Blue berets questions

[Eagle]

Thank you sir.

[MICT1362]

lordmonar,

To my knowledge, it has never not been given out.  However, we have taken them away from specific individuals for their actions that are against what we do. 

If you give it everything that you've got, then you will earn your beret.  Show up, be lazy, be insubordinate, and just generally don't care... probably don't deserve it. 

I think maybe you misunderstood what I was getting at.  If on the first operational day, the entire activity rocks out every single assignment, there are no issues, and there is literally nothing to complain about, then everybody may get berets after Ops Day 1.  But on the other hand, it may take everybody an entire week to figure it out....

Medic-

[DakRadz]

I don't normally participate in uniform discussions, because they're generally pointless. But it is amazing that an otherwise intelligent person could cherry pick the NB minutes into supporting their personal opinion on uniform wear.

The Follow-On Action listed in the minutes required three distinct and separate actions to occur:
1) National Headquarters implementation of policy. 2) Notification to the field. 3) Change to appropriate CAP regulations.

None of these occurred.

The NB approved the items and defined the steps required for implementation. Again, it was the NB who defined these steps, not someone else spinning the topic to meet their own agenda.

Personally, I don't care one way or the other about the bling. I don't know how the Air Force feels about the bling. The simple fact is the actions defined by the NB never occurred. Why does the debate continue?

Everyone is ignoring him. Why?

[NCRblues]

Eagle,

The beret should never be your reason for attending this activity.  The mission is the most important part at NBB.  However, to answer your question, the awarding of both the Blue Beret and St. Albans Cross is at the discretion of the Command Staff.  This includes the Director, Assistant Director, Cadet Commander, and some other senior staff members.

It could be given out day 1, or you might not get it till the last day.  You could potentially not receive them at all if you don't earn them.

Medic-

Then why do the give them out?

The whole purpose of the Blue Beret at NBB is a reward for doing a good job at NBB. 

I know what you mean.....we should be teaching our cadets (and SMs) that doing a job well should be its own reward......but the whole concept of bling (or any other reward) is to encourage people to do those jobs in the first place.

This year, NHQ made NBB come up with a checklist that must be completed in order to earn the beret. Complete all the ics classes for ES, actively participate in the mission at NBB, be a team player and so forth and so on.

This year a cadet did not earn his beret, the first i can remember. This cadet refused to do the ICS courses and was constantly at the medics office complaining of everything from being tired to wooping cough. It was decided by command staff that the cadet did not complete 80% of the activity and did not qualify to earn the beret.

The beret and pin are handed out at different times. On top of the director and assistant director, the chief TAC, flight TAC, ES section chief, and cadet flight commander are asked to give a thumbs up or down on the whole flight earning berets and or pins. If we have a single thumbs down, they wait. Sometimes its very fast that a flight pulls together and sometimes its the last day.

This year, on top of our normal function of aircraft marshalling on 9-27, es, warbirds and ultralights, we were tasked with establishing and maintain a cordon for the f-16 accident scene. The adjutant general of Alabama (that's where the 16 was from) personally called the command staff and thanked CAP for the PROFESSIONAL response. The general also wants to give the flights that responded a Alabama state guard award. That is currently in talks between NHQ and Alabama TAG.

Beret is more to me than just a hat. Our cadets are seen by every pilot who lands 9-27. Our cadets are seen performing ES in front of almost 100k visitors a day to the airshow. We located more overdue's and ELTs on the airfield alone than ALL of CAP combined for last year. Our cadets served as honor guard for the "honor flight Oshkosh" and the C.N.O personally thanked the 2 flights that worked it. Our cadets were personally asked for by Dick Rutan to establish a cordon for his experimental aircraft. For the first time in NBB history a whole flight got to go up in the worlds busiest control tower (while the airshow was going on) to see operations in the tower. (this is unheard of at Oshkosh, and we think a first for ANYONE to volunteer or attend the airshow)

Beret is much more than attending an airshow with a little ES thrown in. It is the largest AF mission that CAP Carry's out year after year. We may not make the EAA newspapers, but at our banquet, Garry the head EAA flight line chairman was in tears because of the amount of work the cadets and SM's do for them. He flat out said " without cap, general aviation fly in could not happen, we simply do not have enough people".

Year after year i am amazed that 200 teenagers from around the nation can come together and complete the missions we ask them to. People who have never spoken to each other before handle THOUSANDS of aircraft and hold THOUSANDS of lives in their hands everyday for 2 weeks. It amazes me, and simply brings me to tears. If i could, I would go back every year, because the mission and the cadets deserve SM's who care, and are dedicated, and can get past poorly written regs or worthless hats....

