Did we do something wrong?

[Гугл переводчик]

Since Idaho Wing is not holding an encampment this year, most squadrons in the wing have decided that Utah Wing encampment would be the one that squadrons would agree to go to, and in turn travel to together. The cadets that wanted to be staff applied well before the deadline, and all required forms were presented. Since we did not know how the required staff training would be administered to us, I decided to contact the cadet encampment commander on how this issue would be resolved. A week later with no response, I decided to contact the actual encampment commander, again with no response for a good week. I informed a senior member in my squadron about this, he emailed the encampment commander, and he didn't receive a response for a good amount of time. Once he did receive a response from the senior member Col, the tune of the email was "This is a UTAH wing encampment, and the priority will be for utah. We will try to get training for out of wing cadets, but this is not a multi-wing encampment. If out of state cadets wish to receive the training, they can travel down to utah for the training." That wasn't the exact wording, but that was the message.

Myself, and another cadet captain who has been to Cadet officer school and space command fam course, applied for high level positions (Deputy commander and XO). We were told we would have interviews for said positions and we were given dates. Once the date approached, i recieved an email 5 minutes before the time from the Cadet encampment commander saying he had to reschedule, and he would contact me ASAP, which he never did. The other C/Capt in my squadron was given a time and day, but they didnt inform him they couldn't make it. They just never contacted him about it. Once the positions were released, I received "Support Staff Team Leader" (whatever that is) and the other C/Capt received Flight Commander. The cadets who received the higher level positions were both C/2nd Lt's with only 1 ES qual each (IS100). Before the time of staff selections, multiple cadets from IDWG were trying to contact the Utah wing about encampment, with everyone getting ignored.

On top of all this, i had taken time off for work, and they decided to postpone the days of encampment without talking to any Idaho wing cadets about this at all. I just dont know what to do anymore.

[Ed Bos]

It doesn't sound like you did anything wrong. It sounds like you feel like the cadre for the Utah Wing Encampment aren't giving you a lot of support or direction. I recommend giving them the benefit of the doubt and falling back on the Core Values.

The Senior Members and Cadets at that encampment are in the same Civil Air Patrol you are, and deal with a lot of the same communication, logistics, and planning problems that we all face.

They are most likely making the best decisions they can with the information and resources they have. While you may not agree with their decisions, you can still attend an encampment, make great friends, and learn some new stuff.

Don't worry about other cadets' qualifications or grade, just do YOUR best with the position you're given, and everyone will be all the better for it.

[HGjunkie]

Just throwing it out there, it's not totally uncommon for lower-grade Cadets to be chosen for something higher over you. Just go with it and make the best of your position.

Also, I'd bet that UTWG is trying to give their own Cadets priority because of a couple factors: Maybe they only have one encampment a year, perhaps they can fill up all the positions with UTWG Cadets, etc. A counterexample would be FLWG, which has a solid mix of out of state Cadets and in-state Cadets (with about a 50% selection rate in total), but we have a TON of positions for people to pick up. Maybe they don't have so many positions due to having a smaller encampment size.

Although I will say that the communication issue is... well, an issue. Don't make a mess out of it, but reconsider if that's what you really want to do.

[ol'fido]

I also know from our encampment that most senior positions are not open to cadets who come in cold having never attended an IL encampment or having only attended one encampment several years before. This is because we have basically a "five year plan". Basically, once a cadet attends their first encampment as a trainee, they come back the next year to the advanced training unit. After that it is a progression up through flight, squadron, and exec staff positions. Normal attrition and outside activities will usually thin things out at the top so there are not ten people trying for one position. Our cadets understand this system and agree with it.

Other wings may do it differently and I know people have different opinions on how encampment attendance and staff positions should be slotted, but this system has worked for us for many years. While some may feel that a c/Capt or c/Maj should take priority over a c/2nd Lt, it just doesn't happen that often. The c/2ndLt may have worked their way through a system such as we have and be a very known quantity to the encampment's senior staff.

Having said that, however, there is no need to treat people who wish to apply to an activity in that fashion if such was the case. A simple phone call or letter explaining the application process and why you may be at a disadvantage would have been in order. People may not always be able to get what they want but there is no excuse for treating people shabbily or as if they were a bother.

[spazyjosh]

I am from utah wing and I actually know all these people mentioned from here personally. That said I do know that they all have the best intentions and I could vouch for most of them. Also with the staff positions im really not sure how thats going but I would expect they were trying to go with people that they knew so that the encampment could go more smoothly.

[Patterson]

...I would expect they were trying to go with people that they knew so that the encampment could go more smoothly.

Unfortunately, that is the excuse given to cover for nepotism and the creation of a "this club is for my friends only" mentality. 

Honestly, with the implementation of a huge change to ALL Encampments slatted to begin after 1 June 2014, most of the 2014 Encampments are in actuality "brand new" projects.

I feel Regions should be the hosting and organizing element of all Encampments in order to ensure proper standardization.

[Garibaldi]

I have to weigh in here.

There is a GOB network issue. They "know" the cadets from their wing, and not yours. Therefore they go with what they know.

Is it right? Yes and no. Yes in that they can exclude anyone from any wing they want, no in that it just ain't fair.

I can see their point. Cadets from Wing A are trained to Wing A's standards. Known quantity. Cadets from Wing B are trained to Wing B's standards. Do the two necessarily meet? No. I have seen disparity in ES training from wing to wing, using National's ES doctrine.

