Tactical Plate Carrier For ES

[CAPcadet4477]

Anyone know a good plate carrier for ES ops? Me and ground team would like to know

[Eclipse]

Another troll.

Find a better hobby.

[CAPcadet4477]

No dude I am curious I have seen alot of people use web gear but I want to see some setups for plate carriers

[abdsp51]

Cadet a couple of things:

1) Search is useful for these things, this has been addressed before.

2)  Eclipse is a SM and therefore the use of "dude" to address him is inappropriate.

Why do you want to use a plate carrier they serve no real purpose outside of holding/wearing SAPI plates and are not well suited for ES.  Stick to web gear or a decent vest. 

And FYI you are coming off as wanting to look tactikewl more than anything. 

[NIN]

OTOH, there are other, similar devices that can serve a similar function without being a plate carrier.

Example:
http://i861.photobucket.com/albums/ab171/sapper-77/IMG_4118.jpg

Thats the so-called "Ranger Rack"-style of tactical gear.  More of a "chest rig" than a true plate carrier.

I own one of these (note: did not wear it for CAP purposes) and I found it to be a LOT more functional (for the purposes that we would use it for) than old-school LBE, especially since I'm not a big fan of vests.

Easy to rig and put on. Easy to take off.  Easy to reconfigure.  Allows for backpacks/camelbaks, almost no coverage on the back for heat & comfort, in and out of vehicles, etc.  Lots of functionality for personal preference of pouches. (example: I have NO mag pouches, since mine was never used in a tactical fashion)

There is a fine line between "tacti-kewl" and "function-kewl"... I think everybody has a slightly different pen when they draw their version of the line.

And with the choices today, well, LBE just stinks.

[Panzerbjorn]

I'll actually answer the question on the off-chance that this isn't a trolling post.

Plate carriers are functional with modification for ES.  The modifications usually include taking a seam ripper and removing the pockets for the plates to make the rig more breathable and trap less heat.  They also usually come with closed cell foam inserts to keep the material stiff.  Remove the foam inserts too.

Plate carriers really have the same advantages of a vest, lots of MOLLE real estate to attach pouches.  That's their advantage for use in ES.  Pretty much everything else is a disadvantage.  They are heavy, particularly after you've attached every pouch you desire and load it up.  When mine is loaded up, it's typically around 30 pounds, and no, I don't use it for ES.  It's not a very practical piece of kit for ES work.

They are hot in the warmer months.  No matter what you do to modify them, they just plain trap heat.  But there is usually an integrated hydration pouch in the back of them, so at least you're not having to carry something separate for your water.

Unlike web gear or vests that have permanently attached pockets, plate carriers give you the flexibility to be modular in pouches to carry the equipment you need out in the field.  But what this also does, particularly to a new user, is load up the carrier with every conceivable pouch on the market.  Then you just end up overloading yourself.

Finally, wearing a plate carrier really does give off the commando stigma.  It doesn't bother me personally if someone wants to wear one for ES out in the field, but we've seen here plenty of those who have downright vehemence for it.  We've also seen how the cadet commando look can disturb a public filled with people who think cadets are planning the next Columbine.  So, for public perception, it's not really the best way to go.

What I personally did was order a flourescent orange MOLLE vest from dutyapparel.com along with several pouches.  It'll be here within the next couple days, so I haven't actually seen it in person yet, and I'm not going to steer you that way until I get mine and try it out in the field first. But the theory is sound.  You have the MOLLE real estate that I want to attach actual ES pouches to without the commando look.  But with the vest and pouches, you're still looking at dropping close to $200.

You don't need Blackhawk brand equipment for what we do.  If you're hellbent on getting a plate carrier, one made by Condor or FoxOutdoor will do you just fine.  They price right around $50 to $70 and the Condor ones at least have hydration pouches on the back.

All that being said, I would still try and steer you away from using a plate carrier for what we do.  It's just plain overkill.

[sarmed1]

Id say if you have one use it....free is always a good option.  The downside is the plate pockets.  The dont support well without a rigid plate in them.  Non armor tactical vests or straight up chest rigs ate the way to go if that's your thing.
I have found for what most CAP GT's do a compact chest rig with a sturdy day pack works best.

