Hawk Mt. Staff Training is it the hardest in CAP?

[SarDragon]

I think he may have left the building.

[PaulR]

I certainly hope not... I wish that he direct some of that surplus testosterone that he was throwing out earlier to man up, learn from his mistake, and move forward.  This is a great board, where I feel he could learn and contribute a great deal. 

[RWitkowski]

I completed HMRS staff training in 2009, and I do agree that it is a challenging program, both physically and mentally. I learned quite a few things that helped me greatly with my GTM quals. I also wound up with trench foot and about a dozen blisters from both pairs of my boots being perpetually soaked for the whole week, due in large part to inattentive cadet medics. In addition to that nastiness, I watched cadets from my wing, even some of my friends, pick up that infamous "ranger attitude", and that negatively affected my view of HMRS the most. They picked up an elitist, "I'm better than everyone" mindset that was only enhanced by all the fancy bling that they give out at the school. That attitude, which was made to look acceptable by the staff at Hawk, makes cadets look like fools in training environments that require learning new things, accepting new ideas, or more difficult activities. After I completed Cadet Survival School in 2010, I realized how backwards the HMRS training is. I still think the ES training at Hawk is great, but I encourage other cadets to refrain from embracing the less favorable parts of the school.

[sarmed1]

I also wound up with trench foot and about a dozen blisters from both pairs of my boots being perpetually soaked for the whole week, due in large part to inattentive cadet medics

Generally speaking those types of injuries are due in large part to you not paying attention to your own feet....basic ranger skills that you would have been signed off as profecient in, include general foot care, blister care and recognition, treatment and prevention of trench foot.  Medics doing cursurary foot checks at the end of the training day should have noticed that you saying you were ok didnt match up with what they may have been seeing, but thats still a more you than them sort of deal.

mk

[Eclipse]

Which also highlights a good reason why there should never be an insinuation that CAP staff are providing any sort of health care or treatment, and that cadet should never, ever, be charged with that.

[NCRblues]

I completed HMRS staff training in 2009, and I do agree that it is a challenging program, both physically and mentally. I learned quite a few things that helped me greatly with my GTM quals. I also wound up with trench foot and about a dozen blisters from both pairs of my boots being perpetually soaked for the whole week, due in large part to inattentive cadet medics. In addition to that nastiness, I watched cadets from my wing, even some of my friends, pick up that infamous "ranger attitude", and that negatively affected my view of HMRS the most. They picked up an elitist, "I'm better than everyone" mindset that was only enhanced by all the fancy bling that they give out at the school. That attitude, which was made to look acceptable by the staff at Hawk, makes cadets look like fools in training environments that require learning new things, accepting new ideas, or more difficult activities. After I completed Cadet Survival School in 2010, I realized how backwards the HMRS training is. I still think the ES training at Hawk is great, but I encourage other cadets to refrain from embracing the less favorable parts of the school.

Who in there correct frame of mind places cadets in charge of ANYTHING medical?

And how would you explain that to another child's parent?

Angry parent : " who lets a 16 year old be a medical officer?"
CAP member: "uh....... here is the wing commander, talk to him"
Wing Commander: "WHAT?"

^ I'm pretty sure that's how that would play out....

[Spaceman3750]

I completed HMRS staff training in 2009, and I do agree that it is a challenging program, both physically and mentally. I learned quite a few things that helped me greatly with my GTM quals. I also wound up with trench foot and about a dozen blisters from both pairs of my boots being perpetually soaked for the whole week, due in large part to inattentive cadet medics. In addition to that nastiness, I watched cadets from my wing, even some of my friends, pick up that infamous "ranger attitude", and that negatively affected my view of HMRS the most. They picked up an elitist, "I'm better than everyone" mindset that was only enhanced by all the fancy bling that they give out at the school. That attitude, which was made to look acceptable by the staff at Hawk, makes cadets look like fools in training environments that require learning new things, accepting new ideas, or more difficult activities. After I completed Cadet Survival School in 2010, I realized how backwards the HMRS training is. I still think the ES training at Hawk is great, but I encourage other cadets to refrain from embracing the less favorable parts of the school.

