I just withdrew from Encampment.

[Daniel]

I rode six hours to an encampment where I was supposed to be the C/XO. A position I would have rode 12 hours for. However on arrival I was told that I was being "Reassigned" (demoted) to AV/Medical, because the cadet commander wanted to have her friend a phase IV who just graduated NSCA with her. Apparently he was slotted to be cadet commander and declined after being chosen for an NCSA, but on the way back he decided he wanted to go and apparently his mommy wouldn't let him stay if he didn't have a good position. He put in his CAPF31/check the day we arrived at the camp

found it odd when the cadet commander instead of asking me to make an excel sheet would ask to use my laptop. She made several sheets of in-processing and inspection worksheets while I sat around and did nothing over the 24 hours I was there with one exception, after nagging about the way they were holding my laptop, when they needed it moved from the barracks (where they did most of the work) to wing HQ (to print) they would ask me to carry it. I started to feel that I could leave as long as I left my laptop behind then, and even more so once thier version of AV would be to have everyone give their powerpoints to me so I could set them up on my laptop.

It seemed like the senior staff didn't have the time of day to listen to the issue until after it would be impossible to get a ride home.
Aside from a refund which "I would let my people get with his people on", I asked to shake each of their hands and be on my way.

Heres the real question is this situation universally unacceptable or in some wings is this acceptable?

Can you just bring in staff and move staff down the chain like that?

[JayT]

That's disgusting they did that to you. Shame on them!

[Eclipse]

Heres the real question is this situation universally unacceptable or in some wings is this acceptable?

Not universally.  Most encampments treat their cadet staff with a lot more weight and respect, and I am somewhat surprised that a position like Cadet XO didn't have a lot more work and involvement prior to the activity, let alone once you got there.

We only have a piece of the story, but it sounds, from 50K feet, like either the senior staff of this activity are "lights-off", or there is more here than we know about.

C/Maj. is more grade-appropriate for C/XO, but that is something that should have been worked out during the application and appointment process, not day-of.  C/XO to "AV/Medical" (whatever that is), is a pretty long fall and not remotely similar duties.

Can you just bring in staff and move staff down the chain like that?

The short answer is "yes".

The much longer one is "Why?", and "Who thought this was a good idea?"
This looks and sounds like squandered member initiative and morale in favor of nepotism because of a disconnected senior staff, but again, we only have your side.

I and my staff have dealt with similar issues to this in the past - cadets who don't understand that "life is choice" and "you can't do everything", so they apply all over the place and then try to do musical chairs with activities and positions. Our stance has nearly always been "the deadline passed, you did not apply, so we made our choice from the applicant pool...", or "you chose to apply for "x" because you thought you had a better deal in your pocket, which fell through...".

On a rare occasion we solicited outside when we had to, but again, this is something which is supposed to happen months before the activity, with changes only made last-minute due to cadets who drop-out, have disciplinary issues, or who clearly are unsuitable for the position, which does not appear to be the case in this instance.

My suggestion would be to let some time pass and discuss this with your commander, who should then find out exactly what the deal was through the
chain.  It won't change your situation, but might prevent it from happening in the future, assuming there wasn't a justifiable reason behind the action.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Honestly, if someone was slotted for that particular job, and unless they were grossly incapable of performing the job, there should be NO reason for this. If a cadet decided to do COS instead of Encampment, that was their choice. There are many, MANY, events that cadets can participate in, and it's their responsibility to decide. Pulling something like this on someone AFTER they made the drive down is just poor form.

[Daniel]

Not universally.  Most encampments treat their cadet staff with a lot more weight and respect, and I am somewhat surprised that a position like Cadet XO didn't have a lot more work and involvement prior to the activity, let alone once you got there

I did do a lot of work, coordinating the "executive staff" then when I got there they took the position from me before I could do crap.

[Eclipse]

I just re-read.

The Cadet Commander was appointed on the first day of the activity after he was going to blow it off for COS?

If true, this is ridiculous.  We have 2-3 months of prep work for our Cadet Commanders, assuming they weren't part of the planning over the Fall
from the year previous.

This may also cross into the discussion of the C/CC's responsibilities.  We have seniors do hots and cots, and leave the "experience" to the cadet executive
staff (with significant guidance and oversight of the Commandant).  We make it clear that "This year is yours.  Make it your own and fix the things you don't like."  If they have to, the seniors can step in last minute and make it happen, but that rarely is needed (though we do need to adjust expectations sometimes for cadets being used to hand-holding and spoon-feeding).

