College Squadrons

[38ffems]

Hi i am new to this forum but am looking for some help.  I am currently the VP of the University of Vermont Search and Rescue Club.  We basically have realized that logistically it is very difficult to get this club going.  We basically have so much that needs to be done before anything gets done that its getting to the point where we need to find another option.  A decent number of club members have expressed interest in joining the civil air patrol.  There are several squadrons in our area but we are wondering if perhaps we could get someone to help us and get a squadron together at the university.  Please be honest, I am not going to be offended if you think this is a stupid idea and if you think it would just make more sense to join one of the other squadrons.  Thanks - Zack

[arajca]

Your first step should be to visit at least one of the local units to check it out. Due to the administrative overhead of running a unit, you should consider forming a flight (not chartered flight, an internal flight) off an existing unit. Basically, you'd be members of the unit meeting in a different location. Also, visit a SAREX or two or Emergency Services training to get a feel for how SAR works in CAP. It is different than traditional SAR organizations.

I'd recommend having all the interested parties visit and, if you as a group decide it's worthwhile, select three or four to work with the unit to get started.

You can get more information on how to start a CAP unit from CAPP 4 - How to Start a Civil Air Patrol Unit. All of CAP's publications can be found here. The CAPR 60 series covers emergency services.

[Al Sayre]

I'll second the idea of an internal Flight.  My squadron has one in a separate city 50 miles from the main squadron and it is working well.  The Flight members are being slowly trained to navigate the paperwork morass that is required to run a squadron, and in the meantime, they get to participate in all Squadron and Wing activities. 

Too many new Squadrons and Chartered Flights fail because of a lack of understanding of the amount of admin that is required and the members get discouraged when someone hands them a box of forms and regs and says you're in charge of X.  The internal flight exposes them and allows them to learn the ropes at a more reasonable pace.  I will also say that it helps to have one or two people who have some type of military experience.  CAP and Military Regulations and Manuals do not work the same as most civilian Company Handbooks, and take a little getting used to for those not steeped in the military culture.

[BillB]

I started a Squadron formed of cadets and seniors from around Florida Wing attending the University of Florida. The biggest problem we had was time management, that is how many members could attend meetings due to exams, studying, football games etc. I think you'll find you would be better off being a Flight of an existing Squadron. That relievs you of most of the paperwork. The Squadron was mainly a training unit for cadets to continue through the cadet program.
As far as SAR training, one post mentioned CAP operates differently than many other SAR organizations. But I can see what you're aiming at, and it probably would work for the students to form SAR teams. But just because you're in CAP does not mean you can go charging off to the mountains to look for lost hunters. There is a system in place to request CAP assistance in searches. Even if yhe CAP members wanted to assist the local Sheriff, it takes a request to CAP at Maxwell AFB by the Sheriff to get your Flight called out.  It's a matter of insurance and liability. As a CAP member on an authorized search you're covered by federal insurance. So visit the local Squadron, talk to the Commander and outline your plan. He'll be able to tell you what training you need and all other information.

[RiverAux]

Although obviously I'm a CAP supporter (or I wouldn't be here), as Bill mentions there are some hurdles that have to be jumped before you can be called out.  You might also check with your county sheriff to see if they have anything appropriate already or would be interested in supporting a SAR team at the school.  There are advantages and disadvantages in going both ways.

[DNall]

Pros & cons to everything, that's right, but the truth is niether Law Enforcement or anyone else is going to use people off the street for serious work. They may well take volunteers to walk a line search under the supervision of a competent professional, but they won't trust you to actually be one of those competent professionals, and their lawyers will severly limit your participation when you & they are liable. The CAP umbrella give you access to lots of training & of course the liability coverage, but it comes with strings attached in the form of paperwork/admin & lots of rules to follow.

