Night Vision.

[cap235629]

Are any of the high-speed SAR teams that go on-rope to get out of their Hummers using NVGs for ground SAR?

There are useful aerial applications for thermal imaging, but I'm a little skeptical about their use for ground SAR.

In our AO, we have trained with them extensively in heavy brush to look for children or ALZ patients who may have laid down.  A body JUMPS out of the heat signature of hedges, brushpiles and vegetation.

[cap235629]

I was wondering if they were deployed. Bill were your guys over in Leflore Co or did OK Wing handle the search exclusively?

Arkansas Wing has 2 handheld Thermal Imaging cameras that we use airborne, mobile and on the ground.  We even developed a scanner training outline for airborne use through the photo window.  This capability was used most recently on Monday the 20th in a night time search for a downed aircraft in Madison County Arkansas......

We were put on standby to augment OK wing as we are only 30 miles from the search area

[Eclipse]

Are we discussing NVGs or thermal equipment?

[cap235629]

the OP mentioned both

[Eclipse]

Ah, Bach!

[cap235629]

Are any of the high-speed SAR teams that go on-rope to get out of their Hummers using NVGs for ground SAR?

There are useful aerial applications for thermal imaging, but I'm a little skeptical about their use for ground SAR.

In our AO, we have trained with them extensively in heavy brush to look for children or ALZ patients who may have laid down.  A body JUMPS out of the heat signature of hedges, brushpiles and vegetation.

Plus our cadets absolutely LOVE watching the A-10's at FSM taking off at night with them.  Who knew an A-10 had afterburners!!!!! LOL

[Luis R. Ramos]

A-10s have afterburners?!



Flyer

[SarDragon]

They might spit a little fire out the back at full mil power, but no ABs.

[Eclipse]

LaterBlades!  Duh! Wrong airplane!

[cap235629]

A-10s have afterburners?!



Flyer

No they don't.  I was alluding to the thermal image of an A-10 taking off.  Through a thermal imager the hot exhaust looks like an afterburner and the cadets think it's cool.....

[PHall]

A-10s have afterburners?!



Flyer

No they don't.  I was alluding to the thermal image of an A-10 taking off.  Through a thermal imager the hot exhaust looks like an afterburner and the cadets think it's cool.....

The TF-34 is a high bypass turbofan engine. As of right now, there are NO high bypass turbofan engines that are equipped with an afterburner.
A afterburner would only work for the core of the engine, which in the TF-34's case only provides 20% of the thrust anyway.

[Luis R. Ramos]

That is what I knew, an afterburner for an A-10 was a technological impossibility. Thanks for the two answers.

Flyer

[NIN]

A Chinook doesn't have afterburners either, and under goggles (even NVGs, not thermals) the hot exhaust looks pretty crazy.

Night Vision CH-47F Chinooks Sling Load: Task Force Corsair

(ffwd to about the 2 minute mark if you're the impatient sort, as the aircraft flies away)

[Garibaldi]

Aren't the engines on an A-10 the same basic design as the ones used on cargo transports? *admitted ignorance*

[PHall]

Aren't the engines on an A-10 the same basic design as the ones used on cargo transports? *admitted ignorance*

Same "basic" design, i.e. High-bypass Turbofan engine, just smaller. The TF-34 used on the A-10 is also used on the S-3 Viking.
It's bigger version, the GE CF-6 Family of engines is used on 747's and DC-10's and many other airliners.

[SarDragon]

That is what I knew, an afterburner for an A-10 was a technological impossibility. Thanks for the two answers.

Flyer

Not exactly true. Turbofan engines have had afterburners. The F-14 engines (TF-30, and later F110-GE-400) are a prime example. However, they are low-bypass, and benefit much more from the added thrust than would the high-bypass A-10 engine (TF34-GE-100A).

Possible - yes; practical - no.

[PHall]

That is what I knew, an afterburner for an A-10 was a technological impossibility. Thanks for the two answers.

Flyer

Not exactly true. Turbofan engines have had afterburners. The F-14 engines (TF-30, and later F110-GE-400) are a prime example. However, they are low-bypass, and benefit much more from the added thrust than would the high-bypass A-10 engine (TF34-GE-100A).

Possible - yes; practical - no.

Low bypass turbofan engines have had afterburners, high bypass have not because it's just not practical.

There is a BIG difference!!!

Low bypass turbofans: Pratt & Whitney TF-33, F-100, GE F-404, F-118,

High bypass turbofans: GE CFM-56, CF-6, Pratt & Whitney JT-7, TF-39,

Low bypass turbofans get 20% of their thrust from the fan and 80% from the core.
High bypass turbofans get 80% of their thrust from the fan and 20% from the core.

High bypass turbofans usually have much lower noise signatures and much better fuel economy then a low bypass turbofan of the same thrust.
But they're not usually practical for use in fighter type aircraft due to their size.

[Spaceman3750]

So I did a little bit of digging out of curiosity... The last image in the photo lineup (assuming that the marketing folks didn't screw with it too much) makes a pretty compelling case for FLIR, but not for NVGs.

http://www.basspro.com/FLIR-Scout-PS24-Thermal-Handheld-Camera/product/10230040/#chart-container

[cap235629]

The red is does not appear in an IR image.  That was added by someone....

[RiverAux]

Are any of the high-speed SAR teams that go on-rope to get out of their Hummers using NVGs for ground SAR?

There are useful aerial applications for thermal imaging, but I'm a little skeptical about their use for ground SAR.

In our AO, we have trained with them extensively in heavy brush to look for children or ALZ patients who may have laid down.  A body JUMPS out of the heat signature of hedges, brushpiles and vegetation.

How big an area were you trying to search with these on the ground?