Wing A would not want to "train" wing B's cadets in that sort of environment. C/Capt Bag O'Donuts may have skated through the program, doing the bare minimum to get to his/her Earhart, while C/Capt. Highspeed took his/her time, studied hard, is an A student, outstanding cadet, and everything a cadet should be. C/Capt. Donuts is an unknown quantity to Wing A and might be a known issue in Wing B. The bad kind. Like I had to deal with. Another story for another time.

I'm not saying that is the case here. But it is a reality we face in inter-wing activities. You go with what you know. It even filters down to the Wing level in ES. ICs and MCs cherry pick their staff and there is no way to get in unless you are good friends with said IC or MC. You have to prove yourself constantly.

I'm sorry it is what it is, but that is the reality.

[Eclipse]

GOB to focus on the wing's own cadets?

No. That's prudent training.

UTWG is not tasked with training IDWG cadets. IDWG is
Take it up with the Wing CC why you're not having and encampment.

[NC Hokie]

Since Idaho Wing is not holding an encampment this year, most squadrons in the wing have decided that Utah Wing encampment would be the one that squadrons would agree to go to, and in turn travel to together.

I'd be very curious to know if the Utah Wing encampment leadership was consulted before your squadrons decided to apply en masse to staff and attend their encampment.

[Panache]

There is a GOB network issue. They "know" the cadets from their wing, and not yours. Therefore they go with what they know.

I wouldn't really call it a GOB problem.  UTWG probably feels that their priority should be to the own wing's cadets.  And that's an understandable perspective.

[a2capt]

Hey, don't feel bad. Could be worse. CAWG gets a a cadet encampment commander from COWG because they say there's no one else qualified..

Read: The CTG Clique didn't approve of anyone.. 

Works both ways.

[abdsp51]

I can see this both ways.  And honestly if the selection was upto me ES quals would be the last thing I'd look at if I even looked at them.

[PA Guy]

 Deleted. Sorry

[MSG Mac]

This seems to be a matter of  Idaho deciding that Utah was the preferred alternative for an encampment. There is nothing in the OP that suggested that there was any "Official" communication between the Wings.  IDWG abuts 5 other states besides Utah, has any consideration been given to sending cadets to any of these encampments? In addition the focus should be on the 1st time cadets, not those desiring to be staff officers.

[Garibaldi]

GOB to focus on the wing's own cadets?

No. That's prudent training.

UTWG is not tasked with training IDWG cadets. IDWG is
Take it up with the Wing CC why you're not having and encampment.

No, GOB as in cherry picking. I am saying it's a fact of CAP. You go with what you know. Good, bad, or ugly, it is what it is. Training and advancement are not across the board, even to national standards. No requirement that the wing even look at outside applicants. That is what I am saying. How is it you can agree with me and make it look like you're disagreeing? 

[Eclipse]

How is it you can agree with me and make it look like you're disagreeing? 

1/2-reading the messages while I haunt a job site in INWG!

[lordmonar]

GOB to focus on the wing's own cadets?

No. That's prudent training.

UTWG is not tasked with training IDWG cadets. IDWG is
Take it up with the Wing CC why you're not having and encampment.

Not often that I am in 100% agreement with Eclipse....but here it is.

I put on my program for my cadets at my level.   Anyone is free to do what I do.   But If I don't let your cadets play in my program.....how is that my fault?

[ol'fido]

OTOH, we have had a working relationship at our encampment with TX-802, the Sheldon Composite Squadron, since 2003. Their cadets regularly attend our encampment and they work their way up through the staff positions just like the IL cadets do. A couple of their seniors are also on the staff roster as well. My XO is a senior from Sheldon and we would have a hard time running the thing without her.

If the cadets are willing to put in the time and go through the program, there is no reason that cadets from another wing can't hold upper level cadet staff positions including the cadet commander's slot. I am not saying the we have never had to slot someone in to a staff position cold when a cadet couldn't make it at the last minute or there weren't enough applicants for that particular job to fill all the slots, but we prefer to use cadets we have trained to fill those jobs.

Someone mentioned that with the new curriculum that all of these programs will be new. Not necessarily. In reviewing the new program, we only had to make a few small scheduling adjustments and change some terminology in order to be in line with the new guidelines. Our "program" is otherwise essentially unchanged.

[PHall]

Hey, don't feel bad. Could be worse. CAWG gets a a cadet encampment commander from COWG because they say there's no one else qualified..

Read: The CTG Clique didn't approve of anyone.. 

Works both ways.

You failed to mention that said cadet is a California Wing cadet who currently attending the Air Force Academy.
He transferred his membership to Air Academy Cadet Squadron so he could continue to test and promote.

[PA Guy]

Hey, don't feel bad. Could be worse. CAWG gets a a cadet encampment commander from COWG because they say there's no one else qualified..

Read: The CTG Clique didn't approve of anyone.. 

Works both ways.

You failed to mention that said cadet is a California Wing cadet who currently attending the Air Force Academy.
He transferred his membership to Air Academy Cadet Squadron so he could continue to test and promote.

All of the applicants for CAWG Encampment Cadet Commander were highly qualified. However in the opinion of the selection board, composed of only seniors the cadet they selected was the most qualified of all the cadets that applied for that job.