I AM A BLUE BERET, FOLLOW ME.

[lordmonar]

I think you both missed my point.

MICT1362 said

The beret should never be your reason for attending this activity.

I was pointing out that he was wrong.

We (the leaders and planners) use the carrot of the beret to get come out and do the job.  We use the tool of the beret to instill pride in our selves, our accomplishments and our mission.

By saying "the beret should never be your reason for attending" blunts the tools we have developed to make this and other missions so effective.

I am not implying that they "just hand them out".....not for minute.  I have never been to NBB but I know several who have and I have worked enough airshows myself to know they are a lot of work and if the beret is enough to get people TO PAY for the pleasure of working the buttocks off for two weeks.......then I am all for it.

I hope to be able to get the time off next year to go to NBB....but I may be going the NCS this year....so I don't know.

[PA Guy]

Sorry, I just don't get it.

Every time this topic comes up and drags on for pages I have to ask myself what makes NBB so special that it requires its own distinctive headgear. I get it, the activity requires long hrs. so what, so do many other NCSAs and they seem to get by with a patch and a ribbon. What is it about NBB that requires their graduates to have a patch, ribbon and beret? Does that mean that activities that send their graduates home with a ribbon and patch are lesser activities? Are the graduates of other NCSAs lesser cadets, not as hard working or hard core as NBB graduates?

Like I said, I just don't get it

[lordmonar]

Well like anything....it has its traditions and you don't screw with them.

Does it "need" its own hat?  Nope.  But it's got one....so press on.
But the same is true with just about everything we do.  Do we need uniforms?  Nope...we can do the mission without those...but it helps.  Do we need rank?  Nope but it makes people feel good.  Do we need pretty red white and blue planes?  Nope.....Blaze Orange would make more sense and what ever is off the Cesnna floor that year would be cheaper.

So any argument that starts with "Why do you need....." is usally a no winner to start off.

We use the beret as a tool.....simple as that.  If it works you use it.....if starts getting in the way you put it away and get a new tool.

What I don't understand is why everyone hates the hat so much.

You don't like it...don't wear it.  You don't like others wearing it....get a command position and ban it.  You don't want anyone in CAP to ever wear it ever again including at NBB....bet on the NB and make a proposal to delete it from 39-1.

[Zen Master Charlie]

I just have to point this out to eclipse... 180 degrees sir... one hundred and eighty degrees. 

"an eye for an eye"

[Eclipse]

?

[Zen Master Charlie]

So yesterday I wore my beret to mission base at a SAREX (Yes I did not wear it in the field, though nothing says I can't, I still don't mainly because I don't want to get it dirty, and I don't want to stir another hornets nest on the whole 'beret in the field thing') And a Maj who runs a local GSAR walked by me and my buddy (also wearing his beret) and told us in a VERY sarcastic tone (I mean VERY VERY sarcastic) "Nice beret boys" Now, I know it doesnt sound like much, but I've known this guy for a while and he his much much like Eclipse it, infact I thought he was Eclipse for a while. But my buddy and I only laughed and carried on because he was wearing an un-approved GSAR baseball cap with metal major insignia on it...

While rank brings authority, the person brings hypocracy...    

Oh and I had many cadets tell me I couldn't wear it, I smiled, didn't say a word and kept walking (they obviously don't know our Wing CC is ok with them) 

Just so Eclipse knows: Your words are steriotype... I will wear my beret proud to the worlds end, unless I'm told to take it off by the person incharge. Here is my plan, just an fyi:

-In my squadron I will wear it until my CC says no.

-At an encampment, I will wear it untill the encampment CC says no, but even then I will come home to my unit and continue wearing it.

-Some day maybe I will wear it to an activity that you are incharge of, you tell me not to wear it, I take it off. I come home to my unit and put it back on again.

-In all of these cases, if I'm wearing it, and someone higher ranking than I, but not in my chain tells me to take it off, I will do so, but as soon as I turn the corner, it goes back on my head, and I send word up my chain for confirmation...

All of my fellow berets I have worked with (except one out of 20) will do the same. 1 out of 20 will do what you keep explaining... He will say "but at beret they said I could so I'm not taking it off" and quite frankly I think that kid has a mental disability or something... so, 1 out of 20... if this is an accurate statistic, thats 5% of beret grads with that attitude.