You should follow the above advise & check out what you're getting into, but I think CAP would be a good option for you, and such flights would be good for CAP as a way to recruit driven college students & retain them after they graduate.  Certainly a flight off a local Sq is the easiest route, and many units are formed that way. I'd see about recruiting a couple faculty/staff as advisors & get them involved w/ CAP as well (thier position as a professor gets them some extra rank coming in). Then you can run it much like any other student organization. Fraternities for instance take quite a lot of time, money, & effort, but their weekly meetings are much the same as normal CAP units & their additional activities & administrative loads are really more demanding than running a CAP unit. It'd be hard work, but not that bad. The one thing I'd advise different than a regular CAP unit is that as very busy students you will be spreading the work out over more people so you should look to have 25-30 active members as a target. I think it's a great idea though.

Where are you located? We might be able to refer you to some folks that can help?

[RiverAux]

Pros & cons to everything, that's right, but the truth is niether Law Enforcement or anyone else is going to use people off the street for serious work.

Where did that come from?  Many sheriff's departments have organized SAR teams or may be interested in starting one.  That is different than taking people in off the street.  As these folks already have some sort of organized club the sheriff would probably take them seriously. 

[DNall]

I think CAP is a better option. As a private club working w/ the SO, there are legal issues galore & that's not something I'd want to deal with myself. They may well put you on a mission after you sign/notorize a hold harmless statement. I wouldn't want to have to deal with teh hurrdles up front or if something went wrong. CAP gets around that quite neatly in exchange for the headaches of paperwork, and we provide a lot of free training they might otherwise be on the hook for.

[capchiro]

I would like to applaud your interest and the effort it took to get to this point.  The flight idea is the best for your group, less headaches, more fun.  Now, the beauty of this system, and I think it has been alluded to above, but maybe not blatantly enough, is when you join a squadron as a flight, you have your own small group to work with, however, you are suddenly a part of the local Wing and will be invited to any and all training offered in that Wing.  So, on one Saturday, you might drive to Squadron X for Radio Operators training and the next Saturday go to Squadron Y for UDF training, on and on ad nauseum.  While home in another state for Christmas or the summer, you can attend training there also.  Depending on your interest and schedule, you can find training available to you almost all of the time.  The Federal government and most states offer training to CAP personnel, along with almost any emergency response group.  The only thing that will slow your training opportunities is the amount of time you want to give.  Having in excess of 30 years in CAP, I would encourage you to start as soon as possible and always maintain your membership.  Remember, it all counts toward retirement (for whatever that is worth).  Good luck and I would be glad to work with you personally if you have any questions..

[38ffems]

The flight thing sounds like a much better idea.  I guess my goal would be to join up with the composite squadron at the Vermont Air National Guard Base as its the closest one.  I was in CAP for about 8 months when I was in high school but my ride quit and i didn't have a car back then so I was outta luck.  Also in Vermont the state police run all search and rescue stuff and they to be honest do a great job when its a crime related search but as far as just ground team searching they have many more jobs they do much better.  I think that joining CAP would be a good oppurtunity for individuals to get some military discipline without having to commit to ROTC.  We are already in the works getting a physical fitness program going so hell we could continue that in CAP and take it a little more seriously.  We have a great group of people who come from various backgrounds, I for instance worked as a deputy sheriff for 2 years after I got out of high school, I have been a Firefighter/EMT for almost 5.  Many of our members are EMT-basics and some are intermediates.  I am going to set up a club meeting and see what people think and if they agree I will go the route you guys suggested.  I REALLY REALLY APPRECIATE THE HELP! I can't believe the response I got so quickly, its all very helpful.

[38ffems]

Do you think that having CAP on campus will cause issues with the ROTC program on campus.  I can see maybe some issues but I wouldn't think this would cause to much harm since they are quite different in nature.  Our goal since the creation of the club is to become the most reliable, disciplined, and knowledgable team possible so I think the extra discipline from CAP will only enhance that goal.

[capchiro]

Again your efforts are to be applauded.  I would think that you may be able to work it so that you could recruit some of the ROTC people into joining your endeavor.  If you do, just make sure they don't go too gung ho military and keep it CAP oriented. 