MK

[LATORRECA]

   A plate carrier has no other use than what is for. I wear sapi plate carriers to work and at the end of the day the only thing on my head, is to take that thing of me. A good pistol belt or chest rig works good for ES.
  It looks cool but that's it.

[Brit_in_CAP]

<<Snipped>>

Finally, wearing a plate carrier really does give off the commando stigma.  It doesn't bother me personally if someone wants to wear one for ES out in the field, but we've seen here plenty of those who have downright vehemence for it.  We've also seen how the cadet commando look can disturb a public filled with people who think cadets are planning the next Columbine.  So, for public perception, it's not really the best way to go.

Edited solely to show the one comment.  There's another post on here somewhere that shows what can happen.  VAWG responded to a balloon crash; there were photos of cadets who were clearly not dressed per 39-1 at the very least.  If you read the press article and then the public comments, many of them related to this very point.   

Article: http://news.yahoo.com/balloon-crash-looms-over-u-richmond-graduation-043203809.html

Thread: http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18857.msg344402;topicseen#new

[LATORRECA]

    I agree this shows no discipline from any of does members. Chest rigs, leg mag pouches, boonie covers and all kinds of stuff not authorized. Come one we look like a bunch of amateur. Like I said the plate carriers and the chest rigs has no business on what we do.
    Cool look club. If they want that, they could join the cadet army corps or young Marines.

[LATORRECA]

Senior members expectation of a ground team:



Cadets interpretation of them going on a ground search and rescue.

[Luis R. Ramos]

This comment is specifically for Latorreca and others that complain about what cadets want to carry to the field for their missions.

I have been in CAP for at least 15 years, and at no time there has been any mandate prohibiting anyone in Emergency Services from using military packs, carriers, etc in the field. At no time!

I say again, at no time!!!

During most of this time I used ALICE small packs and ammo pouches where I changed the purpose of it. A smart person adapts to the circumstances. Now I use a medium ALICE pack.

If you think this prevents the presentation of a professional image, then ask that it be included as part of the regulations a message like "no military packs or carriers will be worn."

[LATORRECA]

This comment is specifically for Latorreca and others that complain about what cadets want to carry to the field for their missions.

I have been in CAP for at least 15 years, and at no time there has been any mandate prohibiting anyone in Emergency Services from using military packs, carriers, etc in the field. At no time!

I say again, at no time!!!

During most of this time I used ALICE small packs and ammo pouches where I changed the purpose of it. A smart person adapts to the circumstances. Now I use a medium ALICE pack.

If you think this prevents the presentation of a professional image, then ask that it be included as part of the regulations a message like "no military packs or carriers will be worn."

   I'm not in any disagreement on cadets using military gear but in true reality, it can become a liability. Making that young cadet heavier or hotter than necessary.  I use a pistol belt with buttpack and a medium Alice pack.  I do have all kinds of military gear due to my occupation and I don't use it. However, I teach my cadets the proper utilization of gear and mission analysis to know what to take and have for that specific mission..
   By the way the Bonnie cover is not authorized or the kish around their necks. According to CAPR 39-1.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Agree the bonnie cover is not authorized. The kish around their necks? Do not agree. Is like carrying a bandana for a handkerchief. In a hot day you as a team member may have to put one around your neck... But it is the Ground Team Leader that sets the tone.

If he thinks the team does not present a professional image and are using incorrect things, he should say "not in my watch."

As to this topic? I have never been in the need for the plate carrier, so I will let those which have used them in the field be the ones talking about their use in CAP to carry other stuff...

[NIN]

This comment is specifically for Latorreca and others that complain about what cadets want to carry to the field for their missions.

I have been in CAP for at least 15 years, and at no time there has been any mandate prohibiting anyone in Emergency Services from using military packs, carriers, etc in the field. At no time!

I say again, at no time!!!

During most of this time I used ALICE small packs and ammo pouches where I changed the purpose of it. A smart person adapts to the circumstances. Now I use a medium ALICE pack.