But I don't blame you for this steriotype, and I don't think anyone really does. Because were all human and make the same mistakes. The negatives ALWAYS outweigh the posotives... its unfortunate but true. It works the same way with racism, or racist steriotypes. People see one person doing something wrong and they lable the other 99% of people as just as bad. Our CAP commanders always tell us to be on our best behavior in public because were representing CAP and the USAF. But what do they really mean:
'If we screw up and set a bad example, people will think all of CAP and all of th USAF are like that..." its just a simple fact of human nature.

So please reconsider your steriotype. 

[Zen Master Charlie]

?

I just noticed a few posters were labling you as agressive and hostile... sounds like something you did to me a couple months ago 

[PHall]

So yesterday I wore my beret to mission base at a SAREX (Yes I did not wear it in the field, though nothing says I can't, I still don't mainly because I don't want to get it dirty, and I don't want to stir another hornets nest on the whole 'beret in the field thing') And a Maj who runs a local GSAR walked by me and my buddy (also wearing his beret) and told us in a VERY sarcastic tone (I mean VERY VERY sarcastic) "Nice beret boys" Now, I know it doesnt sound like much, but I've known this guy for a while and he his much much like Eclipse it, infact I thought he was Eclipse for a while. But my buddy and I only laughed and carried on because he was wearing an un-approved GSAR baseball cap with metal major insignia on it...

While rank brings authority, the person brings hypocracy...    

Oh and I had many cadets tell me I couldn't wear it, I smiled, didn't say a word and kept walking (they obviously don't know our Wing CC is ok with them) 

Just so Eclipse knows: Your words are steriotype... I will wear my beret proud to the worlds end, unless I'm told to take it off by the person incharge. Here is my plan, just an fyi:

-In my squadron I will wear it until my CC says no.

-At an encampment, I will wear it untill the encampment CC says no, but even then I will come home to my unit and continue wearing it.

-Some day maybe I will wear it to an activity that you are incharge of, you tell me not to wear it, I take it off. I come home to my unit and put it back on again.

-In all of these cases, if I'm wearing it, and someone higher ranking than I, but not in my chain tells me to take it off, I will do so, but as soon as I turn the corner, it goes back on my head, and I send word up my chain for confirmation...

All of my fellow berets I have worked with (except one out of 20) will do the same. 1 out of 20 will do what you keep explaining... He will say "but at beret they said I could so I'm not taking it off" and quite frankly I think that kid has a mental disability or something... so, 1 out of 20... if this is an accurate statistic, thats 5% of beret grads with that attitude.

But I don't blame you for this steriotype, and I don't think anyone really does. Because were all human and make the same mistakes. The negatives ALWAYS outweigh the posotives... its unfortunate but true. It works the same way with racism, or racist steriotypes. People see one person doing something wrong and they lable the other 99% of people as just as bad. Our CAP commanders always tell us to be on our best behavior in public because were representing CAP and the USAF. But what do they really mean:
'If we screw up and set a bad example, people will think all of CAP and all of th USAF are like that..." its just a simple fact of human nature.

So please reconsider your steriotype. 

You would figure that an 18 year old Earhart Award receiptant would know enough to spellcheck before they post.
I guess not...

[davidsinn]

So yesterday I wore my beret to mission base at a SAREX (Yes I did not wear it in the field, though nothing says I can't, I still don't mainly because I don't want to get it dirty, and I don't want to stir another hornets nest on the whole 'beret in the field thing') And a Maj who runs a local GSAR walked by me and my buddy (also wearing his beret) and told us in a VERY sarcastic tone (I mean VERY VERY sarcastic) "Nice beret boys" Now, I know it doesnt sound like much, but I've known this guy for a while and he his much much like Eclipse it, infact I thought he was Eclipse for a while. But my buddy and I only laughed and carried on because he was wearing an un-approved GSAR baseball cap with metal major insignia on it...

While rank brings authority, the person brings hypocracy...    

Oh and I had many cadets tell me I couldn't wear it, I smiled, didn't say a word and kept walking (they obviously don't know our Wing CC is ok with them) 

Just so Eclipse knows: Your words are steriotype... I will wear my beret proud to the worlds end, unless I'm told to take it off by the person incharge. Here is my plan, just an fyi:

-In my squadron I will wear it until my CC says no.

-At an encampment, I will wear it untill the encampment CC says no, but even then I will come home to my unit and continue wearing it.

-Some day maybe I will wear it to an activity that you are incharge of, you tell me not to wear it, I take it off. I come home to my unit and put it back on again.

