Tactical Plate Carrier For ES

[lordmonar]

The kish around their necks? Do not agree. Is like carrying a bandana for a handkerchief.

That goofy scarf was specifically purchased to look like an "operator in the sandbox"  it likely came from their airsoft or paintball toys,
and if the GTL had a lick of sense, it would have been left in the car / pack.

Okay.....Why?   

I can think of several good uses for a scarf in my AOR...everything from keeping warm, keeping off the bugs, keeping out the sun, keeping out the rain, keeping out the sand, keeping out the wing, back up sling, tourniquet, back up cravat, handy quicker picker upper, the list goes on.

Other then "looking cool"....what is wrong with the Kish?

[Eclipse]

Other then "looking cool"....what is wrong with the Kish?

It sets the completely wrong image - like a boonie on the blue field uniform, if you need it, wear it the field and
stow it in the ICP.

[lordmonar]

2. Tak-ti-kewl gear that serves no useful purpose, such as plate carriers, really have no place in ES operations. I've always told my cadets "If you can demonstrate it's use and utility over what I am wearing, you can use it." It's gone the next time we go out, in most cases. I still have my LBE from the 80s.

How about "it was free...my dad gave it to me".

How about....it's what I already got.

Sure the Alice LBE system is great.....but....and here's the real kicker...back in the day the only reason why we used it.....was.....wait for it........because it was tak-ti-kewl! 

I usually tell new GT members (Cadets or otherwise) to just throw everything into their school back pack.   A new GT person should not be going out and buying a bunch of gear.

Once they are in the GT community.....meet and look at everyone else's set up and choose what works for you.

4. Compliance with CAPM 39-1 is mandatory for all members participating in ES missions. Boonie hats, scarves, whatever they are called, are not to be worn. Period.

Got to call the BS on this one to a point.   Any deviations from the regulations must have a legitimate and practical purpose to the ES mission.   Generally speaking you are correct Boonies are a no-no....but a scarf.....I can see a lot of good uses for a good scarf in the field.   I also hold out for deviations from 39-1 when it comes to wet weather, and cold weather.   But that is just me.   

And now this is where Eclipse blows a gasket and goes off on me.

[lordmonar]

Other then "looking cool"....what is wrong with the Kish?

It sets the completely wrong image - like a boonie on the blue field uniform, if you need it, wear it the field and
stow it in the ICP.

So.....it is just about the image.    I thought you were against things being just about image.

We can argue about this all day long......on this side of the line it is okay to wear XYZ but on this side it is not.    Do you have a useful definition of "in the field"?   Where does "in" the field become "out" of the field?

[Eclipse]

And now this is where Eclipse blows a gasket and goes off on me.

Actually, this is where eclipse decides he really no longer has a poop to give.

More mental machinations to justify the silly actions of a member looking to puff himself up a bit and look "cool".

People aren't interested in the details, no reg is too small to ignore, but that;s OK because the big stuff is being ignored, too,
in favor of pet projects and whatever is shiny this week.

[jeders]

And now this is where Eclipse blows a gasket and goes off on me.

And the rest of us sit back and enjoy some nachos while we watch the fireworks.

[Eclipse]

I would kill for a nacho hat...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CWK5Tzss8Q#

[Storm Chaser]

What about a nacho plate carrier? And after we're done eating nachos, we can use a shemagh to wipe our faces. Yummy!

[Eclipse]

What about a nacho plate carrier? And after we're done eating nachos, we can use a shemagh to wipe our faces. Yummy!

Now THAT is officer thinking...

[Garibaldi]

2. Tak-ti-kewl gear that serves no useful purpose, such as plate carriers, really have no place in ES operations. I've always told my cadets "If you can demonstrate it's use and utility over what I am wearing, you can use it." It's gone the next time we go out, in most cases. I still have my LBE from the 80s.

How about "it was free...my dad gave it to me".

How about....it's what I already got.

Sure the Alice LBE system is great.....but....and here's the real kicker...back in the day the only reason why we used it.....was.....wait for it........because it was tak-ti-kewl! 

And this is where I call BS. It had utility. It meshed well with our OG jungle fatigues AND our standard pickle suit. We didn't have all these MOLLE and such, or all these commercial products. We had what the Air Force DRMO gave us, and in most cases, surplus ALICE packs were a dime a dozen. It was sanctioned (in most cases, at least tolerated) by Wing.

If we wanted tak-ti-kewl we sewed RANGER and AIRBORNE tabs on our flight jackets, carried around our bottle rockets in ammo boxes, used camo face paint on FTXs, ladder-laced our boots, and carried boot knives on our jungle boots. THAT was tak-ti-kewl. 