If you need a medic of any kind to tell you that your feet are having issues, stay the heck out of the field. It is YOUR responsibility to identify any issues with your body that are arising. If you cannot fix them yourself, you seek out medical care until you find someone who can fix it. Don't even try to blame your feet on the medics, that's your problem.

[Eclipse]

Who in there correct frame of mind places cadets in charge of ANYTHING medical?

Spend some time with Google and yo will find any number of photos of cadets with stethescopes and references to "triage", "sick call", etc.  Some are self-appointed, some are overtly part of the health staff at various activities. 

Some are older cadets who are EMT's in the non-CAP world, some have only had advanced first aid, first responder or the like.

[Майор Хаткевич]

NIN tends to post a lot of good stuff.

I do believe most of the "tude" comes from within the cadet ranks, not the activities themselves. However I tend to believe it is the cadet staff at the activities having too much free reign in establishing the attitudes.

Two situations  (based on personal experience):

1) Cadets plan to go to Honor Guard Academy 2005 in order to learn those Suh-Weet rifle spins and to bring that back to their unit color guard. They go, they learn, they wear the uncomfortable uniforms, and they end up heading home with nicer rifles than the unit springfield wood replicas, as well as training the unit color guard to a better level with more understanding of the basic functions.

2) Cadets plan to go to Hawk Mountain to be a "Ranger" and for the Suh-weet patches, whistles and what not. They don't really do anything in ES post event, and have an issue when told to take off the Hawk patch he was told he can wear AT Hawk (but who knows) from their left BDU sleeve because that's not actually authorized in the wing.

The issue I always had is that MOST of the "tude" in my area were Hawk folks. Blue Beret is the closest event to us, and yes, some people got the "tude", but most were Hawk. I've run into very few HGA attendees outside the 3 that went with me during 2005 and one that went before it was an NCSA.

Now, I don't think that it's the Senior staff nurturing the attitude at the activities. I DO believe it's the Cadet Staff with little oversight from Senior staff when it does happen. Tie that in with the cadet's initial expectation and you get...the "tude"

[manfredvonrichthofen]

I have even this issue WIWAC just from an encampment. I went to one, and luckily my attitude didn't change from before I went. The encampment was run pretty much all by cadets, with little interaction from the Senior Members, heck WIWAC there wasn't much interaction between cadets and SM's, and I am glad to see that that has changed. I saw cadets later on in my "cadet career" that went to encampment calling it just the one word "basic" with an I am better than you attitude and they didn't seem to care what anyone had to say. As a cadet commander I tried to make sure that it didn't happen anymore. Before a cadet would go to encampment we would sit down with them, myself and a couple of SM's and talk to them about encampment and what to expect when y get there, and how it comes into play in the squadron. Trying to make sure that everything went smoothly as possible for the cadet. We didn't want any I am better than you attitudes, and we wanted everyone to get the training that they wanted.

Try talking to cadets before they go to any schools so that they know what to expect and how it comes into play at the squadron, and what you expect of them when they return. Most of the time I am sure you want them to take a role of element leader or some sort of role model. The attitude doesn't help them to do that, and make sure they know that.

[airdale12]

I heard that Hawk Mt. is the hardest staff training program in all of CAP and no other school trains their staff as much. Is this true?

See the quote above of your original post wanting to know if HMRS staff training was the biggest and baddest around.  Now you say what you really wanted were other programs in CAP that might be just as or more challenging.  So here are a couple of suggestions you might consider, PJOC, Cadet Survival School, Combat Controllers Course or maybe the Civil Engineering Fam Course.  Some of these are NCSAs and some are run by Wings.  Check them out and see if they meet your needs.

Can u tell me more about Cadet Survival School??

[DC]

Can u tell me more about Cadet Survival School??

http://www.cadetsurvivalschool.org/

Quite possibly the most bad-[FPOC] CAP activity ever.

[airdale12]

Slow your roll Cadet Adams,

Many Colonels frequent this forum, some from your wing.  With your name and unit number posted it would be in your best interest not to be openly disrespecting CAP officers (read: Senior Members).  I advise that you reread the code of conduct for the forum, and not get too worked up over some of the opinions you find on this board, especially ones from threads that are almost a year old.

If the response that are given to cadets here by senior members are taking in consideration, many of them wouldnt be Captains, Majors, and others.