-In all of these cases, if I'm wearing it, and someone higher ranking than I, but not in my chain tells me to take it off, I will do so, but as soon as I turn the corner, it goes back on my head, and I send word up my chain for confirmation...

All of my fellow berets I have worked with (except one out of 20) will do the same. 1 out of 20 will do what you keep explaining... He will say "but at beret they said I could so I'm not taking it off" and quite frankly I think that kid has a mental disability or something... so, 1 out of 20... if this is an accurate statistic, thats 5% of beret grads with that attitude.

But I don't blame you for this steriotype, and I don't think anyone really does. Because were all human and make the same mistakes. The negatives ALWAYS outweigh the posotives... its unfortunate but true. It works the same way with racism, or racist steriotypes. People see one person doing something wrong and they lable the other 99% of people as just as bad. Our CAP commanders always tell us to be on our best behavior in public because were representing CAP and the USAF. But what do they really mean:
'If we screw up and set a bad example, people will think all of CAP and all of th USAF are like that..." its just a simple fact of human nature.

So please reconsider your steriotype. 

You are a prime example of the arrogance he was talking about. You don't do something knowing it's controversial without seeking approval first. If there is a chance someone in authority that you have to listen do will say no you don't do that thing until you know for sure what the answer is.

[NC Hokie]

-In all of these cases, if I'm wearing it, and someone higher ranking than I, but not in my chain tells me to take it off, I will do so, but as soon as I turn the corner, it goes back on my head, and I send word up my chain for confirmation...

Not a very good example to set for your peers and subordinates.  Do that for real and it won't be long before they're doing the same to you...

As a leadership exercise, you might want to consider WHY the cadet program starts teaching leadership by teaching how to be a good follower.

[Camas]

Two things - don't question any senior member giving you instructions or an order. Just follow it. Get off this "chain of command" nonsense. You're a cadet and cadets don't get into needless arguments with senior members. Second - a question if I may - are your learning anything at all from from the responses from senior members on CAP talk? Is it just possible that your attitude needs an adjustment? Just asking. On a positive note I commend you for earning that Earhart - way to go!

[JayT]

So yesterday I wore my beret to mission base at a SAREX (Yes I did not wear it in the field, though nothing says I can't, I still don't mainly because I don't want to get it dirty, and I don't want to stir another hornets nest on the whole 'beret in the field thing') And a Maj who runs a local GSAR walked by me and my buddy (also wearing his beret) and told us in a VERY sarcastic tone (I mean VERY VERY sarcastic) "Nice beret boys" Now, I know it doesnt sound like much, but I've known this guy for a while and he his much much like Eclipse it, infact I thought he was Eclipse for a while. But my buddy and I only laughed and carried on because he was wearing an un-approved GSAR baseball cap with metal major insignia on it...

While rank brings authority, the person brings hypocracy...    

Oh and I had many cadets tell me I couldn't wear it, I smiled, didn't say a word and kept walking (they obviously don't know our Wing CC is ok with them) 

Just so Eclipse knows: Your words are steriotype... I will wear my beret proud to the worlds end, unless I'm told to take it off by the person incharge. Here is my plan, just an fyi:

-In my squadron I will wear it until my CC says no.

-At an encampment, I will wear it untill the encampment CC says no, but even then I will come home to my unit and continue wearing it.

-Some day maybe I will wear it to an activity that you are incharge of, you tell me not to wear it, I take it off. I come home to my unit and put it back on again.

-In all of these cases, if I'm wearing it, and someone higher ranking than I, but not in my chain tells me to take it off, I will do so, but as soon as I turn the corner, it goes back on my head, and I send word up my chain for confirmation...

All of my fellow berets I have worked with (except one out of 20) will do the same. 1 out of 20 will do what you keep explaining... He will say "but at beret they said I could so I'm not taking it off" and quite frankly I think that kid has a mental disability or something... so, 1 out of 20... if this is an accurate statistic, thats 5% of beret grads with that attitude.

But I don't blame you for this steriotype, and I don't think anyone really does. Because were all human and make the same mistakes. The negatives ALWAYS outweigh the posotives... its unfortunate but true. It works the same way with racism, or racist steriotypes. People see one person doing something wrong and they lable the other 99% of people as just as bad. Our CAP commanders always tell us to be on our best behavior in public because were representing CAP and the USAF. But what do they really mean:
'If we screw up and set a bad example, people will think all of CAP and all of th USAF are like that..." its just a simple fact of human nature.

So please reconsider your steriotype. 

