Quote from: Jolt on October 25, 2007, 08:50:55 PM

Quote from: PA Guy on October 25, 2007, 07:06:25 PM

Quote from: Eclipse on October 25, 2007, 06:35:35 PM
And as you say, the cost is hard to justify when 9-1-1 is "free".

Calling 9-1-1 for the minor problems treated and or triaged by the RN would, I think, wear out your welcome really fast with the EMS community.

Not to mention the response time would get longer and longer with each call.

If you guys are running activities where the amount of EMS response needed is so high they are
getting annoyed with you, you need to look at the activity or the participants, not CAP medical regulations.

911 is for life and death emergencies, twisted ankles go to the ER.  In either case, a CAP "medic" is not needed.

Just want to mention that to dial 911 is free, but anything that responds is going to cost you, depending on the state and county codes.

Locally... (Central Illinois)
a 911 call resulting in a police car responding will cost $100- billed to the criminal if caught or the caller (if no felony crime was involved)

911 resulting in fire dept response: varies from $200 to $500 within my county.

911 resulting in EMS response:  $200 to $500

These are charges racked up, simply for the unit responding. Refusals are still billed Any medical supplies used to treat a wound, expended mace canisters, or time and supplies spent fighting a fire are all extra.

Senario: cadet has stomach pain, mom called, says its homesickness, dont take her. ... Encampment staff decide to call 911 and have her checked anyway.  ... Well the folks making the call whether CAP Inc, ABC Wing, or the Encampment Commander would get a Bill ranging from 200 to 500 dollars.
NOT Mom. All mom would have to say on the phone to the Ambulance EMT is: I did not authorize the response.  Then CAP or Joe Senior Member pays.


Granted 911 isnt necessarily for a tummyache or blister. But I couldnt let the "911 is free" comment pass.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on October 27, 2007, 05:20:31 AM
Just want to mention that to dial 911 is free, but anything that responds is going to cost you, depending on the state and county codes.

Locally... (Central Illinois)
a 911 call resulting in a police car responding will cost $100- billed to the criminal if caught or the caller (if no felony crime was involved)

911 resulting in fire dept response: varies from $200 to $500 within my county.

911 resulting in EMS response:  $200 to $500

These are charges racked up, simply for the unit responding. Refusals are still billed Any medical supplies used to treat a wound, expended mace canisters, or time and supplies spent fighting a fire are all extra.

Senario: cadet has stomach pain, mom called, says its homesickness, dont take her. ... Encampment staff decide to call 911 and have her checked anyway.  ... Well the folks making the call whether CAP Inc, ABC Wing, or the Encampment Commander would get a Bill ranging from 200 to 500 dollars.
NOT Mom. All mom would have to say on the phone to the Ambulance EMT is: I did not authorize the response.  Then CAP or Joe Senior Member pays.


Granted 911 isnt necessarily for a tummyache or blister. But I couldnt let the "911 is free" comment pass.

That's in Illinois, it's different in California just as it's different in New Jersey.

For example:
In California if you call 911 about the only thing you are billed for is the Ambulance and the ER.
The Cops and the Fire Department are tax payer supported.

About the only things most PD's in California bill for is false alarms from your burglar alarm.
And usually the first one is free.

Im sure this will really tweek some of you here, but enjoy.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on October 27, 2007, 05:20:31 AM
Just want to mention that to dial 911 is free, but anything that responds is going to cost you, depending on the state and county codes.

Locally... (Central Illinois)
a 911 call resulting in a police car responding will cost $100- billed to the criminal if caught or the caller (if no felony crime was involved)

911 resulting in fire dept response: varies from $200 to $500 within my county.

911 resulting in EMS response:  $200 to $500

These are charges racked up, simply for the unit responding. Refusals are still billed Any medical supplies used to treat a wound, expended mace canisters, or time and supplies spent fighting a fire are all extra.

Senario: cadet has stomach pain, mom called, says its homesickness, dont take her. ... Encampment staff decide to call 911 and have her checked anyway.  ... Well the folks making the call whether CAP Inc, ABC Wing, or the Encampment Commander would get a Bill ranging from 200 to 500 dollars.
NOT Mom. All mom would have to say on the phone to the Ambulance EMT is: I did not authorize the response.  Then CAP or Joe Senior Member pays.

Your experience with billing and EMS costs are not typical of the rest of the world, or even in Illinois - some back charge, some don't.

Obviously any ES response is not "free", however CAP as an entity is not liable for Ambulance or EMS charges incurred for its members - that is the responsibility of the members and covered by their health insurance.