[Stonewall]

Can u tell me more about Cadet Survival School??

http://www.cadetsurvivalschool.org/

Quite possibly the most bad-[FPOC] CAP activity ever.

True DAT!  Unfortunately CSS will not occur this year because its creator/director/dude in charge is out doing his real job [bringing it to the bad guys].  I too am on CSS staff and within walking distance of the CSS head dude in charge.  We talked about it over chow and there just isn't a way for CSS to happen this summer.  A winter CSS?  Perhaps...stay tuned.

On a side note, as someone who has been to HMRS and NESA, CSS is by far the BEST activity CAP has to offer, hands down.  Its graduates are few and far between and they remain discreet, yet professional.  For the most part, it's a word-of-mouth sort of thing.  The website gives good information, but head over to CadetStuff where CSS is discussed in depth.  Here is the link to the 2010 discussion.

[Eclipse]

If the response that are given to cadets here by senior members are taking in consideration, many of them wouldnt be Captains, Majors, and others.

I thought you requested to have your account deleted?

No one knew walking in you were a cadet.  It was only this post and some of you other comments that gave us any clue.

If you feel you need a more cadet-centric forum, perhaps Cadetstuff would be a better venue.

Regardless, time to learn that on the internet no one knows you are a dog and your ideas and comments live or die on their merits.

[airdale12]

If the response that are given to cadets here by senior members are taking in consideration, many of them wouldnt be Captains, Majors, and others.

I thought you requested to have your account deleted?

No one knew walking in you were a cadet.  It was only this post and some of you other comments that gave us any clue.

If you feel you need a more cadet-centric forum, perhaps Cadetstuff would be a better venue.

Regardless, time to learn that on the internet no one knows you are a dog and your ideas and comments live or die on their merits.

I did want my account deleted but after PM a modulator he told me they dont do such thing, unfortunately!

Im not talking about me, im talking about what they said to the other cadet about respect, most of the senior member here show no respect. (One thing that surprised me about this forum)

[a2capt]

I did want my account deleted but after PM a modulator he told me they dont do such thing, unfortunately!

Did someone mean a Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator??

I had the cadet aspect pegged almost instantly. Can't hide that.. I don't think I've EVER seen a Senior Member go that ape silly about Hawk Mountain.

[jeders]

If the response that are given to cadets here by senior members are taking in consideration, many of them wouldnt be Captains, Majors, and others.

I thought you requested to have your account deleted?

No one knew walking in you were a cadet.  It was only this post and some of you other comments that gave us any clue.

If you feel you need a more cadet-centric forum, perhaps Cadetstuff would be a better venue.

Regardless, time to learn that on the internet no one knows you are a dog and your ideas and comments live or die on their merits.

I did want my account deleted but after PM a modulator he told me they dont do such thing, unfortunately!

Im not talking about me, im talking about what they said to the other cadet about respect, most of the senior member here show no respect. (One thing that surprised me about this forum)

:Grabs popcorn and takes a seat: Let's watch and see what happens next.

[Spaceman3750]

If the response that are given to cadets here by senior members are taking in consideration, many of them wouldnt be Captains, Majors, and others.

I thought you requested to have your account deleted?

No one knew walking in you were a cadet.  It was only this post and some of you other comments that gave us any clue.

If you feel you need a more cadet-centric forum, perhaps Cadetstuff would be a better venue.

Regardless, time to learn that on the internet no one knows you are a dog and your ideas and comments live or die on their merits.

I did want my account deleted but after PM a modulator he told me they dont do such thing, unfortunately!

Im not talking about me, im talking about what they said to the other cadet about respect, most of the senior member here show no respect. (One thing that surprised me about this forum)

Because we don't always agree with everyone and tend to correct people with poor grammar and spelling? I will admit that some of our members can be a bit adamant sometimes but I haven't personally seen anything lately where a cadet has been truly disrespected. We're allowed to disagree with each other. We frequently do.

[airdale12]

I did want my account deleted but after PM a modulator he told me they dont do such thing, unfortunately!

Did someone mean a Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator??

I had the cadet aspect pegged almost instantly. Can't hide that.. I don't think I've EVER seen a Senior Member go that ape silly about Hawk Mountain.

HAHAHAHAHA very funny