Dude, seriously, what is your problem? Do you have a job? Does it require you to show up someplace and to follow a dress code? Did you read the Leadership 2000 book? Do you have any idea how the real world works?

Congrats, you're a Cadet Captain. Mature and man up, and stop giving lip to people who are trying to help you grow and mature. Also, spell check takes about thirty seconds. Invest in it.

[SarDragon]

I've sent him two PMs regarding his apparent writing skills, and both have been ignored.

[Nathan]

As a person who has attended NBB and has the beret hanging on my "I love me" wall at home, I cannot stop banging my head on my desk after reading some of the arguments pro-beret people are making.

There is no reason, in my mind, that the beret is a necessary "carrot" for the activity. As a cadet, I eagerly accepted ANY opportunity to participate in an active mission. From most of them, my only souvenir are pictures. A hat isn't necessary to make a cadet want to do something like NBB, especially since the work that cadets do at the activity is pretty important. I'm not sure what the staffing situation is like for the airshow people, but I do know that marshaling aircraft can be dangerous work during the chaos for both cadets and seniors. If the hats are really necessary to convince cadets to go work one of the biggest airshows in the world in positions that actually MATTER, then that's an advertising problem on NBB's part, not a reason that berets are necessary.

So yesterday I wore my beret to mission base at a SAREX (Yes I did not wear it in the field, though nothing says I can't, I still don't mainly because I don't want to get it dirty, and I don't want to stir another hornets nest on the whole 'beret in the field thing') And a Maj who runs a local GSAR walked by me and my buddy (also wearing his beret) and told us in a VERY sarcastic tone (I mean VERY VERY sarcastic) "Nice beret boys" Now, I know it doesnt sound like much, but I've known this guy for a while and he his much much like Eclipse it, infact I thought he was Eclipse for a while. But my buddy and I only laughed and carried on because he was wearing an un-approved GSAR baseball cap with metal major insignia on it...

While rank brings authority, the person brings hypocracy...   

It's a logical fallacy to assume that hypocrisy means that a person's argument is wrong. Just because he looks silly wearing a GSAR hat doesn't keep you from also looking silly wearing a ceremonial hat during a SAREX.

Oh and I had many cadets tell me I couldn't wear it, I smiled, didn't say a word and kept walking (they obviously don't know our Wing CC is ok with them) 

Hopefully that's in writing somewhere.

Just so Eclipse knows: Your words are steriotype... I will wear my beret proud to the worlds end, unless I'm told to take it off by the person incharge.

You need new priorities.

-In my squadron I will wear it until my CC says no.

Or you could not wear it until your CC says yes, which is generally how things are supposed to work. Lest I show up in purple boots because no one's told me not to yet.

-In all of these cases, if I'm wearing it, and someone higher ranking than I, but not in my chain tells me to take it off, I will do so, but as soon as I turn the corner, it goes back on my head, and I send word up my chain for confirmation...

Actually, if someone of higher rank gives you an order, they don't need to be in your chain for you to need to obey that order. They can't order you away from a mission that your chain has sent down, but since this is a non-mission related order, and is instead just an order from someone who outranks you, you are still bound to abide by that order until otherwise confirmed. So instead, you would leave the beret OFF until confirmation from your commander.

I would expect a C/Capt to know this. I certainly did when I was a C/Capt.

All of my fellow berets I have worked with (except one out of 20) will do the same. 1 out of 20 will do what you keep explaining... He will say "but at beret they said I could so I'm not taking it off" and quite frankly I think that kid has a mental disability or something... so, 1 out of 20... if this is an accurate statistic, thats 5% of beret grads with that attitude.

I assume that you're not friends with a bunch of hats. But as someone who also attended NBB and has the blue beret, I suppose I'm not one of the "normal" graduates who chooses to disobey orders because of overinflated pride in a piece of felt.

But I don't blame you for this steriotype, and I don't think anyone really does. Because were all human and make the same mistakes. The negatives ALWAYS outweigh the posotives... its unfortunate but true. It works the same way with racism, or racist steriotypes. People see one person doing something wrong and they lable the other 99% of people as just as bad. Our CAP commanders always tell us to be on our best behavior in public because were representing CAP and the USAF. But what do they really mean:
'If we screw up and set a bad example, people will think all of CAP and all of th USAF are like that..." its just a simple fact of human nature.

So please reconsider your steriotype. 

Dude, you are the "steriotype". In fact, because I don't know you well, I am inclined to think that your entire post is a joke designed to emulate exactly the sort of arrogance that creates the stereotype.