tells me what sort of person you are.

That would be great but it wasn't like that.

1) I didn't get slated for medical, I was slated for XO from when I was offered to when I accepted.

Maybe after they offered the XO job to someone else.

Either way it does not matter.

You got bumped....that sucks..Life's not fair....press on.  Get the mission done.........that's leadership.

[RiverAux]

There is absolutely no comparison to mission work here.  Keep in mind that encampment is an experience that the cadets are PAYING for and as such, they certainly have a right to get the sort of experience they expected when the check was written.  Sure, everyone needs to be a little flexible, but this goes way beyond acceptable (with the caveat that things happened as they were presented here). 

I think we can assume that in this case the cadet had been to one or more previous encampments and was only willing to take the time and pay good money to attend this one for the chance to take on such a prestigious slot where he could learn something new.  I'm sure he has already filled minor staff jobs at previous encampments so unless he just loves spending time at encampment, this would be a waste of time.  Yeah, the encampment staff is primarily there to make sure the basics get what they need out of the encampment, but if we didn't expect that the staff wouldn't get something out of it personally, they wouldn't be there.  We would just have senior members run everything. 

If we expect our cadets to learn anything it is up to us to demonstrate high quality leadership first.  And if we don't (as APPEARS to be the case here), just why should we expect the cadet to just suck it up and waste a week of their life? 

If I pay good money to join CAP to get a certain experience and I don't get it, are you going to call me a quitter for not-renewing?  Obviously, for whatever reason my needs and CAP's didn't mesh and it only makes sense for us to part ways.  Same with doing a bait-and-switch on this cadet.

[Daniel]

There is absolutely no comparison to mission work here.  Keep in mind that encampment is an experience that the cadets are PAYING for and as such, they certainly have a right to get the sort of experience they expected when the check was written.  Sure, everyone needs to be a little flexible, but this goes way beyond acceptable (with the caveat that things happened as they were presented here). 

I think we can assume that in this case the cadet had been to one or more previous encampments and was only willing to take the time and pay good money to attend this one for the chance to take on such a prestigious slot where he could learn something new.  I'm sure he has already filled minor staff jobs at previous encampments so unless he just loves spending time at encampment, this would be a waste of time.  Yeah, the encampment staff is primarily there to make sure the basics get what they need out of the encampment, but if we didn't expect that the staff wouldn't get something out of it personally, they wouldn't be there.  We would just have senior members run everything. 

If we expect our cadets to learn anything it is up to us to demonstrate high quality leadership first.  And if we don't (as APPEARS to be the case here), just why should we expect the cadet to just suck it up and waste a week of their life?

I actually have been to an encampment as IT before.

This would have been my third

[Starlock]

But let's supposes for a second....just one second......that Dan L's story is not the whole story.

I've known Lt. L for in essence my entire CAP career. Dishonest is not a word I would use to describe to him at all.

At our home Wing encampment, I was slated for a flight sergeant position. Complications arose. I was taken out of the role and put in as Admin. Granted, it was for good reasoning. Nonetheless, I was STEAMED. I still held to the reassigned position.

Knowing the.. Reputation of the encampment that Lt. L was attending, I think that withdrawal would be preferred. What's the point of staffing an encampment if you're not able to do the job you were assigned?

[CAPC/officer125]

But let's supposes for a second....just one second......that Dan L's story is not the whole story.

...snip...

At our home Wing encampment, I was slated for a flight sergeant position. Complications arose. I was taken out of the role and put in as Admin. Granted, it was for good reasoning. Nonetheless, I was STEAMED. I still held to the reassigned position.

Knowing the.. Reputation of the encampment that Lt. L was attending, I think that withdrawal would be preferred. What's the point of staffing an encampment if you're not able to do the job you were assigned?

Emphasis mine.
It seems you were re-slotted before the activity, something that is quite common and still acceptable. It has happened to me twice (from 1st shirt to Flt/Sgt and from LogOIC to Sq/CC). From what I can tell, he was assigned the position of C/XO, did the prep work, showed up, and then was re-slotted. Two completely different situations
In the Lt's situation I would be mad too. Especially at my rank and with the experience I have. However, we are talking about him not me. The proper thing (as stated by a few others) for the C/CC or Commandant or whoever to do would have been to call him and tell him before he arrived. As he pointed out, he was an out-of-state cadet and that is just common and decent courtesy.