A senior member who is lucid and coherent would take personal responsibility for their transport - if they want 911, great, if not, and decide to self transport, their call.  Adults have that right.

A senior member who is unconscious cannot make the call, and there should be no question.

A cadet,  in either circumstance, by the nature of their standing within CAP, does not have that right, regardless of their age.  At least within CAP, they are still considered "minors" in a lot of cases, and are subject to the discretion of their senior-member commanders, who, if they choose, can send them for medical care, via self-transport or 911, at the expense of their parents', or own, health insurance.

I will grant that external to CAP, most states recognize 18 as the legal age of adulthood, and in those cases we have less latitude to  bar a cadet from making their own decisions >legally<, however they would be subject to internal disciplinary action, including the possibility of termination, if they disobeyed the directives of their commanders.

Depending on their situation or attitude, they may not care, but that doesn't change things.

And please leave the larger issue of people without health insurance out of this.  Its not part of the discussion.

Sorry I think the document had a problem. Here it is again

Quote from: isuhawkeye on October 29, 2007, 01:06:35 AM
Sorry I think the document had a problem. Here it is again

Still has a problem.

Quote from: SAR-EMT1 on October 27, 2007, 05:20:31 AM
Just want to mention that to dial 911 is free, but anything that responds is going to cost you, depending on the state and county codes.

Yep around here the only thing that costs is if the call is fraudulent (prank call) or medical transport not provided by fire department (billed to insurance.)  Since police and fire are tax payer funded they are "obligated" to respond to calls for help "free of charge."

If you have any CAP Ranger Medics around in your wing, that shouldn't hurt. 

In terms of medical Control or authority a CAP " Ranger medic"  doesnt cut the mustard.

Though the NESA does have a First Responder class.

Quote from: MikeTA on February 24, 2008, 10:14:03 PM
If you have any CAP Ranger Medics around in your wing, that shouldn't hurt. 

hahahhahhahha blah hahahahhahhah blah blah hahahahhahaha   

Quote from: MikeTA on February 24, 2008, 10:14:03 PM
If you have any CAP Ranger Medics around in your wing, that shouldn't hurt. 

I second mikey's uncontrollable laughter at that statement.

Quote from: SJFedor on February 25, 2008, 01:42:37 AM

Quote from: MikeTA on February 24, 2008, 10:14:03 PM
If you have any CAP Ranger Medics around in your wing, that shouldn't hurt. 

I second mikey's uncontrollable laughter at that statement.

Thank you.  You Sir are a fine Officer! 

Quote from: mikeylikey on February 24, 2008, 11:21:17 PM

Quote from: MikeTA on February 24, 2008, 10:14:03 PM
If you have any CAP Ranger Medics around in your wing, that shouldn't hurt. 

hahahhahhahha blah hahahahhahhah blah blah hahahahhahaha   

Ok guys, you're reacting to the opinion of a cadet.  Be nice, but I'm glad I wasn't drinking anything while reading that remark;  I would have destroyed my computer with the expelled liquid.

I didn't say anything because I think he's being serious.

Having never been to Hawk Mountain, or worked with a Ranger Medic, I don't know what their skill level is. I do know someone who has been to the NESA program, and in my opinion the medical training leaves something to be desired...

Out of all seriousness, I apologize to the entire Ranger Program and Ranger Medic Program for putting such a well trained and good-hearted group of individuals into a bad light.

Cadet, there is no reason to apologize for your comments.  The Ranger program as well as it's medic program are fine;  for what they are intended.   It is not a training program for encampment medical staff nor are ranger "medics" trained for anything other than advanced first aid - CPR.  

I am of course biased as one of the people that trains Ranger Medics....but I would rather have them around than some of the other "cadet Medics" I see some encampments use.  Usually they come up with a "...you'd' be a good cadet medic because you are an EMT.." kind of theory  Which ends up with a bunch of guys with an ambulance on their backs running around waiting for the big one.
Emergency medical care is only one facet of the curriculum, no where in EMT class did I ever get into anything about injury/illness prevention or areas like monitoring good oral hydration or keeping tabs on basic foot care etc etc.

More importantly somewhere in the TAC officer training plan should be a bigger focus on health and medical issues.....not a blanket clause like "go find a medic"

mk

Quote from: sarmed1 on February 26, 2008, 05:01:39 AM
More importantly somewhere in the TAC officer training plan should be a bigger focus on health and medical issues.....not a blanket clause like "go find a medic"

No, there shouldn't.