Firearms on Ground team

[AirDX]

Yes of course you will hear people say they killed a bear with a .30-06 or a .22 rifle (yes I have heard that).

I have too:

This is a story of self control and marksmanship.  A woman survived a grizzly bear attack with one well placed shot from her itsy bitsy .25 caliber Beretta Jetfire.                     

These are her own words.:

While out hiking in Alberta Canada with my boyfriend, we were surprised when a huge grizzly bear came charging at us out of nowhere.  She must have been protecting her cubs because she was extremely aggressive.  If I had not had my little Beretta Jetfire I would not be here today!  I yanked it out of my purse and fired one shot.  It hit my boyfriend in his kneecap and the bear caught him easily. While the grizzly mauled the poor cripple, I was able to escape by just walking away at a brisk pace.  I love that pistol.  I'll find other boyfriends.

[LSThiker]

I have too:

This is a story of self control and marksmanship.  A woman survived a grizzly bear attack with one well placed shot from her itsy bitsy .25 caliber Beretta Jetfire.                     

I have not heard that one yet.  I will have to use that next time I hear someone.

[Mitchell 1969]

"(1) A member may carry firearms on his/her person when required to do so by law
provided he/she has a written statement of proof of such requirement signed by the wing
commander."

The nuance being "required" vs "allowed".

I've personally noticed a trend in that people who have to carry a firearm on-duty are much
less excited about carrying one off-duty.

They also seem much more clear on the term "concealed" in the context of carry.

The wording in the the reg leaves much to be desired. I'm not aware of any LAW that requires LEOs to be armed (but, I don't know the laws of every state, county). There are plenty of laws that ALLOW it, with departmental POLICIES that may require it.

When I was an active LEO I carried all the time in CAP. Few people knew it, nobody saw it.

[Flying Pig]

For the many times I did overnighters on a CAP activity, I carried "off-duty".   I know we've had this discussion before.....  Ive never found anything, nationwide where any state or federal law requires an LEO to be armed 24/7 off duty.  I did carry in uniform at CAP meetings because our building was in the middle of the HOOD.  Literally sandwiched between county mental health and the social services office in the middle of downtown Fresno.  We never had any issues during all the years I was there but often times being one of the last to leave, dealing with cadets waiting for parents outside, etc.  Being a deputy, I wasn't about to get caught unarmed locking up the building at 2230hrs unarmed in the city I was a cop in, in addition to it being a national guard armory where every stupid gangster in town thought the army stored weapons.    Ive seen agency policies that highly recommend it, or even suggest that you could be disciplined if you are unable to act off-duty if something were to happen but Ive never seen a state or federal law that listed a specific agency by name as being required to be armed 24/7.  Ive known a Secret Service Agent assigned to the VP who wasn't even required to be armed off-duty. 

I weighed the decisions and decided it was the thing to do.  The several times I attended a CAP activity where travel was involved and a hotel stay, I of course carried off duty, but not during the CAP activity itself.

[Devil Doc]

The AKWG provision went along the lines "....carried in survival gear when required by law...." or some variation there of.
Personally I am ok with the theory abstractly;  however the practical application ( ie what real humans do is never quite so
black and white)
For every 5 members with a conservative firearm stored concealed or otherwise stowed securely in their gear will be 1 with a desert eagle or taurus judge in a drop leg holster with 100000000 cp tac light laser combo and holographic sight....and that's the guy that will be right in front of the camera showing it off to buba.....and pops one thru the vans door....

MK

Theres nothing wrong with my BlackHawk Drop Holster and my Med Pack Drop holster, that Taurus 9mm with a Silence and Scope and red dot sights, its perfectly normal to carry with you on a GT mission.

Besdies that,

I always follow Rule 9, Always carry an Knife, Yes even in "Government" buildings

[sarmed1]

I don't need the drop leg ' cause I have ak krinkov on a sling attached to tacti-kewl vest 'cause its legally a pistol too.

MK

[Flying Pig]

I just carry mine shoved in my waist band with the safety off.

[GroundHawg]

I guess it more of a federal policy issue than a CAP issue. The problem I have had carrying while on CAP time are that my last two squadrons have met on a Federal facility. One was a National Guard building, and had no problems getting clearance. My current is on an active duty AFB, and with badge or not, you will not be carrying unless you are on duty and are called onto base to assist Security Forces. Its the same for the local VA hospital, when I go in uniform to assist VA Police its fine, if I go as a patient, I have to park off property, leave my weapon in the truck. No weapons on the property allowed, LEO or not.

Even with letterhead from my department and county attorney, its a no go. Dumb.