If you think this prevents the presentation of a professional image, then ask that it be included as part of the regulations a message like "no military packs or carriers will be worn."

Uh, dude, there is a difference between a military pack, military load carrying equipment, and the things we're discussing here: plate carriers, which are essentially the outer component of body armor.

Nobody said "Don't use/wear a military pack! You're not military!!" or "Why wear a pistol belt, you're not carrying a pistol?" or "Ammo pouches? You're not carrying ammo!"  A pistol belt, for example, is used as part of LBE, holds your ammo pouches (which get used for snacks, flashlights, small gear, not ammo), canteens, etc.

But a plate carrier is a device designed to carry armor plates (soft or hard) for protective purposes.

It has basically no more effective use in ES than k-pot helmet would: nobody needs ballistic protection in the field.   Sure you can throw a bunch of MOLLE stuff on it, but without the plates in it, there is very little stiffening.  You can do the same with a chest rig or some of the vests. (IOW, if you are carrying around a plate carrier, with all your ES gear, and you have to stick plates in it to make it hold things in the right way, you're doing the wrong thing)

Plate Carrier:

Note the front & back coverage. This is designed to carry armor plates to protect your torso from small arms fire, and to hang MOLLE stuff on (because otherwise you'd have to wear a plate carrier AND a chest rig).

Chest rig or Rack:

No provisions to hold armor plates.  Only gear (pouches, etc). Not full-back thing either (you don't need to wear a full-back deal for ES, really, anyway. I cringe just thinking about how hot a full front-and-back plate-carrier style get up would be, especially since you don't have any need to have anything on your back if you're not wearing armor and who wants MOLLE pouches on their back?)

Again, not saying "don't use military gear."  More saying "use the right military gear"  I used to own a steel pot helmet and a flak jacket, doesn't mean they were anywhere appropriate for CAP field use, and in fact, they were not.

[Eclipse]

The kish around their necks? Do not agree. Is like carrying a bandana for a handkerchief.

That goofy scarf was specifically purchased to look like an "operator in the sandbox"  it likely came from their airsoft or paintball toys,
and if the GTL had a lick of sense, it would have been left in the car / pack.

[jeders]

I have been in CAP for at least 15 years, and at no time there has been any mandate prohibiting anyone in Emergency Services from using military packs, carriers, etc in the field.

There's also no mandate prohibiting me from using a '63 Corvette as my search vehicle; but common sense dictates that I should use something more suited for the environment, like a 4-wheel drive vehicle. The same goes for certain military gear. Plate carriers have no place in ground search and rescue because they are not well suited to our needs. ALICE gear, pistol belt with suspenders, load bearing vest (something like this preferably) are all examples of military and military style equipment that is well suited to CAP SAR needs.

Edit: NIN beat me to it.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Uh, dude, re-read the message I answered.

He did say something against using ammo pouches.

Re-read my second answer to him. I did understand the thread was about plate carriers, and I do know what a plate carrier is.

Uh, dude, I thought you were able to read and understand messages but after your response to mine now I have my doubts...

[Luis R. Ramos]

From Jeders:

There's also no mandate prohibiting me from using a '63 Corvette as my search vehicle; but common sense dictates that I should use something more suited for the environment...

I will say that in the environment shown the Corvette is not suited. However in a large city when you know the streets and your objective is in a marina where there are lots of short, small streets, it is!

From Jeders:

The same goes for certain military gear....  ALICE gear, pistol belt with suspenders, load bearing vest (something like this preferably) are all examples of military and military style equipment that is well suited to CAP SAR needs.

Re-read Latorreca's post. He lumped all military gear as having no place in ES. I answered this post!

[Storm Chaser]

Uh, dude, re-read the message I answered.

He did say something against using ammo pouches.

Re-read my second answer to him. I did understand the thread was about plate carriers, and I do know what a plate carrier is.

Uh, dude, I thought you were able to read and understand messages but after your response to mine now I have my doubts...

Capt Ramos, Latorreca expressed an opinion based on his experience. You certainly have the right to express yours, but there was no reason to "yell" in your post. There's also no need to call CAP officers "dude".