[Starlock]

It seems you were re-slotted before the activity, something that is quite common and still acceptable. It has happened to me twice (from 1st shirt to Flt/Sgt and from LogOIC to Sq/CC)

Very true and indeed valid, Ma'am. It was prior to the activity, but the point I now realize I forgot to convey is that there's nothing in the encampment more demoralizing than being switched out for a (perhaps) less desirable position after all the preparation you've put into letters, bettering yourself in all the leadership classes and having the pride of being able to say you've directly affected some ought 20 young person's lives. You know? Lt. L's original position would have put him in an even larger setting to give cadets a kick start, and frankly, going from C/XO to an A/V technician is like being a Chief and being sent back to SrA.

[RiverAux]

Without knowing where this encampment was, I've got to say that the cadet program in that wing has got to be pretty weak if they had to go to another wing and ask a 1st Lt. to take the XO position in the first place.  I could understand if he was a Lt. Col. or Maj, but to go that deep into the bench in another wing shows a serious lack of home-grown talent. 

[Starlock]

Without knowing where this encampment was, I've got to say that the cadet program in that wing has got to be pretty weak if they had to go to another wing and ask a 1st Lt. to take the XO position in the first place.  I could understand if he was a Lt. Col. or Maj, but to go that deep into the bench in another wing shows a serious lack of home-grown talent.

He applied, they didn't ask.

[RiverAux]

Without knowing where this encampment was, I've got to say that the cadet program in that wing has got to be pretty weak if they had to go to another wing and ask a 1st Lt. to take the XO position in the first place.  I could understand if he was a Lt. Col. or Maj, but to go that deep into the bench in another wing shows a serious lack of home-grown talent.

He applied, they didn't ask.

People apply for jobs and if they are lucky they are then offered (i.e., "asked") the position.  Wasn't suggesting that they went headhunting for a 1st Lt., but the fact that a 1st Lt. was even considered for such a position means that they have a problem. 

[Tim Medeiros]

It seems you were re-slotted before the activity, something that is quite common and still acceptable. It has happened to me twice (from 1st shirt to Flt/Sgt and from LogOIC to Sq/CC)

Very true and indeed valid, Ma'am. It was prior to the activity, but the point I now realize I forgot to convey is that there's nothing in the encampment more demoralizing than being switched out for a (perhaps) less desirable position after all the preparation you've put into letters, bettering yourself in all the leadership classes and having the pride of being able to say you've directly affected some ought 20 young person's lives. You know? Lt. L's original position would have put him in an even larger setting to give cadets a kick start, and frankly, going from C/XO to an A/V technician is like being a Chief and being sent back to SrA.

Sure there is, being told after all that prep and such that "Oh, we don't need you anymore we have someone else coming"  At least the offer of a consolation was given.  Encampment credit still would have been given.  It shows up in your eServices record and on your ribbon rack all the same.  Who knows, if C/Maj johnny come lately ended up doing worse than expected, C/1st Lt Daniel L likely would have been the next viable candidate, but the choice was made to leave.


Do the circumstances inhale with great velocity?  yes, would I have made the same choice? heck no.  I would have stuck it out, a ribbon is a ribbon and a SQL entry is a SQL entry.  Plus, DCPs talk, they talk about major functions like encampment and what goes on with them, to include who leaves early because of certain reasons and leaves the mission at hand (ie the encampment) undermanned, they talk with multitudes of other DCPs and CP personnel.

[ol'fido]

...who leaves early because of certain reasons and leaves the mission at hand(ie the encampment) undermanned....

He was dropped from c/XO to the AV guy for the "medical" flight. I'm sorry but unless the AV/Medical is a lot more high speed position than I can imagine, it sounds like it would have had to work a bit to get up to "Miss Congeniality" status. Not exactly leaving the mission undermanned. Maybe all the PLO slots were taken already. PLO? You know...Permanent Latrine Orderly. (Somebody got a "No Time For Sergeants" picture.)

Our cadets don't join to get dumped on and told to "suck it up". They join to have a good time and learn something. Granted, you can't eliminate the suck factor entirely. Into everyone's life a little "suck" must fall. Also, we only know Daniel's side of this story. But from the story as presented, I would have left too. Although, I would make sure that I had a long talk with the c/CC, COC, and CC about why I was leaving. You can't treat cadets in discourteous and unprofessional manner for very long and expect them to "suck it up" unless your goal is to NOT have a cadet program.

[phoenix212]

Having been in command of training activities before, I can understand having to shuffle people around. It is near impossible to make everyone happy. If a staff position becomes open it has to be filled. It is not desirable to put a C/Maj in medical/av, and it isn't to put the current XO in either. That being said when a C/Maj that has been to COS, whose leadership has been proven to the CC and is a higher grade applies, it is acceptable to assume that he will be able to accomplish the job with proficiency. You were likely an untested out of state C/Lt and got the short stick. Life isn't fair. I just got back from an encampment where I was a squadron commander, and the DC over me was a C/Capt. I still made the best of it and had a blast. Who knows, they may have attempted to contact you, but in real life things don't always go as planned.