[Flying Pig]

When I was meeting at March AFB in CA, I came to a meeting in my patrol car to do a talk for the cadets and brought all of my SWAT gear.  I called ahead, told them who I was and what I was doing.  I got to the gate and they waived me right on in.  Patrol car, guns, rifle, shotgun and all.

The last time I was on a military base on duty was at a Navy base.  We were going for flight physicals so we could go through the dunker training.  I pulled up in a patrol car, in uniform, weapons, etc.  I met with a guy at the gate and told him what I was doing and was waved right on in.   I was sitting in the waiting room and a navy chief and two navy LE guys walk up and start grilling me on what I was doing, who I was, why I was armed.  Funny thing was none of them were armed, but the two Navy cops had LE badges on their uniforms.  When I told them I had checked in with the gate and also called ahead the day prior along with a name and number of who told me I was cleared to be there they looked a little embarrassed because they had rolled up on me like they were ready for a confrontation.  Of course,   I agreed to secure my duty belt in my patrol car, but they wanted to escort me off base when it was time for me to leave.   When i called them to come and escort me off base when I was done, they told me "We trust you to leave on your own.  have a nice day."   Military LE just isn't used to dealing with armed people coming from off-base. 

[abdsp51]

Military LE just isn't used to dealing with armed people coming from off-base.

Depends on the installation at Travis while I was SF I had a good working relationship with the local LE agencies.

[Flying Pig]

You think getting on base with a weapon is tough as a uniformed LEO.... try talking your way into the Rolls Royce facility in Oakland, CA.  They don't care who or what you are!  I used to go up there for engine parts for the unit.

[Redbird Leader]

My memory could be serving me wrong, but I also thought that BITD, CAP was under the Geneva Convention provision prohibiting the use of firearms.  Of course, the interpretation of the Geneva Convention provisions seem to have to have changed from what I thought I was taught.

Also, having carried a firearm as a Security Police officer for 20+ years, I'm just as happy to NOT carry anymore.  The discussion comes up frequently in my new profession in EMS about carrying a firearm for personal protection due to the increased number of attacks against EMS workers, but I am still against it.  YMMV. 

This is an opinion expressed by the author and not intended to dictate policies or procedures to anyone else.

[stillamarine]

You think getting on base with a weapon is tough as a uniformed LEO.... try talking your way into the Rolls Royce facility in Oakland, CA.  They don't care who or what you are!  I used to go up there for engine parts for the unit.

Forget that. The VA is serious. I went for an appointment and was almost done and the police showed up and escorted to their office to lock up. In uniform. Marked patrol car parked outside their office. Now I take off and drive my personal car.

[Devil Doc]

Ehh, The VA gets mad when I carry my lil Deer Skinner, they freak out over everything.

[a2capt]

Forget that. The VA is serious. I went for an appointment and was almost done and the police showed up and escorted to their office to lock up. In uniform. Marked patrol car parked outside their office. Now I take off and drive my personal car.

I get the gist of what you're saying, but there appears to be a couple words missing.

[Al Sayre]

Ehh, The VA gets mad when I carry my lil Deer Skinner, they freak out over everything.

You'd be paranoid too if you knew that:  At some point in their lives, 90% of the people in the building you work in got paid to kill people and break their stuff, and are probably po'd about something that happened that day...

[a2capt]

Ya know.. I never quite thought of it that way.. but that makes sense.

[stillamarine]

Ehh, The VA gets mad when I carry my lil Deer Skinner, they freak out over everything.

You'd be paranoid too if you knew that:  At some point in their lives, 90% of the people in the building you work in got paid to kill people and break their stuff, and are probably po'd about something that happened that day...

Which is why I refuse to be in uniform with an empty holster.

[GroundHawg]

You think getting on base with a weapon is tough as a uniformed LEO.... try talking your way into the Rolls Royce facility in Oakland, CA.  They don't care who or what you are!  I used to go up there for engine parts for the unit.

Forget that. The VA is serious. I went for an appointment and was almost done and the police showed up and escorted to their office to lock up. In uniform. Marked patrol car parked outside their office. Now I take off and drive my personal car.

Well at least it is not just me they are after. I can have my meds for paranoia lowered...

[Private Investigator]

Sure it's a liability. But personally, I'd rather be a liability than come face-to-face with a charging Grizzly without any means of defense.

Really?   How many bear attacks has CAP had in its life time?   I do know of at lease one incident where one CAP guy shot another CAP guy on accident.

So.....no.

The one incident I know of was during WWII and during the changing of the guards one CAP member fatally shot another CAP member with an 'unloaded' .45 automatic.