[Pylon]

Do you think that having CAP on campus will cause issues with the ROTC program on campus.  I can see maybe some issues but I wouldn't think this would cause to much harm since they are quite different in nature.  Our goal since the creation of the club is to become the most reliable, disciplined, and knowledgable team possible so I think the extra discipline from CAP will only enhance that goal.

There is no inherent risk of issues with ROTC just by nature of starting a CAP unit.  However, that being said, I think it will depend on the professional bearing of your members and how you maintain relations with the ROTC unit.  If you have a bunch of people in CAP uniforms that act like they're better than ROTC or other organizations, you'll undoubtedly run into issues (not saying that you guys would).  Acting professional will go a long way to establishing good relationships with many organizations.

I think that you guys would be smart to establish relations early with ROTC.  Let them know you're forming a unit of Civil Air Patorl, let them know that you're primarily looking to learn and perform Search and Rescue in the area.  Let them know that you're not looking to recruit people away from ROTC, as both organizations have separate purposes, but certainly welcome any ROTC members who would be interested in additionally doing SAR to join.

Early relations, and clearly letting ROTC know that you're there to do SAR, and not just to "play pretend Air Force" will go a long way in helping establish smooth sailing for everyone on campus.  Heck, you might even get some high-speed recruits from ROTC.

[Al Sayre]

There is no inherent conflict in being a CAP Member and in ROTC, or any active duty military branch.  In fact, you'll probably find quite a few AD military members on the CAP roles, some are frequent posters here and on Cadet Stuff.  Also, if it's AFROTC, you may be able to use your "New Connections" to help get them their Orientation Flights and get some USAF re-imbursed flight time for your new Squadron.  A win-win for everyone.

[38ffems]

Unfortunately its not AFROTC, haha I would probably be in it to help me out after school.  I am friends with some of the people in ROTC so I will talk to them intially and see how they feel.  To be honest though whether or not they like CAP on campus doesn't really mean a whole hell of a lot.  I think both groups will have their places and hopefully can play off each other.  Now another thing that I will probably have to bring up to the Squadron level leadership would be the fact that as of right now we have a budget.  I dont know if we could use the schools budget to maintain our flights equipment or to make purchases or if everything has to be done through CAP in some sort of beaurocratic fashion.  And I am also not sure if all of the money will carry over when we redesignate the club.  I mean if CAP requires you to purchase your own uniforms and gear than I would think that they should have no problem with us using school money to buy the same stuff.

[Al Sayre]

I know another SQ/CC that had CAP designated as a student organization by his local college.  When you actually start things rolling, PM me and I'll put you in touch.  You will have to be careful mingling money, and then there is the whole "Wing Banker" thing on the horizon.

[RiverAux]

As a private club working w/ the SO, there are legal issues galore & that's not something I'd want to deal with myself.

You misunderstood.  Some sheriffs departments have and support their own volunteer SAR teams.  That is what I was suggesting as an alternative. 

[38ffems]

Ok I am having a meeting next week with everyone and will be discussing how and if we are going to do it.  And Riveraux as far as sheriff teams go, they dont exist in vermont.  I guess we are fairly unique as far as that goes some of our members are on search teams back home and the commander is usually a sheriffs deputy or the sheriff.  When I was a deputy we helped with searches but mostly with door to door stuff and like driving the roads to look for people.  State Police run the show here.

[RiverAux]

Roger. 

[Becks]

Ok I am having a meeting next week with everyone and will be discussing how and if we are going to do it.  And Riveraux as far as sheriff teams go, they dont exist in vermont.  I guess we are fairly unique as far as that goes some of our members are on search teams back home and the commander is usually a sheriffs deputy or the sheriff.  When I was a deputy we helped with searches but mostly with door to door stuff and like driving the roads to look for people.  State Police run the show here.

Keep us posted on how the meeting goes and how we can help you from there on out., if you have anymore questions dont hesitate to ask.