I know some encampments basically hand a script to the staff and say "stand there", which we have never thought was the right way to do it.
I can't imagine how someone not involved in the planning process could possibly be an effective leader for an activity of this scale unless the
whole thing is "baked" by the seniors in advance with little input from the cadet staff.

[Daniel]

I just re-read.

The Cadet Commander was appointed on the first day of the activity after he was going to blow it off for COS?

If true, this is ridiculous.  We have 2-3 months of prep work for our Cadet Commanders, assuming they weren't part of the planning over the Fall
from the year previous.

This may also cross into the discussion of the C/CC's responsibilities.  We have seniors do hots and cots, and leave the "experience" to the cadet executive
staff (with significant guidance and oversight of the Commandant).  We make it clear that "This year is yours.  Make it your own and fix the things you don't like."  If they have to, the seniors can step in last minute and make it happen, but that rarely is needed (though we do need to adjust expectations sometimes for cadets being used to hand-holding and spoon-feeding).

I know some encampments basically hand a script to the staff and say "stand there", which we have never thought was the right way to do it.
I can't imagine how someone not involved in the planning process could possibly be an effective leader for an activity of this scale unless the
whole thing is "baked" by the seniors in advance with little input from the cadet staff.

Umm.. no, The cadet commander replaced me on the first day. She was chosen probably after the cadet that replaced me as XO dropped for COS. Although I ironically the Cadet commander did do COS with this gentlemen.

[Al Sayre]

This sounds like a conversation you need to have with your Squadron/CC and your Wing DCP (I am assuming that this was your wing's encampment, and all of the players were from your wing).

[Daniel]

This sounds like a conversation you need to have with your Squadron/CC and your Wing DCP (I am assuming that this was your wing's encampment, and all of the players were from your wing).

I have, and it was absolutely not my wing I was a guest at another wing.

[Al Sayre]

If the C/CC and C/XO that replaced you were from that wing, there probably isn't much that can be done.  While it wasn't handled very well, it was their sandbox, and their DCP & Encampment/CC get to make their rules...

[Daniel]

If the C/CC and C/XO that replaced you were from that wing, there probably isn't much that can be done.  While it wasn't handled very well, it was their sandbox, and their DCP & Encampment/CC get to make their rules...

Yup and as long as I get my money back. I could care less. I'm not going back to that wing... um ever.

[lordmonar]

So.

You are telling me....you don't care a whit about putting on a good quality product for your cadets.....all you care about is haveing a job title.

Sorry Daniel.....I know you feel hurt....but I'm not buying into it.

Leadership is about getting the job done and you quit because they were treating you bad.  Welcome to life.

[Daniel]

So.

You are telling me....you don't care a whit about putting on a good quality product for your cadets.....all you care about is haveing a job title.

Sorry Daniel.....I know you feel hurt....but I'm not buying into it.

Leadership is about getting the job done and you quit because they were treating you bad.  Welcome to life.

Not exactly, I quit because they wounldn't let me get the job done. I quit because I was sidelined.

Now I didn't post this because I wanted to put any wing out. I wanted to see one thing, which is if the changes in slotting of staff is a cardinal sin everywhere and if I was putting too much empasis on the whole thing.

[N Harmon]

As CAP members we accept that we must be flexible in our assignments and that they are always "subject to the needs of the mission/activity".  If I arrive at a mission as the only qualified X, and a X is really needed, then it is salute and execute time. Semper gumby, and all of that.

Except that does not seem to be the case here.  Here you had a person arrive prepared to do a job and was replaced by another not so prepared, because the later was a friend of the commander. I believe I would be pretty angry too.

[jimmydeanno]

There is a significant difference in being hired to be a C/XO for an encampment and being bumped to Audio Visual cadet, and showing up and being asked if you can be Deputy Commander instead.  To have a cadet travel from another wing, under the assumption they are going to fill a specific role only to tell them, without notice, that they aren't needed is rude and violates our core value of respect.

Checking into a mission base and being assigned as a CUL instead of GBD isn't a fair comparison.  Imagine being asked to be a squadron commander, then the first day you show up to do the job there is someone else standing in front of the formation.

[ZigZag911]

The cadet CC or Commandant of Cadets should have had the integrity to call you before you left home (ideally several days before, so you could consider the situation), explained the situation, and let you decide whether to participate under these circumstances.

Even then, it's a lousy thing to do to somebody, anybody, at the last minute...perhaps there is more to this story, but even so, it could have been handled better.

For instance, the C/Major who came aboard at the last minute could have been give "AV/Medical", or some other support or training role...perhaps Stan/eval?