[lordmonar]

2. Tak-ti-kewl gear that serves no useful purpose, such as plate carriers, really have no place in ES operations. I've always told my cadets "If you can demonstrate it's use and utility over what I am wearing, you can use it." It's gone the next time we go out, in most cases. I still have my LBE from the 80s.

How about "it was free...my dad gave it to me".

How about....it's what I already got.

Sure the Alice LBE system is great.....but....and here's the real kicker...back in the day the only reason why we used it.....was.....wait for it........because it was tak-ti-kewl! 

And this is where I call BS. It had utility. It meshed well with our OG jungle fatigues AND our standard pickle suit. We didn't have all these MOLLE and such, or all these commercial products. We had what the Air Force DRMO gave us, and in most cases, surplus ALICE packs were a dime a dozen. It was sanctioned (in most cases, at least tolerated) by Wing.

If we wanted tak-ti-kewl we sewed RANGER and AIRBORNE tabs on our flight jackets, carried around our bottle rockets in ammo boxes, used camo face paint on FTXs, ladder-laced our boots, and carried boot knives on our jungle boots. THAT was tak-ti-kewl. 

That too.

But my point is....if the tactical gear works......I don't care what it looks like.  Unless we go back to the days where the load out was actually spelled out in the GT manual...or at least it was in ARWG back in '85.....I'm not going to get bent out of shape because a cadet or senior member has got $400 of MOLLE in MULTICAM.....or they got a Hello Kitty Back Pack with all their gear.  If it works...it works.   

If they start sporting Kevlar or SAPI plates.....I may make a suggestion that the weight is not worth the cool....but that is it.

[Chaplaindon]

As a former Ground Team Leader, Paramedic & Flight Paramedic, & Squadron CC (and DCFC/DCFS), I can see no practical rationale for most of the tacti-kewl (great moniker) "stuff" I see carried/worn by some GTMs or GTM "wannabees." In fact 99.9% of all GT call-outs during my 23 years in CAP were more UDF than "Desert Storm." And, for the record, we had one of the top GTs in TXWG/SWR (including SAR dogs, etc.).

Being in Texas, and its notorious heat & humidity, ORM demands proper attire for both mission and environment ... added bulk, weight, (etc.) for the sake of looking/feeling trendy is simply unprofessional. I wouldn't let someone go into the field in (cf:) high-heel shoes and I wouldn't allow faux body armor (or a camo "bridal veil") ... if you have to wear such, find another team. Likewise I didn't allow Rambo survival knives or machetes -routinely- (the latter ONLY if needed and used by SMs).

It's a lot like in EMS, the rookies and wannabees with the portable O.R. on their belt and every patch on their shirt (and light on their auto) ... phonies. We called them "woo-woo's."

Simply put: leave the toys and halloween costumes in the closet, grow up or go play elsewhere.

SAR is serious business for trained -mature- professionals.

[Panzerbjorn]

Personally, I don't use a plate carrier for ES work.  I think we can all agree on the fact that it's overkill.  I also don't wear anything or take anything out to the field with me for the purpose of looking tacticool.  If I'm carrying it or wearing it, it has a practical use.  I'm too old and pudgy to be carrying extra crap on me up and down the hills all day long just to look cool.  I'm cool enough on my own.

It really is a shame that a shemagh has the commando stigmata to it as it really is a very useful piece of gear.  I sweat, and it's a wonderful towel to mop my forehead.  There really are reasons that the military and commandos wear and use them, and it's not because they're tacticool.  So, I carry one with me, usually folded up in a pouch to be used as a towel.  If it's cold out, it gets worn as a scarf. 

As far as machetes go....I was on a ground team training weekend not long ago, and the cadets thought it would be much more fun and adventurous to trailblaze our way from Point A to Point B along a creek instead of along the road that I pointed out that would be more practical.  The cadets learned that day that raspberry and blackberry bushes grow really really well beside a body of water.  And we pushed our way though approximately two miles of raspberry bushes.  I put up with the cadets learning that lesson on their own, but guess what I bought at REI as soon as I got back?  Am I going to carry it with me on every sortie? Heck, no.  Would I feel comfortable with cadets carrying them? Not in general, but on a case by case basis with those who understand it's a tool, not a tacticool.  Even then, I'll think about it twice then three times envisioning the Form 78 paperwork.

I just want the attitude of practicality instilled in the cadets.  Carry and wear what's practical while at the same time understand that John Q Public doesn't understand us in general and thinks we're training killer ninjas because we wear camoflauge.