[ol'fido]

The staff position wasn't open. It had been filled by Daniel. Just because someone of higher rank decided to show up after the staff positions had been assigned doesn't mean that they should expect to waltz right into a position based on that rank. The c/Major's leadership may have been proven by going to COS but I would have serious doubts about the c/CC's leadership after a stunt like that. I would also be questioning the leadership of the Commandant and the Encampment CC for allowing her to make such a move without cause on Daniel's part.

[N Harmon]

The cadet did not quit. He was removed from his position and offered another that was made up on the spot for him. It was his choice whether to accept it.

For me, spending the whole first day of the encampment not being able to contribute anything is enough to convince me not to accept the position. And tolerating people wasting your time is not leadership.

[Eclipse]

Having been in command of training activities before, I can understand having to shuffle people around. It is near impossible to make everyone happy. If a staff position becomes open it has to be filled. It is not desirable to put a C/Maj in medical/av, and it isn't to put the current XO in either. That being said when a C/Maj that has been to COS, whose leadership has been proven to the CC and is a higher grade applies, it is acceptable to assume that he will be able to accomplish the job with proficiency. You were likely an untested out of state C/Lt and got the short stick. Life isn't fair. I just got back from an encampment where I was a squadron commander, and the DC over me was a C/Capt. I still made the best of it and had a blast. Who knows, they may have attempted to contact you, but in real life things don't always go as planned.

Untested and out of state is irrelevant, he applied timely and was appointed. Another cadet who chose a different activity was rewarded for
being unable to make a choice by not needing to make a choice.

I am a charter member of the CAP "Life Isn't Fair Committee", however that doesn't apply here as clearly last minute exceptions to procedure were
made at the last minute to accommodate one cadet to the detriment of another.

Any heat that comes the way of the seniors on this encampment staff is probably deserved, though we all still reserve the "right of rest of the story".

Your case is not applicable either.  Squadron CC is not really an appropriate position for a triple-diamond, but you accepted that position knowing full well you would likely be the highest grade cadet on the list, however while a big factor in consideration, once appointed, grade doesn't serve much purpose at encampments beyond basic courtesies.

For me, spending the whole first day of the encampment not being able to contribute anything is enough to convince me not to accept the position. And tolerating people wasting your time is not leadership.

Agree 100%.  For some reason there seems to be an idea that cadets deserve less respect than seniors in situations like this, while at the same time we are trying to teach them to make good decisions and longer term plans than "after this show".

How many seniors would stick around for SAREx if they left the house expecting to be the GBD, OSC, or even mission pilot, having participated in planning sessions and other prep work, only to be told to sit in the general assignment pool because "a Major we know better decided to show up at the last minute".

[EMT-83]

. . . It is not desirable to put a C/Maj in medical/av . . .

Why not?

[Daniel]

You were likely an untested out of state C/Lt and got the short stick.

Thats an unfair assessment. I have 2 encampments under my belt and single-handedly planned unit involvement with a local airshow which was like a 3 day long event. I think I was tested.

[FW]

Daniel, I see you are still working hard to get your Earhart.  Good for you.  It seems your recent experience has not deterred you from continuing in the program.  However, my question is; what have you learned from this?  I can assure you; it won't be the last time someone will pull the rug out from under you.  How will you deal with the situation next time?  There will be a next time...

As others have said; life isn't fair.  It is a hard lesson to learn.  However, in learning it, you do become stronger.  The position you were subsequently assigned sounded like a "make work" job to keep you at encampment.  If all you were to do was sit for a week while your laptop got all the attention. leaving may have been the best thing to do.  I'm not one for doing nothing and, don't expect anyone to waste their time either. 

Our Core values are more than just "respect".  They are also the ideals of volunteer service, integrity and, excellence in all we do. We have an obligation as senior members to instill these value in our cadets and, in this case, the job wasn't done. 

Now, Daniel, you have a choice.  Let the experience fester or, learn a lesson, move on and, be better for it.

[MSG Mac]

The problem seems to be a lack of communication, in not informing the Cadet Lieutenant that his position was changed in time for him to make an informed decision about accepting the AV position (What does an AV Medical Officer do anyways). I hope you communicated with the DCP of the applicable Wing your concerns about the lack of communications and the assignment of someone to your presumed position who hadn't even applied for a staff position, prior to day 1.