[lordmonar]

There is a significant difference in being hired to be a C/XO for an encampment and being bumped to Audio Visual cadet, and showing up and being asked if you can be Deputy Commander instead.  To have a cadet travel from another wing, under the assumption they are going to fill a specific role only to tell them, without notice, that they aren't needed is rude and violates our core value of respect.

Checking into a mission base and being assigned as a CUL instead of GBD isn't a fair comparison.  Imagine being asked to be a squadron commander, then the first day you show up to do the job there is someone else standing in front of the formation.

How so?

The C/Lt was hired because the C/Maj was unavailable.  The C/Maj became avialible.....I don't see the problem.

Again...I can feel his pain.  It is not easy getting the rug pulled out from under you.  The leadership lesson is what followed.  Do you focus on the mission and get the job done....or do you get all hurt and go home.

He withdrew from encampment...........that means he feels his personal situation is more imporatant than the mission at hand.

Nope....not going to get on his side at all.

If he stuck it out......then maybe I would be "Dude...that sucks.....theose leaders are tools"......but in this case it is ....."He's a quiter".

[PHall]

There is a significant difference in being hired to be a C/XO for an encampment and being bumped to Audio Visual cadet, and showing up and being asked if you can be Deputy Commander instead.  To have a cadet travel from another wing, under the assumption they are going to fill a specific role only to tell them, without notice, that they aren't needed is rude and violates our core value of respect.

Checking into a mission base and being assigned as a CUL instead of GBD isn't a fair comparison.  Imagine being asked to be a squadron commander, then the first day you show up to do the job there is someone else standing in front of the formation.

How so?

The C/Lt was hired because the C/Maj was unavailable.  The C/Maj became avialible.....I don't see the problem.

Again...I can feel his pain.  It is not easy getting the rug pulled out from under you.  The leadership lesson is what followed.  Do you focus on the mission and get the job done....or do you get all hurt and go home.

He withdrew from encampment...........that means he feels his personal situation is more imporatant than the mission at hand.

Nope....not going to get on his side at all.

If he stuck it out......then maybe I would be "Dude...that sucks.....theose leaders are tools"......but in this case it is ....."He's a quiter".

The C/Lt did all of the prep work and the C/Maj can just waltz in and take his job. Sorry Pat, that's BS and you know it.
The C/Maj made his choice, he went to COS. So why should he get both "good deals" and the C/Lt gets the shaft?

[lordmonar]

A job is the shaft?

That's my point....no one got shafted.

Yes he is disappointed.  Yes Medical is not as "good" as XO.  Yes the Lt did all the prep work.

But let's supposes for a second....just one second......that Dan L's story is not the whole story.

Let's suppose for a second....that Dan L was originally slated for medical all along but they just did not have anyone to fill the position.  Then at the last minute a round peg arrived to fill the round hole.

Fair?  No.....but what in life is fair.

PHall we both know that in the real military this happens all the time.  Some poor Lt or SSgt is given a task and works his butt off...then at the 90% mark a Major or MSgt comes in "takes over" and gets all the kudos.

It sucks...I'm not saying it does not suck.....what I am saying is that it is life....and real leaders push on.  They take what ever job is given and move on.   They don't quit.

Dan L left encampment.....the medical job is empty because he is not doing that job.....leadership fail.

Was the C/CC and the encampment comandant tools for the way they pulled the rug from under his feet?  Sure thing.....that's life.  We will have have to work for tools one day......how you react to it.....tells me what sort of person you are.

[Daniel]

A job is the shaft?

That's my point....no one got shafted.

Yes he is disappointed.  Yes Medical is not as "good" as XO.  Yes the Lt did all the prep work.

But let's supposes for a second....just one second......that Dan L's story is not the whole story.

Let's suppose for a second....that Dan L was originally slated for medical all along but they just did not have anyone to fill the position.  Then at the last minute a round peg arrived to fill the round hole.

Fair?  No.....but what in life is fair.

PHall we both know that in the real military this happens all the time.  Some poor Lt or SSgt is given a task and works his butt off...then at the 90% mark a Major or MSgt comes in "takes over" and gets all the kudos.

It sucks...I'm not saying it does not suck.....what I am saying is that it is life....and real leaders push on.  They take what ever job is given and move on.   They don't quit.

Dan L left encampment.....the medical job is empty because he is not doing that job.....leadership fail.

Was the C/CC and the encampment comandant tools for the way they pulled the rug from under his feet?  Sure thing.....that's life.  We will have have to work for tools one day......how you react to it.....tells me what sort of person you are.

That would be great but it wasn't like that.

1) I didn't get slated for medical, I was slated for XO from when I was offered to when I accepted.